http://www.parkerdawson.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=301
Shipwreck..
Shipwreck..
I posted this URL buried deep in the "bluewater" thread. These pictures may have more general interest. They were taken last February over a period of 4 days. We had sailed Costa on the Sea Of Cortez for 15 years. One lapse into carelessness and a dose of bad judgment and here is the sad result..
http://www.parkerdawson.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=301
http://www.parkerdawson.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=301
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richandlori
- Admiral
- Posts: 1695
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:08 pm
- Location: Living Aboard in Morro Bay, CA
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This is what happens when you get a little careless. We had sailed Costa for 15 years in these waters. What you see in these pictures occurred between 9pm and 11pm one evening in February. At 8pm she was resting comfortably at anchor in a sheltered bay, 50 yards off the beach.Then the wind shifted from south to NW (a frontal passage) leaving her exposed. Surf conditions changed so rapidly we could not use the dinghy to get back out to her..The bow cleats tore out and in less than a minute she was on the rocks..
The incriminating details.. I KNEW of the approaching front.. Earlier in the day we had tried to move her to a more protected anchorage. The wind was 20-25 knots out of the south, the direction I needed to go. Seas were running 5 to 8 feet, a VERY uncomfortable slog. I had about 4 miles to travel. Costa's 10hp Yanmar spinning a 11X6 two-blade prop could BARELY make headway, MAYBE 1 knot SOG. We had guests at our house (1/2 mile up the beach from where the pictures were taken) and I did not want to abandon them for 4-5 hours, so I abandoned the attempt and returned to the small bay that provided GOOD protection in a south wind. After it got dark, and a couple of drinks had been enjoyed, the predicted front DID arrive, after dark, with savage fury. The wind changed direction in less than half an hour, The ocean, whip-sawed by the 180 degree wind change, a BIG south swell running, stood itself up, turned itself around and came crashing into bay, which offered no protection from W-NW wind and sea..We watched in horror with a powerful flashlight as our beloved Costa met her doom. The picture with Ginny (my wife) looking into the cockpit was taken around 8am the next morning at LOW tide..
We considered a salvage and repair attempt, but the remote location and severe damage sustained made recovery impractical.
It is not easy for me to post this. I'm not proud of it, and the hurt is still there..
The incriminating details.. I KNEW of the approaching front.. Earlier in the day we had tried to move her to a more protected anchorage. The wind was 20-25 knots out of the south, the direction I needed to go. Seas were running 5 to 8 feet, a VERY uncomfortable slog. I had about 4 miles to travel. Costa's 10hp Yanmar spinning a 11X6 two-blade prop could BARELY make headway, MAYBE 1 knot SOG. We had guests at our house (1/2 mile up the beach from where the pictures were taken) and I did not want to abandon them for 4-5 hours, so I abandoned the attempt and returned to the small bay that provided GOOD protection in a south wind. After it got dark, and a couple of drinks had been enjoyed, the predicted front DID arrive, after dark, with savage fury. The wind changed direction in less than half an hour, The ocean, whip-sawed by the 180 degree wind change, a BIG south swell running, stood itself up, turned itself around and came crashing into bay, which offered no protection from W-NW wind and sea..We watched in horror with a powerful flashlight as our beloved Costa met her doom. The picture with Ginny (my wife) looking into the cockpit was taken around 8am the next morning at LOW tide..
We considered a salvage and repair attempt, but the remote location and severe damage sustained made recovery impractical.
It is not easy for me to post this. I'm not proud of it, and the hurt is still there..
The sea does not forgive mistakes..Here is Costa in happier times..
http://www.parkerdawson.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=172
http://www.parkerdawson.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=172
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NiceAft
- Admiral
- Posts: 6698
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:28 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk
I did not spend much time in that thread, so I did not remember that you had started it.
I don't do much ocean sailing with NiceAft. Just once or twice a year for a day, and then I am only about five miles off shore. The only comparison I have is that I motored overnight from NYC to Ocean City NJ (about 90 miles) several years ago on a 38'? Hunter. The Mac is like a cork compared to the Hunter. I just don't see it as the boat I would want if Ocean sailing was my intended use. There are others here who feel otherwise. Then there is MadMike who has sailed (from what I have read) his Mac for extended trips in numerous ocean waters. He is obviously a sailor with skills far beyond mine.
When someone says "Blue Water Boat", I think extended periods of time away from sight of land. Is that what you mean
Ray
I don't do much ocean sailing with NiceAft. Just once or twice a year for a day, and then I am only about five miles off shore. The only comparison I have is that I motored overnight from NYC to Ocean City NJ (about 90 miles) several years ago on a 38'? Hunter. The Mac is like a cork compared to the Hunter. I just don't see it as the boat I would want if Ocean sailing was my intended use. There are others here who feel otherwise. Then there is MadMike who has sailed (from what I have read) his Mac for extended trips in numerous ocean waters. He is obviously a sailor with skills far beyond mine.
When someone says "Blue Water Boat", I think extended periods of time away from sight of land. Is that what you mean
Ray
"When someone says "Blue Water Boat", I think extended periods of time away from sight of land. Is that what you mean Question "
Not really..That's Ocean Cruising, a completely different animal. Once a year maybe, we like to sail across to the Baja peninsula, a distance of 80 miles. Sailing time for this passage is usually 14 to 18 hours, depending on the wind. The Sea Of Cortez is sheltered from the Pacific swells, so sailing conditions are more like a big lake. But it's 1200 miles long, so when the wind is right, there is plenty of fetch for large swells to develop. Spring and summer thunder storms can add to the fun. I call a boat that can safely handle this crossing a "Bluewater Boat".
Over the years I have learned that a boats MOTION is what will limit the amount of time people are willing to stay aboard. The boat can be safe and secure, the crew in no danger, but if they are being tossed around violently, hanging on for dear life, rockin' & rollin', the pleasant cruise quickly becomes a nightmare of sea-sickness and fatigue that few care to repeat. Perfectly sound and sea-worthy boats have been abandoned at sea when their crew got on the radio and called "Mayday" because they couldn't take it anymore.
Properly equipped and prepared Mac's seem to be able to stand up to the challenge I described above if the crew can withstand the motion a flat-bottomed, lightweight hull is going to deliver..With their bellies full of water, they might not be as bad as I think they might be..
Not really..That's Ocean Cruising, a completely different animal. Once a year maybe, we like to sail across to the Baja peninsula, a distance of 80 miles. Sailing time for this passage is usually 14 to 18 hours, depending on the wind. The Sea Of Cortez is sheltered from the Pacific swells, so sailing conditions are more like a big lake. But it's 1200 miles long, so when the wind is right, there is plenty of fetch for large swells to develop. Spring and summer thunder storms can add to the fun. I call a boat that can safely handle this crossing a "Bluewater Boat".
Over the years I have learned that a boats MOTION is what will limit the amount of time people are willing to stay aboard. The boat can be safe and secure, the crew in no danger, but if they are being tossed around violently, hanging on for dear life, rockin' & rollin', the pleasant cruise quickly becomes a nightmare of sea-sickness and fatigue that few care to repeat. Perfectly sound and sea-worthy boats have been abandoned at sea when their crew got on the radio and called "Mayday" because they couldn't take it anymore.
Properly equipped and prepared Mac's seem to be able to stand up to the challenge I described above if the crew can withstand the motion a flat-bottomed, lightweight hull is going to deliver..With their bellies full of water, they might not be as bad as I think they might be..
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Frank C
Perhaps one of the few scenarios in which a Mac 26 (w/ 50 hp) would excel. Assuming you found a way from shore to the mooring, it would have been a half-hour (7 kn, vmg) to the second anchorage. Granting though, it would have been very tough to tow the dink in those conditions, but I guess that would have been a problem in either case.Fairwinds wrote:...to a more protected anchorage. The wind was 20-25 knots out of the south, the direction I needed to go. Seas were running 5 to 8 feet, a VERY uncomfortable slog. I had about 4 miles to travel. Costa's 10hp Yanmar spinning a 11X6 two-blade prop could BARELY make headway, MAYBE 1 knot SOG...
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richandlori
- Admiral
- Posts: 1695
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:08 pm
- Location: Living Aboard in Morro Bay, CA
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NiceAft
- Admiral
- Posts: 6698
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:28 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk
Fairwinds,
According to your description of blue water boat, the Mac, in my opinion is capable of what you are looking for. There is however testimony in the web site, that in white cap situations she is a wet boat! This I have experienced.
It may be of interest for you to look up some of the stories of those who have either gone on their own from Florida to the Bahamas, or who went with the Conch Cruisers. They all had to cross the Gulf Stream. I understand that water is rough. This may be of interest for you to investigate.
Ray
According to your description of blue water boat, the Mac, in my opinion is capable of what you are looking for. There is however testimony in the web site, that in white cap situations she is a wet boat! This I have experienced.
It may be of interest for you to look up some of the stories of those who have either gone on their own from Florida to the Bahamas, or who went with the Conch Cruisers. They all had to cross the Gulf Stream. I understand that water is rough. This may be of interest for you to investigate.
Ray
Here you go Rich..
http://www.parkerdawson.com/gallery/mai ... e%5CDawson
http://www.parkerdawson.com/topic.asp?T ... hichpage=1
NiceAft, I have indeed read some of the logs of the Conch Cruisers. By "Buddy Boating" they can mitigate most of the risk of open-water cruising out on The Stream. We do the same thing in Mexico. Few cruisers "go it alone", but with careful planning and patience, a long solo passage can be safely made.
http://www.parkerdawson.com/gallery/mai ... e%5CDawson
http://www.parkerdawson.com/topic.asp?T ... hichpage=1
NiceAft, I have indeed read some of the logs of the Conch Cruisers. By "Buddy Boating" they can mitigate most of the risk of open-water cruising out on The Stream. We do the same thing in Mexico. Few cruisers "go it alone", but with careful planning and patience, a long solo passage can be safely made.
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Chinook
- Admiral
- Posts: 1730
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:20 pm
- Location: LeavenworthWA 2002 26x, Suzuki DF60A
Hi Fairwinds,
We've taken our 26X across the Stream to the Bahamas, and also up the Inside Passage as far as Glacier Bay. The Sea of Cortez is on our list of places we'd like to explore, possibly a year from now. One of my big questions involves insurance. The Mac is right on the bubble between boat insurance and yacht insurance. We started out with Boat US, and were covered by them when we went to the Bahamas. However, they declined to cover the trip to Alaska. They were hung up on our being less than 28 feet long, and lacking radar. We shifted to a boat insurance policy with Safeco. It's excellent coverage, good for all of the lower 48 states plus BC and southeast Alaska, and out 75 miles. They won't cover the Sea of Cortez however. Any suggestions for boat or yacht insurance for a Macgregor 26X on the Sea of Cortez?
We've taken our 26X across the Stream to the Bahamas, and also up the Inside Passage as far as Glacier Bay. The Sea of Cortez is on our list of places we'd like to explore, possibly a year from now. One of my big questions involves insurance. The Mac is right on the bubble between boat insurance and yacht insurance. We started out with Boat US, and were covered by them when we went to the Bahamas. However, they declined to cover the trip to Alaska. They were hung up on our being less than 28 feet long, and lacking radar. We shifted to a boat insurance policy with Safeco. It's excellent coverage, good for all of the lower 48 states plus BC and southeast Alaska, and out 75 miles. They won't cover the Sea of Cortez however. Any suggestions for boat or yacht insurance for a Macgregor 26X on the Sea of Cortez?
Chinook, You can easily buy the insurance in Mexico..You almost have to. U.S. insurance companies don't (can't) do business in Mexico. Liability insurance is inexpensive and available at any Marina. (they require you have it). If you want to insure the boat against loss, that can be tricky but it CAN be done. Sometimes by making it a rider to your Mexican CAR insurance. That will cover it while trailering too. To be truthful, the vast majority of boats in Mexico are "self-insured". Mine was...Where do you think you will launch?
Is your boat basically stock? What annoys you the MOST?
Frank, yes indeed, if I could do it again..Having 40 or 50 hp available would have resulted in a different outcome..I forgot to mention our "dinghy" that day was a 14' aluminum skiff. And we were trying to tow it when I gave up. Had I jettisoned the dinghy and let it wash up on the beach where friends could have recovered and secured it, and proceeded to the safe anchorage and swam ashore, unpleasant but not impossible in February, THAT was the right decision. But I decided to take a chance on the weather, a bet that I lost. I'm not into guilt trips. So you lick your wounds, learn, and move on..But we don't want to do that again..
Is your boat basically stock? What annoys you the MOST?
Frank, yes indeed, if I could do it again..Having 40 or 50 hp available would have resulted in a different outcome..I forgot to mention our "dinghy" that day was a 14' aluminum skiff. And we were trying to tow it when I gave up. Had I jettisoned the dinghy and let it wash up on the beach where friends could have recovered and secured it, and proceeded to the safe anchorage and swam ashore, unpleasant but not impossible in February, THAT was the right decision. But I decided to take a chance on the weather, a bet that I lost. I'm not into guilt trips. So you lick your wounds, learn, and move on..But we don't want to do that again..