I have installed portlights on the outside of my aft birth on my mac19 they are set up just below the black paint stripe just 3" below the deck joint I installed a 1/2" thick solid plastic filler between the hull & liner they are as solid as a rock way stronger than the hull & liner by its self the fact that the boat did not recover from the starboard side could have been because the starboard portlight was closed but not locked "secured" closed ?
I pulled an 18hp evinrude from 25ft of water had been submerged in the lake for 2 weeks paid the ins. comp. $200. for it. Flushed it, it ran great for 10yrs on my alum 14ft boat was still running good when I sold it with the alum boat . what causes the most damage is if the eng is still running as it is submerged the connecting rods get bent & the electronics get shorted. Hope to here what happened . toys can always be replaced lifes not your lucky "somebody was looking after you"
Capsized My 26X
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Highlander
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It's a sobering discussion, and I think Fran and her friend were fortunate (more like "prepared", with their pfds handy and their quick response to the emergency).
As I understand the Mac powersailers, the most dangerous condition is to attempt to sail with a partially filled tank. -This may be what happened. Also, I note that they had to bail out the boat several weeks before the accident. - As previously discussed, this may have left some water in the bilge, adding to the "partially filled ballast" effect. Add to this the water that may have ingressed through the porthole and/or the forward hatch.
Incidentally, does anyone know how much water the bilge could hold, in the X or M, without water being visible? Is it a nominal amount that wouldn't significantly affect the boat's handling?
Jim
As I understand the Mac powersailers, the most dangerous condition is to attempt to sail with a partially filled tank. -This may be what happened. Also, I note that they had to bail out the boat several weeks before the accident. - As previously discussed, this may have left some water in the bilge, adding to the "partially filled ballast" effect. Add to this the water that may have ingressed through the porthole and/or the forward hatch.
Incidentally, does anyone know how much water the bilge could hold, in the X or M, without water being visible? Is it a nominal amount that wouldn't significantly affect the boat's handling?
Jim
RE: Incidentally, does anyone know how much water the bilge could hold, in the X or M, without water being visible? Is it a nominal amount that wouldn't significantly affect the boat's handling?
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If the floor has no holes in it to allow water to seep into the lowest part of the floor at the bottom of the ladder. ( They do recommend you drill a small hole in the floor for just that reason, so you'll feel it on your feet )
I'd say you could get a substantial amount of water in the bilge ( easily a few hundred lbs and probably alot more ) without knowing it.
I sponged out a bucket and a half of water the other day ( probably 30 lbs ) and it LOOKED like it was just damp in there when I started. It can spread out over the whole bilge area and not really look like much at all.
Could have been the problem !!!!!!!
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If the floor has no holes in it to allow water to seep into the lowest part of the floor at the bottom of the ladder. ( They do recommend you drill a small hole in the floor for just that reason, so you'll feel it on your feet )
I'd say you could get a substantial amount of water in the bilge ( easily a few hundred lbs and probably alot more ) without knowing it.
I sponged out a bucket and a half of water the other day ( probably 30 lbs ) and it LOOKED like it was just damp in there when I started. It can spread out over the whole bilge area and not really look like much at all.
Could have been the problem !!!!!!!
From my personal experience these boats can take a lot of water without noticing it. Once (early spring), I was on my boat to do some mods, perfect weather for sailing and I just couldn't resist. I sailed out and forgot that two weeks ago I removed drain hose from galley sink, it had a small leak since I modified it to fit my galley drawers and it was home for repair. Ballast in, sail up, first tack was port Gps speed about 5.5 - 6 kt . Second tack was starboard and also a long one for maybe 30 minutes. All that time through hole for sink drain was under the water. I noticed that boat is healing too much and my speed was down after maybe 20 minutes, I played with sails but it was still behaving. I decided to tack again and then saw all water from port bilges pouring from galley drawers and after 5 seconds of panic I remembered that I have a hole in the boat that I have not closed. Plugged the hole, lowered my sails, motored towards the beach and anchored. When I took closer look the hole for galley sink was just 1/2" above the water. Water was on the galley floor about 5" deep and all bilges full and overflowing inside the boat. I must had couple hundreds gallons of water. I have no bilge pumps installed and bailed water with one gallon container for about 40 minutes. On shore I kept dong it with shop vacuum for additional hour before I got it dry.
Zoran
Zoran
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Dimitri-2000X-Tampa
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I believe it was also mentioned earlier in this thread, but the hole drilled into the rear of the cabin sole (just under the ladder) is not there to drain water out, it is there to let water IN from the area between the sole and hull. It is referred to as a leak detector and I think was added to the X boat somewhere around 98-99 when other improvements were made to the original design. I think I've heard mention of some folks actually drilling a hole there if they don't have one already. The lowest spot on the boat seems to be under the cooler liner (and corresponding area in the galley) so that is the place to check for leaks. When I first got the boat, the chainplates leaked slightly and the water collected there.
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Gerald Gordon
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Catigale
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What details are you guys looking for? It might be that there isnt much more to add then the above. I dont see how a post mortem would tell you much, unless you find an open porthole ...even then one could argue it could have sprung open when the boat rolled...
I agree with the two points above especially the ballast take home...I think most of us have grown past the stage of operating stoned by now...
I agree with the two points above especially the ballast take home...I think most of us have grown past the stage of operating stoned by now...
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vkmaynard
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No offense intended, but you are kidding, right? Why do you think the FAA requires "Black Boxes" on aircraft to figure out what happened, post mortem, so the situation can be avoided in the future?Catigale wrote:I dont see how a post mortem would tell you much, unless you find an open porthole ...even then one could argue it could have sprung open when the boat rolled...
I personally would like to know what REALLY happened.
Victor
The problem is that there will probably never be any real analysis, certainly not to the level of an FAA/NTSB investigation.vkmaynard wrote:No offense intended, but you are kidding, right? Why do you think the FAA requires "Black Boxes" on aircraft to figure out what happened, post mortem, so the situation can be avoided in the future?
I personally would like to know what REALLY happened.
Victor
Nobody was injured, let alone died. This is an insurance claim. Nothing more. The insurance company is likely going to total the boat, at which point they own it, and therefore Fran's ability to investigate is non-existant.
If they don't total the boat and/or if they accuse her of some error/fraud, then its probably not in her best interest to discuss the matter here.
I think we're all going to have to accept that we've been given the most information we can reasonably expect.
Fran, I hope it all works out and I wish you the best of luck... If you have more information to share, I welcome it. But, I certainly don't think you owe it to us...
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Frank C
Catigale wrote:...and respectful of Frans privacy if one were found, that she might not want to share on a public board.
Hear, hear!DLT wrote: ... I think we're all going to have to accept that we've been given the most information we can reasonably expect.
Fran, I hope it all works out and I wish you the best of luck... If you have more information to share, I welcome it. But, I certainly don't think you owe it to us...
