Starboard Winch Woes

[Navy DOC]

I bought my boat new a year and a half ago and noticed that the starboard winch apears to have been installed wrong.

Both winches rotate in the same direction, which works great on the port side, but causes me grief on the starboard side, as there is no way to correctly cleat off the genoa sheet.

Can I fix this?

-Mike

[Frank C]

All winches rotate clockwise, and lock when pulled counter-clockwise.
If you wrap your starboard sheet clockwise around the winch, doesn't that solve your problem?

[Navy DOC]

Maybe I'm obtuse, but I know that on one side of the boat the sheet goes around the winch a couple or wraps and then leads to the cam cleats cleanly, while on the other side, the tailing end of the sheet has to cross over the working end to be cleated off. This is awkward, and I figured if the winch could be reversed I wouldn't have the problem....

-Mike

[eric3a]

..

[Frank C]

... If I understand your problem correctly, your cleat is in front of the winch. that's your problem. With cleats behind it shouldn't be a problem that both winches are "normal" clockwise ones. Cleats in front of a winch are rather impractical anyway.

Unless I misunderstand "in front of" I'd say no, that's not the problem. All of Roger's boats have jib cleats aft of the winches, with the cleats slightly inboard of the winches, closer to the companionway.

The port winch is wrapped (from the bow) clockwise and cleated inboard (to starboard) on the final wrap, all wraps being 360-degrees. For the stb winch the first wrap is identical, from the bow, but the last wrap must be 390 degrees to reach the inboard cleat ... the only difference that I can see is that added 30 degrees on the last wrap.

Still not sure what causes Doc's dilemma, tailing "... over the working end to be cleated off." The "tail wrap" is above the load wrap on both winches, so ...

[eric3a]

..

[David Mellon]

I understand the issue, I would prefer a counter-clockwise wench on the starboard side as well. When I go to pull the Jenny sheet into the cam cleat, I have to push down the line leading into the wench. The Grand Admiral finds this exceedingly difficult, I will raise the cam cleat to correct the issue. Cheaper than a reverse wench I am sure.

[Frank C]

. . . Cheaper than a reverse wench I am sure.

Without doubt, a reverse winch would be very expensive, though vastly less costly than a reverse wench.
However, not sure a reverse wench couldn't convincingly solve the problem, whenever cost is no object~!

[David Mellon]

What can I say, I prefer wenches, I don't judge others, that's just me

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

I've used my starboard winch to tighten up my hammock on the foredeck, without a problem, except for the noise it makes.
I don't use my winches to tighten my sheets.
I do a quick S-turn into the wind, sheet in, and head off.
I tack with my sheets aft to the helm.

[argonaut]

You can add height to the camcleats to make cleating easier by putting the cleat directly in line with the sheet as it comes off the winch.
Harken makes block inserts in straight and angled varieties.
Use longer screws and the same holes.

Harken parts from Annapolis Performance

[Navy DOC]

I appreciate everyone's comments. I think I'll look into raising the cam cleats a bit, as the problem is, in fact as David states, that the tailing end has to be forced down ontop of the working end in order to be cleated.

Bill - I've done the S turn thing before, but it tends to make some of the passengers (aged 2 and 4) somewhat uneasy when the boat comes off the wind, staightens up and then suddenly tips again. They seem to be more at ease when there is a steady heel.

Thanks again.

-Mike

[Frank C]

I appreciate everyone's comments. I think I'll look into raising the cam cleats a bit, as the problem is, in fact as David states, that the tailing end has to be forced down ontop of the working end in order to be cleated.

Mike,

In both cases, port and starboard winches, the tail is wound above the load. Using 3 wraps for security, both tails have a good distance down to the factory cleat.

It might be worthwhile, next time aboard, to look closely and determine why the port/stbd winches seem to behave differently. Is it the extra wrapping distance (30? degrees) or as argo observes, just the placement of the stbd cleat ? The answer might dictate your solution.

[c130king]

Mike,

I have cam cleats on risers just aft of my winches to keep the tailing end above the working end.

Seem to work just fine except if I am sitting up on the high side and forward of the steering column, which I usually am as I run the sheets and let whoever is sailing with me do the steering, the angle of the line coming through the cleat sometimes is such that it is hard to pull line through it (or pop it out of the cleat to ease/release the sheet)...especially when I have the genny sheeted in tight.

If I am sitting further aft there is no problem, even if on the opposite side.

Next time I sail in strong winds I plan on trying something I saw in another thread and that is to take the working sheet around the leeward winch, across the cabin opening to the windward winch and then feed it through the windward cleat. Seems like that would make sheeting much easier when heeled over and sitting on the high side, especially forward of the steering column.

It might be possible to adjust the angle of the cleats ahead of time so you don't have this issue.

I will take some pictures this weekend when I go out.

BTW this mod was made by the PO and not by me. In fact I did not even realize this was a mod until I read this thread and realized this was not standard.

Jim

[Navy DOC]

Frank,

The issue is the extra 30 degree turn that the line has to make on the starboard side. On the port side, the tailing end doesn't cross the working end. If you draw it out on a piece of paper, you will see the problem (I had to do this when I made the original post).

The key to the whole thing is that the way the boat is rigged, the genoa sheet leads aft of the winch, through a flexi block at approximately the steering column (or further aft), and then forward again. The sheet approaches the winch from below, and the location of the cleat is such that the working end is significantly higher than the level of the cleats.

If the sheets were a direct lead to the winch (no 180 degree reversal) as is the case on the other boats I've sailed on, this wouldn't be an issue, and I'll bet it isn't an issue with guys that sail with a jib instead of a genny, since the jib tracks are forward of the winches. Raising the cleat will allow the tailing end to clear the working line.

Next time I sail in strong winds I plan on trying something I saw in another thread and that is to take the working sheet around the leeward winch, across the cabin opening to the windward winch and then feed it through the windward cleat. Seems like that would make sheeting much easier when heeled over and sitting on the high side, especially forward of the steering column.

This is an interesting idea and I might try it, despit the annoyance of having the line cross over the hatch.

-Mike