Ok everyone, this is my first post to the forum. I have been lurking as a guest for a number of months. I sold my family camper this fall with the intension of buying a boat the family can spend weekend on, and maybe do a longer run once in a while. I have grown up on the water on the West Coast, and have always power boated. I have also read half a bookshelf of non-fiction sailing adventure books with a real dream of doing it one day.
I have looked at moorage costs, power v/s sail, ownership costs on both types of boat, and am quite pleased with the flexabilty the Mac offers.
I was looking at new, but the price point is outside of the reach of this young family. I am now looking at a 2002 Mac X. I am going to arrange a viewing, and have looked at various images of the vessel sent to me by the owner. It looks clean and has lines run aft, roller furling, dual batts, pressure water, and extra water bags and fuel tanks.
What would be the key points and things I should look at before purchasing. I know how cosmetics can detract from the real things a new buyer should be looking for, and come to you seasoned owners for assistance. I understand that this is the year prior to the 03 with the hull, and sail mods.
Any and all inside information greatly appreciated.
Thank You
Newbie Soon to Purchase - Hints?
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James V
- Admiral
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:33 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Key West, Fl USA, 26M 06, Merc 50hp BF "LYNX"
Go to West Marine web site and print off their survey and winterizing checklist. This will cover just about every thing. Run a check to make sure that the boat is not stollen.
If you are buying from the USA and taking into Canada, Check to see what duties and taxes you have to pay.
Have the motor check out by a Pro. Make sure you tell him if it has been sitting for a more than 3 months.
Check the swing keel very well.
Do not be supprise if you do not find much wrong.
Ask and get in writing if the owner know of anything major wrong with the boat. In the USA he is required to tell you.
Good luck.
If you are buying from the USA and taking into Canada, Check to see what duties and taxes you have to pay.
Have the motor check out by a Pro. Make sure you tell him if it has been sitting for a more than 3 months.
Check the swing keel very well.
Do not be supprise if you do not find much wrong.
Ask and get in writing if the owner know of anything major wrong with the boat. In the USA he is required to tell you.
Good luck.
I bought my Mac 26X in the US and trailered it back. Saved considerably on canadian prices even after paying taxes, gas, accomodation etc. There is no import duty on MacGregors as they are made in US.
If you want to import this is a good web-site for all the information needed in order to import.
http://boating.ncf.ca/buy-usa.html
Jim
If you want to import this is a good web-site for all the information needed in order to import.
http://boating.ncf.ca/buy-usa.html
Jim
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Frank C
I bought mine new since I couldn't find one used with a motor I was willing to accept. That was 7 years back when old-tech 2-strokes were the rule ... should be easier now. If I was to start now, I'd concentrate (for a 26X) on these issues at the dock or on trailer:
If you like what's on the trailer, then you can ask for a float-test but be prepared to hear, "No." Choice is yours, but I wouldn't pass on a good Mac-X ... there isn't one w/compatible outboard around every corner. If you can, you'll want to check the outboard for starting, stalling, reliability, smoothness, speed, etc. Learn as much possible about the sailing rig, hoist sails to see them in action, watch the rigging for possible future adjustments - mostly confirming the boat's condition matches what you've already observed. Does the centerboard deploy & retract okay? Ballast tank working? All necessary blocks and lines aboard? If the boat floats, I feel that none of these are deal killers. I mentioned I would search for 26X since that's the interior that I prefer. If you want a 26M, there are some added rigging considerations ... stand by for info from others.
Also, check out this recent & related thread for more hints on used Macs. You can also search on the terms "change list" - all terms - to find discussions of the factory upgrades during X production.
- 1. Can I accept the outboard, or discount it to zero? I'd want 4-stroke.
2. How is the outboard & throttle installation, neat & professional?
2a. Start it on earmuffs, just to hear & feel it ... all seems good?
3. How pro-looking are the owner-mods, w/particular focus on thru-deck mods.
4. How is the steering response, light & smooth, solid linkages?
5. Are the rudder brackets stainless or AU, any cracks or bends?
6. Are bilges dry and clean? Moldy or mildewed?
If you like what's on the trailer, then you can ask for a float-test but be prepared to hear, "No." Choice is yours, but I wouldn't pass on a good Mac-X ... there isn't one w/compatible outboard around every corner. If you can, you'll want to check the outboard for starting, stalling, reliability, smoothness, speed, etc. Learn as much possible about the sailing rig, hoist sails to see them in action, watch the rigging for possible future adjustments - mostly confirming the boat's condition matches what you've already observed. Does the centerboard deploy & retract okay? Ballast tank working? All necessary blocks and lines aboard? If the boat floats, I feel that none of these are deal killers. I mentioned I would search for 26X since that's the interior that I prefer. If you want a 26M, there are some added rigging considerations ... stand by for info from others.
Also, check out this recent & related thread for more hints on used Macs. You can also search on the terms "change list" - all terms - to find discussions of the factory upgrades during X production.
Thank you all for the great information and advice. As with Frank, I too am more partial to the X layout. Two adults and two pre teen kids will need a bit more room up top.
The original outboard was "borrowed" and never returned by some unscrupulous theives in early 2005. The new engine is a 2005 Honda 50 4-stroke with (according to original owner) less than 50 hours use.
There have been some interior upgrades by the looks of the images I have seen. Curtains and a few other small things. I will have a close look when I view in person.
In the mean time I will read the related threads and survey checklist outlined in the appreciated responses.
Regards,
Doug
The original outboard was "borrowed" and never returned by some unscrupulous theives in early 2005. The new engine is a 2005 Honda 50 4-stroke with (according to original owner) less than 50 hours use.
There have been some interior upgrades by the looks of the images I have seen. Curtains and a few other small things. I will have a close look when I view in person.
In the mean time I will read the related threads and survey checklist outlined in the appreciated responses.
Regards,
Doug
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Frank C
One more thought ... an outboard's reliability is the single greatest enhancement - or detriment - to enjoyable boating.
I'm so often in tight quarters that a stalling motor would create the epitome of frustration, during an outing that was intended to generate the opposite. I feel fortunate that, except for my failure to provide fuel, my Suzuki has never stalled. I'd want a sea trial simply for this one issue. A stumbling and stalling outboard is worse than worthless, to me. I'd rather have none, spend the bucks for a new one, then hold the dealer responsible. This is the single greatest risk, methinks, in buying a used boat.
SO ... altering my earlier advice, I'd push very hard for a sea trial. I suppose some may use the outboard so rarely that it is a lesser issue ... choose your own camp.
I'm so often in tight quarters that a stalling motor would create the epitome of frustration, during an outing that was intended to generate the opposite. I feel fortunate that, except for my failure to provide fuel, my Suzuki has never stalled. I'd want a sea trial simply for this one issue. A stumbling and stalling outboard is worse than worthless, to me. I'd rather have none, spend the bucks for a new one, then hold the dealer responsible. This is the single greatest risk, methinks, in buying a used boat.
SO ... altering my earlier advice, I'd push very hard for a sea trial. I suppose some may use the outboard so rarely that it is a lesser issue ... choose your own camp.
The current owner offered a sea trial before I asked. 
He stated he has used her in winter months as he enjoyed just getting away sometimes. Bad life circumstances are apparently the reason for the sale. We have a bit of a mild climate and lots of close islands here on the coast of BC, so this can be done.
I will pay close attention the the operation of the outboard. I used to guide for salmon years ago, and fished in some very challenging waters. I understand how a engine stall can wreak havoc during a tense period of navigational concentration...
I will let you all know what comes of this early in the new year.
Doug
He stated he has used her in winter months as he enjoyed just getting away sometimes. Bad life circumstances are apparently the reason for the sale. We have a bit of a mild climate and lots of close islands here on the coast of BC, so this can be done.I will pay close attention the the operation of the outboard. I used to guide for salmon years ago, and fished in some very challenging waters. I understand how a engine stall can wreak havoc during a tense period of navigational concentration...
I will let you all know what comes of this early in the new year.
Doug
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argonaut
- Captain
- Posts: 531
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:23 pm
- Location: '97 26X, Yammy 40 4s, Central Fla.
My $.02.
The outboard represents $4-9K of the boat's value depending on age.
Get the best one you can afford. All others things equal you want reliability.
Open the motor cowl and look for a carb. Reject any boat you find them on.
From a Honda 50 owner, avoid the triple-carburetor Honda 50 like the plague and get yourself a nice reliable EFI engine. Pick your flavor... Merc, Yammy, Suz, Tohatsu all make 4 stroke EFI versions in 50HP. Carbs are a danged nuisance unless there's only one and it only takes about ten minutes to take it off.
You'll have nine less things to worry about (3 carbs times three jets) and you'll thank yourself every time your EFI starts on the first crank. Fuel injection delivers the exact fuel needed in every power range, and I'll take an injector or computer problem over a clogged jet or vacuum hose or dashpot any day. Blue Water Yachts in your neck of the woods recommends two outboard brands, neither of which are Honda. Maintenance issues aside, it's also the most anemic 50 out there. There are plenty of used Macs out there with low maintenance EFI motors.
Buy one of those.
The outboard represents $4-9K of the boat's value depending on age.
Get the best one you can afford. All others things equal you want reliability.
Open the motor cowl and look for a carb. Reject any boat you find them on.
From a Honda 50 owner, avoid the triple-carburetor Honda 50 like the plague and get yourself a nice reliable EFI engine. Pick your flavor... Merc, Yammy, Suz, Tohatsu all make 4 stroke EFI versions in 50HP. Carbs are a danged nuisance unless there's only one and it only takes about ten minutes to take it off.
You'll have nine less things to worry about (3 carbs times three jets) and you'll thank yourself every time your EFI starts on the first crank. Fuel injection delivers the exact fuel needed in every power range, and I'll take an injector or computer problem over a clogged jet or vacuum hose or dashpot any day. Blue Water Yachts in your neck of the woods recommends two outboard brands, neither of which are Honda. Maintenance issues aside, it's also the most anemic 50 out there. There are plenty of used Macs out there with low maintenance EFI motors.
Buy one of those.
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Frank C
I've read of Honda carb problems here in this forum. I guess there might be 3 satisfied Honda owners for each who has had a problem. And, as Suzuki owner with no direct Honda experience, I couldn't have said what Argo just wrote. But my EFI Suzuki 60, as stated earlier, has never stalled except when I ran a fuel tank dry.
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Frank C
Eric,
Commendable, but this is my first boat, and I could drive it (like my cars) well before I could sail it. Our Macs are hybrids - motorsailers - and for me, anyway, that engine is more than half of the recreational equation. Problem is, there are two different manufacturers involved. That your PO kept the boat well does not guarantee he carefully selected that second mfg. Based upon your sailing sans outboard, you have no worries, but I'd venture that a minority here are in that camp.
Analogy perhaps? ... oft-repeated warnings that GPS is not a tool to rely upon. But wonder how many members among 1,200+ have ever even hefted a sextant? ... not I. Yes, I know the principles of DR, and I have charts and compass and rules and binocs. I've even practiced with them. But on my boat, the only speed & distance log? ... that GPS! Odds are that I'll drive home on an outboard, following a GPS track.
Yes, I've even docked under sail, several times, in several bigger boats ... never with my 26X. But even the ASA sailing course recommends sailing onto the dock only in emergencies ... and then they always choose a vacant slip, usually upwind. Odds are overwhelming that I'll be using the outboard within a quarter-mile of my marina ...
especially when negotiating a fairway lined with boats that BEGIN at 5x the cost of mine.
Not to deprecate those skills, I'd love to have the training, experience, the hours on the water to sail into the slip. Maybe someday. But for now, I simply don't have the time to become so proficient .. meanwhile I refuse to forego the joy of sailing in the wide open spaces.
Commendable, but this is my first boat, and I could drive it (like my cars) well before I could sail it. Our Macs are hybrids - motorsailers - and for me, anyway, that engine is more than half of the recreational equation. Problem is, there are two different manufacturers involved. That your PO kept the boat well does not guarantee he carefully selected that second mfg. Based upon your sailing sans outboard, you have no worries, but I'd venture that a minority here are in that camp.
Analogy perhaps? ... oft-repeated warnings that GPS is not a tool to rely upon. But wonder how many members among 1,200+ have ever even hefted a sextant? ... not I. Yes, I know the principles of DR, and I have charts and compass and rules and binocs. I've even practiced with them. But on my boat, the only speed & distance log? ... that GPS! Odds are that I'll drive home on an outboard, following a GPS track.
Yes, I've even docked under sail, several times, in several bigger boats ... never with my 26X. But even the ASA sailing course recommends sailing onto the dock only in emergencies ... and then they always choose a vacant slip, usually upwind. Odds are overwhelming that I'll be using the outboard within a quarter-mile of my marina ...
especially when negotiating a fairway lined with boats that BEGIN at 5x the cost of mine.
Not to deprecate those skills, I'd love to have the training, experience, the hours on the water to sail into the slip. Maybe someday. But for now, I simply don't have the time to become so proficient .. meanwhile I refuse to forego the joy of sailing in the wide open spaces.
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Don T
- Admiral
- Posts: 1084
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:13 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: 95 2600 "SS OTTER" - Portland OR - Tohatsu 50 - Hull#64 (May 95)
Hello,
It is something to think about. I got a batch of water in my tank when refueling at a marina in the San Juans. The motor died and I had to sail it to a slip to do the repair. That was quite an experience.
As it turns out, after calling the gas dock and complaining, I had stepped on the MOB lanyard and dislodged it just enough to kill the motor. It was embeariskn' to say the least.
I had the motor torn half apart when my older brother handed me the lanyard and said "here........what's this" with a smile. He had seen the problem and let me go nutz for a while. Well..... you would have to know him and all the practical jokes he's played on his little brother over the years. 
It is something to think about. I got a batch of water in my tank when refueling at a marina in the San Juans. The motor died and I had to sail it to a slip to do the repair. That was quite an experience.
As it turns out, after calling the gas dock and complaining, I had stepped on the MOB lanyard and dislodged it just enough to kill the motor. It was embeariskn' to say the least.
I had the motor torn half apart when my older brother handed me the lanyard and said "here........what's this" with a smile. He had seen the problem and let me go nutz for a while. Well..... you would have to know him and all the practical jokes he's played on his little brother over the years. -
Dimitri-2000X-Tampa
- Admiral
- Posts: 2043
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:36 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Tampa, Florida 2000 Mercury BigFoot 50HP 4-Stroke on 26X hull# 3575.B000
Well, EFI's are nice and I sure prefer them on my cars...but...
I think this may be a bit extreme. Sure, I have had some issues with my 4 carb Merc when I ran some dirty gas that clogged one of the main jets but that dirty gas could have caused even bigger problems for EFI and at least I was able to open up the carbs myself and unclog it. Once I got them re-assembled and tuned back up, they have run great ever since, without any maint at all...and I don't put bad gas in them anymore. That was almost 3 years ago now.
Carbs do still have some advantages over EFI, and keep in mind that most single engine airplanes still had carbs the last time I checked...must be a reason that EFI is so slow to enter aviation piston engines even though it took over autos so fast and quite a while ago.
Open the motor cowl and look for a carb. Reject any boat you find them on.
I think this may be a bit extreme. Sure, I have had some issues with my 4 carb Merc when I ran some dirty gas that clogged one of the main jets but that dirty gas could have caused even bigger problems for EFI and at least I was able to open up the carbs myself and unclog it. Once I got them re-assembled and tuned back up, they have run great ever since, without any maint at all...and I don't put bad gas in them anymore. That was almost 3 years ago now.
Carbs do still have some advantages over EFI, and keep in mind that most single engine airplanes still had carbs the last time I checked...must be a reason that EFI is so slow to enter aviation piston engines even though it took over autos so fast and quite a while ago.
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waternwaves
- Admiral
- Posts: 1499
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:18 pm
- Location: X less in North Puget Sound -have to sail other boats for a while
Eric
I used to love playing that navigation game in the north puget sound area (DELETED CONTENT....................) cruise along in our Marlin at 30 kts with only the chart and my compass in my hand, steady throttle speed, keep track of the current, watch land bearings.......
and then verbally give her the exact position to verify against the GPS reported continuous fix only in her hand...... down to a few seconds...... she couldnt believe that people could read charts like that.....But I told her it was much easier at 30 kts onwater than 150 kts in the air.......but we practiced it for many hundreds of miles....... and she still enjoyyed the challenge and I still have a sextant in the boat
I used to love playing that navigation game in the north puget sound area (DELETED CONTENT....................) cruise along in our Marlin at 30 kts with only the chart and my compass in my hand, steady throttle speed, keep track of the current, watch land bearings.......
and then verbally give her the exact position to verify against the GPS reported continuous fix only in her hand...... down to a few seconds...... she couldnt believe that people could read charts like that.....But I told her it was much easier at 30 kts onwater than 150 kts in the air.......but we practiced it for many hundreds of miles....... and she still enjoyyed the challenge and I still have a sextant in the boat
Last edited by waternwaves on Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.