Anchor away

[captin5317]

Frank
Thanks for the drawing!!!!
Bruce

[eric3a]

..

[Frank C]

Frank: I like the idea! Can hardly wait to try it.
Would it work even better with two anchors at the bow, do you think?

I have used two anchors at the bow, but never on a bridle. I hate using two bow anchors because the wind always clocks. This means the rodes are twisted in the morning. Guess what happens if you also have a couple of rocker-stoppers suspended at the cockpit ????

But, if you want to use twin-anchors, it is better, IMO, to use them with a bridle. That's simply because the bridle helps to damp-down the hull's furious tugging, helping to protect their sets. If I wanted to rig a bridle to twin anchors, I'd thread both rodes through a large stainless ring (at least 2" ID) and then tie-off the bridle to that ring. It's only slightly more effort to thread the rodes (their bitter ends) through the ring, after the anchors have been set and cleated.

I hate using bow & stern anchors in tidal waters, because it's essentially unsafe. If you prevent the hull from following the wind you subject the anchors to TONS of added stress when the winds shift on-beam. You also subject your stern to swell, waves, and harsh weather. This is a non-issue in mild conditions, but when anchoring in the SB channel, we had overnight winds of 30 kts. Pretty risky to lay a stern anchor to that forecast, especially when swell is a reliable 2 to 3 feet.

It's partly a question of whether you trust your primary anchor not to drag, or trust it to reset. I prefer a quality primary with a good reputation to self-reset. My Bulwagga has been flawless up to now, but Chip had a bad experience. I'd also trust a Rocna, or maybe the Rocna clone. I like the idea of a single, quality anchor. But if nasty winds were in the forecast, I'd prolly bridle two of them at the bow.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Wow, not much fun to anchor in an area with 2-3 foot chop. I know lots of good hideaway's in Tampa Bay these days so I can pretty much always find a calm spot even in high winds. Shallow water helps a lot too. Last month I anchored behind Anna Maria Island and for the first time couldn't set my danforth because of too many weeds. After 2-3 random tries, I got smarter and angled the boat to drift into a small bald spot in the weeds (maybe 6-8 feet in diameter) and threw the anchor right there and was able to set it for the night. Again, shallow water was the key...couldn't have done that if you couldn't see the bottom. I always set a stern anchor to stop the swing (I keep one in my fuel locker at all times). If the wind shifts (which would typically be just a small shift), then I can let out a little of the bow rode (to give enough slack) and then pull the stern anchor out, let the boat swing into the new wind direction and then drop the stern anchor again. Frankly, for the most part the wind dies out at night (unless a storm is coming) so I don't get too worried about it. Lucky for my sailing waters, even if the anchor did drag (and I've never had that happen in this area), it would be a soft landing. One of these days, I will try Frank's bridle approach (like if I'm in a more crowded basin for example) but since I'm almost always anchored with my stern towards a beach, just haven't had the need since the stern anchor works so well for getting near enough to a beach where you don't need a dink (advantage MAC).

[kmclemore]

After I drop a Danforth from the bow, I drop a mushroom anchor aft... it won't actually stop the boat from swinging around in a stiff breeze, but it sure slows things down a lot, as it drags pretty slowly across the bottom. Seems to work.

[Frank C]

Wow, not much fun to anchor in an area with 2-3 foot chop.

... I'm almost always anchored with my stern towards a beach, just haven't had the need since the stern anchor works so well for getting near enough to a beach where you don't need a dink (advantage MAC).

The standard for Lake Mead is beaching the bow, but I like the stern-to approach. They use a beach anchor only, and "nest the boats" ... just reading, haven't done it yet.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that different conditions call for alternate techniques. Santa Cruz Island offers only unimproved, primitive anchorages. Depths are sometimes 12 feet, more likely 25 feet, plus the tide at 3 to 6 feet. The Pacific swell is a minimum 2 feet, frequently wrapping around a bluff or point (potentially 25+6+2=33 for calculating scope ... my nylon rode is 250' of Brait). Wind waves are extra, but you can hopefully find shelter that mutes them both. In such circumstances, IMO, it is safer to let the stern swing, and a bridle enables that while damping the oscillations.

My "worst ever" night at anchor was just off some cliffs at Santa Cruz. We were within Prisoners' Harbor but the cliffs were refracting the swell. I hadn't yet discovered the bridling technique. We spent an entire night in that unrelenting 2 foot chop. I didn't sleep more than an hour that night, but didn't want to risk moving. A 50'+ stinkpotter rattled his chain adjacent to us at about midnight, then weighed anchor and departed after a couple of hours. If he was uncomfortable, you can imagine what we endured in a boat half his length.

Of course the real answer is to set anchor well before dark, leaving time to try an alternate spot. In retrospect though, I believe a simple bridle would have (at least) permitted trimming the hull to better address the swell.

[eric3a]

..

[Moe]

On the bitter end of our anchor rodes, I install one of those ski rope floats between a couple of knots. Just in case it gets away.

[Night Sailor]

I've found that in all of my previous boats up to 30 ft in length, and my current X, that a 4lb Danforth anchor with 4 ft. of 1/4 inch chain works fine as a lunch hook or stern anchor with 3 or 5 to 1 scope on a 3/8th or 7/16th inch nylon rode. Never had one drift or unseat. In fact I've been using the same anchor and rode for almost 40 years. Bottoms have always been always, mud, sand or sand with some grass. YMMV.

I have had good luck with wire securing my anchor shackle pins because afer twisting the ends together, I tuck the long twisted pair back into the shackle body so they won't normally be exposed to rip fingers. A secton of clear plastic tubing can also be positioned over the shackle and pin though it might eventually need repositoning from time to time.

If you don't already have a light anchor for a stern hook, a bridle as described above works wonders to keep the boat comfortable.

[PeteC]

Frank C

I tried the bridle that you showed in the sketch and it didn't work for me. I still sailed at anchor just like before. The winds were about 10 mph.

I used a shackle on a line clipped to the anchor road, and run back to the winch. I adjusted the length of the bridle line to several positions.

Jim King was anchored a little bit away from me in his 26M. We were watching the Airshow. It looked like he attached his road to a stanchion a few feet aft of the bow. It looked like he was much steadier than I.

Any idea of what I did wrong?

[c130king]

Pete,

Another piece of advice from Frank that I followed. I have no level of comparison to any other technique because that was the first time I had ever anchored (one of my many firsts on this 9-week trip to Norfolk).

Securing the rode to the aft pulpit stanchion seemed to work okay for me. But I also had a stern anchor (8lb danforth style) thrown out on the windward side (probably about 3:1 scope on the stern anchor). So I actually had two anchors on the windward side and that held the boat pretty steady at about a 40 degree angle to the wind.

Of course we had to pick-up the anchors and move once due to the Coast Guard Auxiallary telling me I was about 100 feet far over the "line" where they were allowing boats to park. And then we had to do it again when we seemed to start sliding a little too close to the boat next too us (we were there first but we were sliding). On this second attempt I had the stern anchor directly aft and it didn't seem to do much since I was slowly sliding backwards.

Third time was the charm and the anchors held really well in the muddy bottom.

Of course I was careful to ensure my bitter ends were tied off. Wouldn't want to pull an Eric . Didn't feel like going swimming in the 7' of water to look for my anchor.

Jim

[Frank C]

... Any idea of what I did wrong?

Sorry Pete, but I'm sure your shackle connection was not a problem. What was the "hunting arc" you experienced?? I've spent an entire afternoon anchored to that aft stanchion (with NO stern anchor) and found it totally successful. Anchored to the pulpit's aft stanchion, my 26X "hunts" in about a 35 to 40 degree arc, just like nearby keelboats. By contrast, when anchored to the bow cleat, my 26X's "tacking arc" is about the same as she tacks upwind ... over 100 degrees. Curiously, that was a day we anchored about 4 hours near Alcatraz to watch the Blue Angels show over SF. In an earlier year, my Mac would swing alarmingly close to nearby keelboats ... very embarrassing!

I've also used a rather complex bridle (to anchor overnight), which provided an adjustable tether to the stern cleat. That worked even better because I could tune the bow's angle to the waves. But that longer, low-set bridle is also more complex to implement on the water. During that session I mused how it would be so much easier to just rig a dockline to the winch ... but didn't have time to test it. The fancy bridle is a complex rig to describe in writing. I've done so in the past, but it seemed that nobody understood the writing.

The simple dockline is easier to implement, handy to adjust, easier to describe, easy to draw, and I felt should perform like my fancy bridle. My only guess at the difference right now ... that going directly to the winch is too high on the hull. I'll try rigging a long dockline to the aft cleat, and I'll let you know. I wanted to have the convenience of rigging to the winch, but going first to an aft cleat, then forward to the winch, makes for lots of spaghetti. I'll update the drawing at the same time. If necessary, maybe I'll need to draw a picture for "the low bridle."

Jim's story, being moved by the CG, is precisely why I hate rigging two anchors.

[argonaut]

Frank.... You Tha Man.

I tried a bridle arrangement this weekend and it -seriously- cuts down the "hunting" of the Mac at anchor. Much more comfortable being anchored now!
Probably only a 10-15 deg swing now, where it felt like 100 deg before!

[Frank C]

Argo ... I'm sure your "100 degrees" isn't an exaggeration. My 26X also swung at least that much. It was dizzying when tied at the bow cleats but it was reduced to ~35* (in about 20 kt. winds).

Please describe your exact bridle rig, and how many anchors you used? (hoping to debug Pete's problem). I haven't been out again to check this, but I'm guessing my "easy bridle" is TOO EASY, because it still permits the anchor to have leverage at the bow, and it might also benefit from leading thru an aft cleat, before the winch. I think I should have drawn the bridle from aft stanchion to winch, leaving slack rode cleated to the bow cleat. (My 26X has always worked when the rode was "slack" to the bow cleat.)

I bought a quad of larger cleats last weekend, 2 at 8-inches, 2 more at 10-inches. (West Marine didn't have 4 matching cleats ... about $130 for all four). One pair is for the forequarter, just at the pulpit's aft stanchion. The other 2 are for the cockpit coaming, just aft the cabin house, right under the "hip rail." I think it's okay to lead a bridle thru the pulpit aft stanchion to the off-side bow cleat for a lunch stop ... just not for anchoring, unattended. The cleats will permit a forequartered anchor.

I need to cut open that flotation locker and get a look at the aft stanchion mounts. Guessing I'll probably want a 3-inch backer-disc under each of the cleats, made from 1/2-inch plywood.

[Frank C]

CONSUMER WARNING: Do not deal with MontanaCinch.com

Following Jeff Stagg's great hint, a couple weeks back I looked up Montana Cinch on Google and ordered four of their widgets, @ ~ $10 each. Lately, I regularly order stuff by mailorder without even a second thought. I didn't even phone them, just used their web-order page & paid using Paypal.

After 2 days without any feedback I phoned Montana Cinch - phone disconnected~! Sent them email & it bounced~! So, their web-order page is working and Paypal is sending them money, but just a black hole thereafter. I will advise here after resolution.
I immediately filed a protest with Paypal, currently pending. I suspect I'm out that forty bucks!

. . . Rigging a bridle is especially easy with a Montana cinch (Jeff Stagg's hint) on your anchor rode about 7 feet out from the bow cleat. All chain rode? ... then just tie the bridle into a link. To rig a bridle, see below.