Bow down in heavy chop.

[trumpetguy]

SW wind 25KTS and motoring back to the marina with a following sea. We are motoring at 2000 RPM (maybe 5 kts) down wind with full ballast and the bow is literraly plowing into the chop, and wallowing seriously. hard to maintain a straight course. Any attempt to increase speed made the engine (Suzi 70) cavitate, which is something I have never has a problem with.

The only thing I can think of is that I have a 28 gal. Plastimo water bladder installed in the V berth storage area on the Starboard side. I only carry about 12 gallons on day trips, which is about 100 lbs. Would this be enough forward weight to produce such an unbalanced condition? If this is the case I will move the bladder to the space beneath the aft berth.

Comments and advice appreciated.

[Bawgy]

Havent been there yet but I think I would have tried going the speed of the waves and seeing if that would help . Theoretically keeping the boat in the same position as the wave. Maybe they were going to fast in that much wind . I motored home about 4 miles into and abeam Sunday in 30 and it was a wet wild ride . At the last 1/4 mile I was running downwind and tried to keep pace with the waves . It worked quite well and smoothed out considerably

[Chipmaine]

I have found that with a full ballast tank and carrying 4 people that my 26X can be a handfull steering with following seas. I have a 50 Tohatsu and only do 7 or 8 knots most of the time, less when it's dicey. I have a battery just forward of the galley port side but that is it.

[baldbaby2000]

Did you have the daggerboard and rudders down?

[pokerrick1]

Did you have the daggerboard and rudders down?

At higher than 8 or so MPH you're not supposed to have them down, are you

Rick

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

i'll sometimes put my centerboard down just a bit (angled back) when in the situation described...never exceeding 8-10 knots.
all my tanks (12+7 gallons) are in the rear.
i personally believe that in the situation described, ballast is bad.
that is, you want to keep the bow up and try to maintain 8-10 knots.

although every situation is unique.

Bob T.
"DāBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki

[Terry]

At higher than 8 or so MPH you're not supposed to have them down, are you

Rick

I dunno, I was in similar conditions last year but with a SE wind at my back @ 20kts and following sea. (a storm was comming in) I had my engine @ 2500 rpm just to help keep her straight and all fins down. I literally surfed all the way home at an easy 8 kts, sails wing on wing. I don't recall any squirrelyness but the engine did ventilate a few times when the stern lifted. Fastest time I ever covered that stretch.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

In the conditions you describe at an intended speed of 5 knots I would have my centerboard down and one rudder down (Following seas can be hard on them and I keep one up as a spare in case something breaks on the down one). I also would probably have empty ballast. I motor almost exclusively with empty ballast. The only time I have it in under power is going into a steep sea of 4'+ where it becomes hard to keep the hull in the water without the extra weight.

I would not be concerned with occasional higher speeds as you surf down a wave. This can happen even while sailing and the boat can handle the loads. The reason you raise them at high speed under power is not because you will break them (although you could) it's to avoid generating unbalanced lift on the foils that will cause the boat to roll unexpectantly.

I would also look to steer a course slightly at an angle to the troughs. Even if I had to go slightly out of my way from the direct course desired I would take the waves at a slight angle to one side then turn back to the other to get to my destination. If your seas are anything like we get around here, the waves are too tightly spaced to avoid pushing in the bow, particularly with ballast in, if you 'T' the boat into them. The bow of the boat doesn't have a lot of bouyancy. An empty tank would allow it to lift faster though and make things easier.

Even so, following seas are probably the hardest things to deal with in these boats. I don't think you'll find many who can hold a ruler straight course. The boat tends to get tossed to the side as the stern lifts. At least at a slight angle you can feel this and anticipate it in your steering and keep the boat heading where you want it to go.

[Frank C]

... which is about 100 lbs. Would this be enough forward weight to produce such an unbalanced condition? If this is the case I will move the bladder to the space beneath the aft berth.

Comments and advice appreciated.

Surely you intend to do some diagnosis before movng that water tank? You never experienced this in following seas without the tank? The forward tank might provide every bit as much advantage, going upwind, as detriment when downwind (or following seas).

First thing's first ... empty the bladder and try the same conditions again. Following seas are a challenging circumstance. The boat wallows under sail, potentially broaching, because overtaking waves invalidate your rudders. The same "overtaking water flow" also changes the load on your prop and motor, and invalidates some of the motor's thrust. It's no surprise if RPMs change and directional control suffers.

The earlier advice is accurate. Try to match, or slightly exceed, the speed of the following waves. You can't do this when sailing, but it's a big advantage offered by that Suzi-70. Mine is a DF-60, and I too occasionally find strange results in following seas ... rarely ventilation, but that's probably because I've learned the techniques already described. I wouldn't be rushing to move a water tank until figuring out some basics.

[Highlander]

OH come on guy's

Try sailing a in 12ft swells in 20knts winds nows theirs some real excitment she don't broach as much I guess due to her hard chines but you can bury that bow right up to the second window black stripe now theirs a rush, she always comes back up and make shure all the hatches are closed on a 25 deg heel no eng running
As terry said give her sh_t & let her go, their really amazing as to what they can take coarse it helps if you just alittle bit crazy & push them to their limit

Soon to be sailing John

[trumpetguy]

Thanks to all who have replied. Having owned a few offshore fishing boats I am familiar with "surfing" with a following sea. The conditions we had yesterday could not be described as predictable in that we had a very heavy chop, with wave crest extremely tight together. totally unpredictible. Added to this was a strong incoming tide. It seems from several comments that I would have been better off with empty ballast rather than full. I was thinking the opposite but in retrospect it makes sense to try and get the bow on top of the waves.

Frank C. I did go out today and drain the water bag. There was not as much water as I had thought so I will leave it in the bow for now. There seems to be no concensus as to a "best" location for water weight in the M models.

[Ron]

I would tack in such conditions. I agree with Duane Dunn that you want to avoid the seas coming from straight behind you. I would task about 20 degrees or so off the direction of the waves.

Also, I wouldn't think 100 lbs would make such a difference. The boat just doesn't do well in following seas. I like keeping the ballast in for saftey but I mostly sail and put very few hours on the engine.

[James V]

What else to you have in the bow?

Did tilting the motor back (causing the stern to be pushed down and bow up) have any effect?

You can move the water tank under the stern bunk but you should get a custom bladder made.