Thoughts on Faster Rigging

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:40 am

I have been trying to figure out a way to make the rigging/de-rigging process faster. I have recently added a snap shackle to my main sheet and vang, which should speed things up a bit. One thing I noticed is that attaching and removing the mast raising kit takes way too much time. I know some of you don't use it, but with my rig, I must. There needs to be very high load applied via the winch in order for me to pin or unpin the forestay, since I made it so short to reduce mast rake. That, combined with very tight upper shrouds requires more force than I can generate by just pulling on the forestay. I have considered a couple of things:

One would be to permanently install the mast raising pole/winch to the trailer tongue and have the baby stays remain in place all the time. The down side to that the pole will create some obstruction for climbing up and down the trailer ladder and Im not crazy about having the baby stays permanently in place, but can probably live with that. My other idea was to use the jib halyard with a trucker's hitch to raise and lower the mast. I think this would require a much longer jib halyard and I'm not sure that a 2:1 purchase would be enough for me to attach or detach the forestay. Does anyone have some experience or ideas on this? I think I recall reading on this board about someone using a halyard to raise and/or lower the mast. Thanks.

Leon

Max · Post by **Max** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:14 am

Just to say that I always keep the baby stays on. If the mast did come down accidentally, they will stop the whole thing going over the side.

Richard Lisch · Post by **Richard Lisch** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:50 am

From experience with my Cal 27, you just can hope that your mast goes over the side if it happens (usually it does). You have not more than 3 seconds in 15kt breeze to lay flat.

LOUIS B HOLUB · Post by **LOUIS B HOLUB** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:01 am

...I happened to watch my Mac-X video yesterday, and noted that ROGER claims that riggin' takes about 10 minutes. Well, I have about 30 to 40 min. to go....HA. And even after Ive rigged the boat, another 15 min. to check everything out to be sure of no mistakes...
Rigging speed is fun, but no mistakes is more fun.
Happy Sailing.

They Theirs · Post by **They Theirs** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:24 am

Performance sailboats with double spreader rigs require a great amount of deep-water trailer work with launch time and effort far exceeding the Macs best of the trailer sailboat easy in and out. Im not ready to give up the brake winch or the control during the stepping and un-stepping process. Note the photos below requiring a crew of 4 to step the mast. We use the brake winch to provide tension on the mast, easing our effort to secure the headstay clevis pin at the bow.

Note the long chain and deep-water launch for this so called trailer sailboat. I know there are some who would provide the effort to launch and retrieve one of these classes, but the get in deep water, plus the thought of dunking the brake cylinder and electrical removes it from my wish for list.

I believe Hunter uses a trailer rigged, mast raising system.
If you need to lower your rig on the water, it might be nice to have that ability.

baldbaby2000 · Post by **baldbaby2000** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:51 am

I also have to crank ours pretty tight to pin the forestay. We forgot the mast raiser once and I raised the mast by hand. Not as bad as I thought but I wouldn't want to do it on a real windy day. Using just the jib halyard to pull the mast forward enough to pin the furler was a chore.

Dimitri-2000X-Tampa · Post by **Dimitri-2000X-Tampa** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:38 pm

I keep my baby stays on all the time too, but now I wonder if they could cause the mast to crash straight into the cockpit versus overboard where it couldn't hurt anyone should the forestay ever fail. Too much to worry about in life I suppose.

I've also kept my mast raiser attached before..just strapped up to the mast as close as it will go. It does interfere slightly with the genoa when tacking, but it is still quite possible to sail with it that way. Usually, I take it off though, especially as I can have many months between usages (my mast stays up most of the time).

rockman · Post by **rockman** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:30 am

When i took delivery of my new 26M, i watched the salesman put up the mask (from trailable setup) in a matter of minutes - without the mast raising tool. Now i figure if a small 52 year old man can do it single handed, a fit strong 42 year old shouldhave no problems.

Well, on the first attempt it was a little difficult, but by the 3rd go - easy. I can arrive at the ramp, mast up, boom on, and ready to launch in 15 minutes. I then have to wait another 15 minutes for the trailer hubs to cool.

I was thinking of making a lever to allow quicker forestay connection. On a racing dingy we had a steel lever that one end hooked on the front of the boat, the forestay attached a few inches along the lever. The total length was about 30", so the leverage was about 10:1. This made one handed attachements quick and easy.
Has anybody tried this with the mac?

RockMan
- Sailing in Australia (The country that took the American Cup from the Americans - LOL)

They Theirs · Post by **They Theirs** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:50 am

Quick Release:
Make sure the strength is equal or greater than the 1 x 19 headstay. Could cause a problem. Too high off the deck for our boat.

Quick Release by Maurice Flude

Forestay on quick release lever by Catagail

Forestay Tensioner by Michael

For those of you that have added one of these lever, how far up the mast did you raise the forestay tang and how long was the lever? The lever I have can adjust from 6 7/8" to 8 3/8" Any idea how high ...

PS Rockman....We gave you the Cup to keep you from drinking out of your boat shoes-(LOL)

mtc · Post by **mtc** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:51 am

I believe it was 9" higher from the stock hound - It's whatever the closed distance was when the tensioner was closed. They may be different.

This should be a stock item. It makes the rigging SO much easier to connect the forestay and keep somewhat tight. I remember how difficult it was before. Just had to either really crank hard on the raising rig, or run with forestay too slack - neither a good option.

Cutting the furling rig and the original forestay was an option, but I wanted to have the duel hounds for the additional forestay planned.

I've got my rigging to sail down to about 30 minutes when I'm on my game. When on the water it takes me at least 45 with the boat bobbing all over the place!! I've employed snap shackles on the baby stays, on the main halyard, and backstay. My hard vang stays attached in the track on the boom which is banded to the port stanchions at the ready. The raising gear comes up from below (a pain, but where can you stow it?) and I'm going away from all bolts to lock ball quick pins, like we use on the landing gear locks - they can't come out unless you push the pin in.

Ah, nothing like stepping off the dock, throwing the lines, and motoring out into the bay. . . compared to sweating on the trailer, 30' off the parking lot running here, ducking there. . . But, the consolation prize is the $400 saved every month! And, all the people coming by and standing there in awe at such a beautiful boat being readied.

Kind of makes it look like it's a racing boat that's too expensive to dare keep at any old dock.

I love my little boat!

Michael

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:18 am

For those of you that have added one of these lever, how far up the mast did you raise the forestay tang and how long was the lever? The lever I have can adjust from 6 7/8" to 8 3/8" Any idea how high ...

The length of the forestay lever on my mod was about 8 inches, so you have to do the trig and find out you move the hound up about 5 inches. You could also do this by just aligning the forestay along the line of the rigged forestay and then measuring the rise with a tape measure...since they levers are adjustable you can afford a tolerance of 1/2 inch easily...just make sure you do this method with the lever in the middle of its length adjustment.

For those without the lever or the mast raiser, Duane or Dimitri (sorry, I cant ever remember who posted this gem!!) posted a method where you tie sailtie in a loop to the forestay or furler, straddle the forestay sitting on the pulpit, then tension the forestay with your foot (and body weight) while pinning it. You can easily get 300 pounds of force with this method without straining anything

On edit: Billy is the mastermind who first thought of this trick...kudos Billy...

Dimitri-2000X-Tampa · Post by **Dimitri-2000X-Tampa** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:23 am

Catigale wrote:
For those without the lever or the mast raiser, Duane or Dimitri (sorry, I cant ever remember who posted this gem!!) posted a method where you tie sailtie in a loop to the forestay or furler, straddle the forestay sitting on the pulpit, then tension the forestay with your foot (and body weight) while pinning it. You can easily get 300 pounds of force with this method without straining anything

Since this has been mentioned more than once, I did a search on one of the old threads and came up with this one:

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=604

It may have been Billy who first mentioned the loop for the foot trick, however, I think I get the credit for the straddling

- I used to use a very precise body position to get all my upper body weight and strength available for the pinning, but I don't have to do this nonsense anymore (yes, I do use the mast raising pole). What I credit Duane for showing me (amongst many other things when I first got my boat) is about the adjustable backstay. This is truly a great trick for an easy forestay pinning and I have to admit, I was skeptical at first since it is the shrouds that are pulling back on the forestay.

I also have my rig much tighter than I had in the early years of my X boat and still, it is much easier to pin the forestay now than the agony I used to go through initially with a looser rig. So, to recap, there are two key points to an easy forestay pinning:

1. Release your backstay completely (preferably with a adjustable backstay mod - I copied Duanes mod block for block on this one). Of course, this doesn't apply to the 26M which doesn't have a backstay.
2. Make sure that your mast raising pole is up at a good 30 degree angle or so from the deck when you first attach it. The reason being is that the rope stretches a lot and you will need that 30 degrees of extra pull to get good tension on it. Last time I raised, I put the loos gauge on my shrouds and I had 600 lbs of tension on it with the mast raiser (and I could have torqued it further if I wanted to)....you just can't do that by hand guys. Anyway, the pole position being much higher than you would think intuitively is the key to being able to do a gorilla pull on the mast.

By the time you do both these things, pinning the forestay is easier than a Sunday walk in the park. Ahhh...experience, I remember all the sweating and cursing days...

Trav White · Post by **Trav White** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:59 pm

I will be ordering the mast raising system this week for safety, but the last time I rigged with my 12-yr old son, my weight was no match for the furler. Could only get it about an inch away. Then I tried the foot method. I just grabbed an extra piece of line, tied one end around the furler drum and then made a loop at the bottom. Then I stood in front of the boat on the trailer and stepped in the loop with my right foot. The only challenge was lining up the holes, since I was pulling it slightly to the right. But, all in all, it was pretty easy. I hope the mast raising system will work well enough. If not, I'll just use the foot method.

Tom Walsh · Post by **Tom Walsh** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:56 pm

I often step the mast by myself, and I keep a tight forstay for mast rake forward and to prevent shockloading of forstay. I have no mast raising system. As the po pointed out to me the mast is only 40 lbs.
I have a smalll shackle with a block on it (stays attached all the time) attached to forstay chainplate , I run a
line through the block to the jib halyard shackle end, then holding the line I throw the mast on my shoulder and stand it up, I then pull the line that runs through the block, to the jib halyard, tight . That holds up the mast while I give it 3 wraps on the starboard winch , I give the winch a few cranks and cleat off the end of the line , then as a safty facter tie it off again. I can then go forward and pin the forstay. I am 5'4" and 55 y/o ,it is not a strain. If I have some help I give the winch job to my crew.
Tom 26x Son Of A Sailor

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:32 pm

Thanks Tom. That was the magic answer I was looking for. Sounds like you have a good system. Baby stays would probably help make the experience smoother and safer as well. As nice, safe and efficient as the mast raising system is, it consumes too much time to set up and take down. On a hot day with the admiral and crew anxious to get on the water, not to mention the thirsty captain, every bit of time saved in rigging is valuable.

Cheers,
Leon

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Thoughts on Faster Rigging

Thoughts on Faster Rigging