Problem raising the mainsail

[c130king]

Took the out for sail #5 today. Beautiful day on the St. John's River in Jacksonville (no clouds, 60 degrees, 5-8 knots of wind...good for beginners like me ).

Only the second time I have gotten the mainsail up with no reefs and the genoa unfurled. It was great and I continue to learn more and more everytime I go out.

However, I continue to have 2 problems that were not apparent to me when the PO showed me how to put up the sails. The first is the Genny will not completely unfurl. There are still about 3-4 wraps of the Genny on the furler but the furling drum is so full of furling line that it will not turn anymore. I just cleated and secured the furling line and went with it. Also, could not get the Genny to completely furl when coming in for the day. Still had about 2-3 feet of sail out when the furling line was completely unwound. This evening I did a search and found a thread from Aug 2005 with some suggestions I will try next time. I think I did not keep enough tension on the furling line when deploying the Genny and thus the furling line was not tightly wound on the drum. And I probably kept too much tension on the Genny sheets when furling thus I still had some sail left when complete (Genny rolled up too tight). Minor problems that I should be able to fix. (Thanks to Chip for his posts on this subject from back in 2005 ).

However, the second issue I cannot find a thread on. I can't get the mainsail all the way up to the top of the mast. It sure looks like there is about 12 more inches the sail needs to go up but I can't get anything more out of the halyard. I have lines led aft and have sail slugs. I did spray some sailkote on the slugs to see if that would help but didn't seem to fix the problem. I have never taken the sail off the mast (I trailer with the boom connected...other posts about that a month ago...works well) so I haven't looked real closely at my slugs or the groove the slugs travel in. I don't have a downhaul so the luff of the sail is a little loose/saggy.

Can't see any problems with the halyard and the blocks...hard to see the block at the top of the mast but it looks okay. I wonder if there could be something in the groove that the top slug "hangs up" on when raising the sail that keeps the sail from going all the way up. The bottom slugs seem to be able to move up/down freely (at least the ones I can reach).

Anyone have any thoughts on what might be wrong?

I plan to trailer the boat up to my house in Georgia sometime in Feb probably to spend some time taking the sail and mast apart (and clean both...they need it) but I hope I can find a solution to the mainsail problem before then.

Hope everyone had a Fantastic Christmas and will have a Great New Year! Thanks to all who contribute to this awesome website.

Thanks,
Jim

[captin5317]

I did have an issue similar to your in reference to raising my main. Try losening your boom end line (out haul). If the out haul is too tight the main will not go up all the way. Let it loose cmpletely and after your main is raised fully re-adjust your boom end line (out haul).
bruce

[NiceAft]

Jim,

Have you tried a "truckers knot" on the mainsail halyard? My lines don't go aft, I tie off at the base of the mast, but without the "truckers knot" I would not be able to get the sail fully raised. Is this something not needed when your lines run aft?

Ray

[Craig LaForce]

For the mainsail, make sure that the main sheet and the boom vang are completely released before beginning the hoist. Otherwise they will get tight and prevent the full hoist.

For the genny, might need to get a smaller diameter furler line so that more will fit on the drum. Mine is pretty small line.

Hope that helps a bit.

[Catigale]

IF you have that big beautiful 150 genny you will find the FF2 just fits the furler line necessary to roll it up.

Ive found if you have more than 6 wraps of furler line on the drum with the genny out you will jam up when you furl in....check that at dock of course.

YOu do want some tension on the sail when you furl in so that it stays on the furler while docked, if it is loose a decent wind will knock it off the furler...BTDT..

[Andy26M]

After 20+ years of sailing, I still find myself occasionally forgetting to fully release the vang and running into this problem ...

- Andy

[Catigale]

Reflecting - that truckers knot (a 2:1 mechanical advantage) is good for getting good halyard tension but if you cant get 12 inches of sail up I would find the root cause before I applied 'more force' to solve this problem...something is more likely to break than solve your problem nicely and Dr Murphy will ensure it will be the most expensive thing you can think of , of course.

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

I can't get the mainsail all the way up to the top of the mast.

Sometimes the obvious things are overlooked.
I had a customer who said he was having basically the same problem. He sent me a picture of the top of the mainsail. There were about four twists in the halyard.
Be sure there are no twists in the halyard.
Are you pointing directly into the wind?

[c130king]

All,

Thanks for the thoughts.

I will definitely look for halyard twist next time. Now that I think about it the halyard is pretty "twisty". And I have always (the 5 times I have done this) motored into the wind at a slow speed while hoisting the main.

I do not think a trucker's hitch would do much good. I have gone up to the mast and put a lot of weight on the halyard hoping I could get a few more inches if I pulled upstream of the turning block. It was no help. Was afraid to pull any harder.

I know the vang was loose. I do have the main sheet hauled in to keep the boom from flying around while raising the main. So I will also keep that in mind next time I go out. But the sail is really flopping around as it goes up so it seems plenty "loose".

Don't have an outhaul so no problem with that. I am thinking of adding a downhaul someday.

Still learning more and more every day.

Thanks again,
Jim

[Frank C]

Jim,

Your description seems to rule this out. Still many here have described a problem getting the mainsail taut. Turned out that luff rope shrinkage caused the rope to be fully taut, but still leaving the mainsail luff baggy.
Search on [luff rope], and be sure to click the All Terms button.

[parrothead]

Jim,

I would also advise that you check to see if the mainsail's luff rope has been "set free" [assuming that you have sail slugs]. Cutting the stitching on mine resulted in several inches more sail height when the main was only one season old.

You may not think of it as an "outhaul", but you must have some way of securing the clew of the main to the end of the boom. As was noted, this should not be tightened until after the main has been raised.

Something else to consider, if you don't currently have one, is a topping lift -- a line coming down from the top of the mast to the end of the boom that will support the weight of the boom while the sail is being raised [another option would be a "boomkicker"]. An adjustable topping lift can also be used to support the weight of the main in light winds, creating more "shape", and hence more power, than would otherwise be the case.

[delevi]

Jim,

I think you simply need to uncleat your main sheet & vang. Even with the main flapping around, the mainsheet while cleated will prevent your sail from full hoist, as would the vang. Also, if you have a topping lift, slack it off several inches prior to hoisting. The sail should be holding the boom up while hoisted, not the topping lift. Be sure the halyard and sail aren't getting caught on anything.

As for your genoa, I would suggest furling in so that you completely empty the furling drum (no wraps of line at all.) Then check your genoa sheets and make sure you have exactly two wraps around the furled sail. (sheets wrapping around furled sail) If you have more or less, you can pull the sheets out and wind or unwind until you get exactly two wraps. This setup will allow for a good wrap and enough room in your drum for a full unfurl. This should likely solve your problem. If not, your line may be too thick. The drum is desgined for 3/16" line. If yours is thicker, change to 3/16.

Good luck & have fun!

Leon

[c130king]

Frank, Parrothead and Leon,

Thanks.

Some more input to this situation. I do have a topping lift installed by the PO. It is not adjustable (at least not built to be easily adjustable). It is just a thin line attached to the top of the mast and the end of the boom. It is fixed length and never removed (I never remove the boom from the mast...even when I trailer).

I kinda/sorta understand what you guys are talking about with the luff rope. I read the other threads on that topic. I don't "think" that is a problem because I can tell that I have about 12 inches of luff at the bottom of the sail sitting there all baggy and loose. I can lift that 12 inches up, it slides freely in the groove. Neither the bolt rope nor luff seemed tight. Nothing is tight except the halyard...and I presume the top portion of the sail.

I did not notice any adjustment on the outhaul. I will look at it more closely when I next go see the boat. The end of the boom is already pretty "congested" with the lazy jack line, the topping lift knot, and the jiffy reef line and blocks. The little cleat on the end of the boom is completely buried when I have the lazy jacks up (probably 10-15' of line when I pull the lazy jacks up in place for sailing).

I think the furler will be an easy fix if I just follow all the advice I have recieved. I believe the line is already 3/16". It seems pretty thin to me...at least compared to the halyard and the DB line which are all run to the cockpit on the starboard side.

Does the learning curve ever flatten out a little?...my brain is starting to hurt!

I hope to go sailing this weekend. My brother and his family along with my parents are coming to visit for the New Years celebration (and my birthday...tomorrow). I am hoping the weather cooperates so I can take my brother and my Dad down to Jacksonville and out on the boat. I will try all these things that have been mentioned and look more closely at the other things.

Thanks again for all the help.

Happy New Year!

Jim

[Catigale]

Jim - some of the sailors here have 'decored the 3/16 furler line to allow some more room in the drum for the big genny. I have found you can get it to work ok with the 3/16 line following the 5 wrap rule above. It also helps if you have a snap shackle on your genny sheets so that if you do have a furling problem you can deal with it quickly without getting the sheets all jammed up..

[NiceAft]

And remember to post what the problem actually was! You now have people all over the Mac world following this serial of intrigue

Is it a twisted Halyard Were the main sheet & boom vang completely released Was there luff rope shrinkage, and did he need to cut the stitching on the mainsail's luff rope

Tune in next week to find out

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Ray