Looking for a sailboat

[FingerLakesBtr]

I have NEVER sailed before. The wife and I have looked at Hunters, Presicion and Catalinas in the 24' range but all are more $ than the MacGregor. Not really interested in the powerboat option beyond 10HP or so to get us out of the marina. Are these boats hard to learn to sail? Are there options available to make them easier to learn to sail? etc.
Thanks,

[ALX357]

I love my Mac, but IMHO, it is best to learn to sail on a smaller boat.

Second to that, a traditional larger sailboat will be easier to learn on - more responsive, and more predictable.

This opinion is based on alot of factors, but instead of getting into all of them, ........

Maybe we should hear from some other MacOwners too.

[Paul S]

or if it is in the budget..get the Mac.. be better to sail a Mac, than not sail at all..

There are 'better' boats out there but at a significant cost

The Mac fit out needs..cost..trailerable..power...sail..size..etc

Paul

[baldbaby2000]

I can only speak for the M. Among it's advantages are easy trailerability, fast under power and it has a lot of room inside--probably more than the other boats you mentioned. Sounds like your not interested in motoring fast but you can still put a small motor on it and have even less weight making it a better sailor. I think the M can be a little tough to sail when the wind comes up. The water ballast makes it rather tender and I think the rudders may be undersized. Having said that, I still got it to be a sailboat and use it as such. If I didn't trailer much I may have chosen a different boat.

We just got back from a regatta a Lake of the Woods. We were probably one of the slowest boats that competed in the races but most of the other boats were either not trailerable, were planing daysailer types, or were a big hassle to launch and retrieve. We had ours on the trailer while they were still trying to arrange a crane to lift them out. We were also able to get to any of the anchorages much faster and even amazed the fleet when we went by them pulling a skiier with our 40hp motor.

One boat that impresses me each year is a Corsair 27 trimaran that a guy from Minnesota brings with his family. It seems relatively easy to launch (although not as easy as the Mac and harder to rig) and is fast. He's taken it to the Bahamas and trailers a lot.

[Frank C]

Agree w/Alex. Since the Mac is a hybrid, it's not the easiest boat in which to learn sailing.
In fact, it's probably one of the more difficult boats to sail well.

• Yes, it IS more cost-effective than similarly sized sailboats;
  and yes, it DOES offer much more cabin space than similarly sized sailboats;
  but there is a compromise attaching to those advantages. If you're sure that motoring is not in your plans, why suffer the penalties attached to its powersailer design?

If pure sailing is your 80 percent of your goal, think about joining a sailing school that offers membership rentals on their fleet. The one I attended was Tradewinds Sailing Club at Pt. Richmond,
on SF Bay. It was only $1,000 for the full ASA bareboat course,a series of 3 classes. Then I could join the Sailing Club ... and for a flat monthly fee of $175 on a 12-month contract, can rent any boat in their "fleet 29" (up to 29-footers) for unlimited hours per month.

For about $3,000, they offer the full ASA lesson plan plus a year's worth of sailing.

[delevi]

I had a bit of sailing experience on small boats, just on vacations, but for the most part, I learned to sail on my Mac I quickly discovered what others have already mentioned. It is not an easy boat to sail in heavy winds. I did many modifications to make the boat more manageable and perform better in high winds, which is where I do most of my sailing. A 30' keel boat would certainly be better. That being said, if you want an affordable, trailerable, comfortable boat that does it all, the Mac can't be beat. I have checked out the Hunter 25, and Catalina 25, the closest competitors of the Mac. Neither one comes close as far as cabin accommodations. Neither one can motor fast (still a nice option, though you don't think you want it.) May want to reconsider. After a full day of sailing with the sun starting to set, it's nice to be able to get back to your marina quickly. Also, the Mac sails better than the Hunter. Probably comparable or better than the Catalina 25 water ballast but not as good as the Cat 25 wing keel. Try launching that wing-keel boat, however. No comparison there. The Mac has it hands down. Bottom line is if you're willing to take on a challenge, learn on the Mac, and make mods as you see fit, you will end up with a really nice boat that is extremely versatile and the best thing out there for the money. At the end, it will make you a better sailor. I can speak from personal experience, having gone to the school of hard knocks. Now, 2 years later, after being a complete novice, I consider myself a competent sailor. Still much to learn and much to improve upon, but I feel confident that I can go out in virtually any conditions and feel safe and in-control and provide for the safety of those I have aboard. I'm not sure if I would be able to say that if I opted for the 16' Hobbie or a the 30' keel boat.

Good luck with your decision.

Leon

[NiceAft]

FingerLakes,

I sailed a Phantom(14' of fun) for 25 years before getting my M. I'm not sure whether or not the sailing experience on what is basically a Sunfish gave me sailing credentials to own/sail a Mac or not? The skills I learned on the Phantom were basically reactionary. Shifting my body weight at upturns in the wind or hooking my feet under the hiking strap and leaning far enough out of the boat to see under the hull while the boat was practically sailing on its edges were not techniques that have frequent applications on a 26 footer. What I did get from such a small boat was a love of sailing.

You say you never sailed before. Why not see if you can find someone on the Finger Lakes who has a daysailer. We rag men are generally eager to give a ride to those who have never sailed. If you like it, proceed from there. If not, well, you just saved yourself a lot of money!

Many of the people on this site are in an area where they can sail many more days than you can in the Finger Lakes of NY. Many sail under different conditions than you will face on long narrow lakes. I doubt you will frequently face the winds they have in SF. You may not be interested in a larger motor now, but when you need it, you will be glad it's there!

One last comment, if you do decide to get a boat, any boat, take the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary class on sailing and seamanship. It is well worth it.


Ray

[James V]

FingerLakes - Learning how to sail? - Well, You can do it on a Mac. However, the best would be on a very light, small Sloop rigged boat that responds instantly with any change in the wind, stearing, sail trim, weight, movement ect.... the bigger the boat, the longer it takes for the boat to respond to changes.

However, If you want to learn how to weekend cruise and sail, The Mac is a great choice.

It is best to get some instruction in basic courses. I did it and it helped a lot.

Motor choice, please consider something more than a 10 hp, With the high freeboard of the Mac, docking with any wind can be made easier with a bigger motor.

[Sassy Too]

FingerLakesBtr...Good morning! Like the others on this site,I don't think the MacGregor can be beat as far as trailerability,launching,and room,for the Money.We have a 2004, with a Mercury 9.9,4 stroke,which for us is o.k.,but I do wish we had ordered a motor with available remote controls. The 9.9 with tiller is Extremely difficult to manuver in a Marina.You have to have the "Helmsmans Seat" in the up position,so that you can reach down to the tiller and the shifter,and while doing so you can't see where you are going.Like I said,it would be much better to Stand at the Helm and control the boat.I don't like my choice of motor,but I Love my choice of "Boat".Good Luck........Don

[kmclemore]

Much as I like our Mac, I'm not sure I'd recommend it as a 'learning' boat. Aside from the fact that the Mac is not the 'best' sailboat per se, one of the problems with learning to sail on ANY large boat is that one does not get the 'feel' of sailing. It's too remote, particularly with a wheel.

My advice, similar to others above, is to buy a small day-sailor with a tiller and a simple sloop rig. You don't need a new one, and you needn't spend a fortune... any older boat will do - Alcort, Buccaneer, Chrysler, B/W Harpoon, O'Day, Prindle, etc. - and many of these can be had for real cheap these days. Buy one and spend a summer with her. Learn the feel of the tiller in your hand, and how to 'balance' the boat... feel the how the boat responds to the wind, and allow you and the boat to become 'one' so that it becomes like driving your car - second nature.

Once you've got the 'feel' of that little boat, then moving to a larger boat is much easier and you'll be better able to cater to the needs and handling of the larger vessel.

[Moe]

Buy this and by used, letting someone else take the depreciation hit. Then you can sell it for near what you paid for it if you want to move up to a larger boat. Bottom paint it, put it ina slip and you won't have to worry about learning about setup and launching... just sailing.

As opposed to just a daysailor, it gives you a potty in privacy, a place to get out of the sun, and even overnight or weekend capability.

[Catigale]

Finger Lakes...welcome to the Board

Im up in Albany but sail Cayuga a lot...I think the day sailor approach to learning sailing is the way to go.

One thing to add..the Finger Lakes connect to the Erie Canal system at the top of course, and the Mac is agreat boat for motor cruisiing that system. If you think that is of interest then the Mac maybe should be your first boat.

If you think you want to race, then Macs arent for you unless you commit to many mods.

You can get a daysailor in good shape used for about 2k easily...like my Island 17. We had it on Cayuga two weeks ago...

[Frank C]

Following up on Moe's advice .... this is the boat that Tradewinds uses for their first sailing classes. It will sail rings around the 26X ... hands down, no questions. Don't know how much they'd cost, not much in cabin space, but it's very easy to sail, even in SF Bay winds ... it's also got great rigging and sail controls.

[Terry]

I think Frank C said it best & Moe put you in the right direction for a beginner boat.
But, you say you have never sailed before but only need a 10hp engine, how so? You don't even know if you are going to like sailing, some folks don't take to it while others do. It will be expensive to discover you don't like it, buying new.
I sense the Macgregor appeals to you because it is a pricepoint boat and appears to be more affordable - do not be fooled, it comes begging for upgrades and you will put out a significant amount of extra $$ bringing it up to your personal standards.
I bought an '03 26M new and enjoy it a lot dispite the inheirant compromises which I have learned to adjust to (it is skinny). Even though I am a sailor first I cannot discount the 50hp Honda I have. Sure, I can't wait to get out there, put my sails up and shut off that noisy engine, but out here in the Pacific Northwest there are many varied conditions and currents and I have been thankfull for my 50 horses on many occasions. Sometimes there is simply no wind and it is time to bring on the 'Iron Genny' other times I am on a week adventure and heading straight on into the wind during some of my journey. There are many islands and passes with strong 6kts+ currents, not to mention strong tides, when loaded for a trip 50hp comes in real handy through a pass or through strong rip tides & eddies. The 50 hp only extrends the boundaries of adventures and possibilities, do not be too quick to say you only need a 10hp. Besides many of those 4 stroke 10hp engines weigh in at 100lbs, the Honda 50 only weighs 200lbs so it is a good choice. In hindsight I may have chose a Yamaha High thrust 60HP for no other reason than to swing a 14" prop and get better low end thrust through some of those currents. I rarely ever go beyond 3000-4000 rpm when motor cruising and sometimes I even motor sail for extra speed under sail when the winds are wimpy.
If you are leaning towards a Mac be sure you consider long term needs, you may regret not springing for the 50hp engine. The Mac is a great daysailor and long weekender, some folks go for several weeks, but a boat of this size and capability is a gamble for someone who has yet to discover if they like sailing, something to think about.

[Catigale]

A mercury 9.9 will run you $2500 from Defender, if you want to upgrade later figure on selling it at 1/2 price, so the upgrade exposure is 2k with install, figure..