Advice for a soon to be owner?

[FreeStyle]

I was delighted to find this very informative and well mannered forum. Thank You.

I am not an owner yet but plan to be in the next few weeks. Any advice on the initial configuration and dealer customization of the Mac 26M would be welcomed.

The boat will be used on lakes, rivers and coastal areas for both short and extended cruises; much of it will be single handed.

The larger items I expect to have installed are a GPS Nav slaved to an autopilot, VHF radio, and 2000 Watt generator for possible future use of refrigerator, microwave, and computer. The dealer is recommending a 50HP Honda 4 stroke engine. Can anyone give me a notion of what the gas mileage might be at 4-6 MPH?

While I very much enjoy sailing, cruising rivers will probably be my passion and have already started planning an initial trip from Augusta to Savannah GA on the Savannah River, (170 miles). Can anyone tell me the minimum height clearance needed with the mast down to clear obstructions?

[Paul S]

The only things we had installed (or bought from the dealer) were:
mast raiser (must have)
Roller fuler
Geneoa
motor
steering linkage (must have, sucks, but must have)
trailer brakes (must have)
interior cushions (now standard)
boarding ladder (installed, no cost, but didn't want)
topling lift


CHeck out my www for all the stuff I have installed, and search the forum for other stuff I have done to the boat.

I would INSIST that the dealer install a channel in the mast (search forums), as they are filled with foam in several areas, and a pain to install wires for antenna, anchor lite, other accessories that must go up the mast.

Also see if initial rigging is included. Some dealers do not offer it, or offer it at an additonal cost. I arrainged with the dealer to get it 'ready to sail' (set standing rigging, install roller furler, attach sails, etc). If you don't you will have to do it youself, and can be complicated if you are not familiar with this type of stuff (like I was when we first got the boat). Our dealer also included delivery to our home as well.

Have the dealer show you how to raise the mast, as it can be a bit hard when you first do it yourself.

Most other options I installed myself because I was not sure WHERE I wanted the options installed, and chose different items than the dealer would have installed

pm or email me with any questions of what I have done, or why I did certain things.

Paul

[Divecoz]

IMHO unless you live on the water and will be sailing at least . . . . EVERY weekend ! Go slow Buy slow install slow or. . . . you'll be like me and a few others here and be the proud owner of stuff that doesnt . . . work or you dont really want. Yes Yes Yes Bill @ Boats told me so Moe told me so TT told me so I was TOO EXCITED and spent the money anyways .
On Edit : and just a little Brag Going on But Bill@ Boats4sail GAVE me a topping Lift : ) everyone who buys from Bill get's one for free : ) I like free stuff

[Paul S]

We have the honda 50. We had issues with it..but I would not recommend it because there are better choices. The honda, although supposed to be reliable, is still carburated. There are other outboards that are fuel injected for a similar pricepoint.

[Mac Ziggy]

FreeStyle, how familiar are you with the Savannah River? I live in SC (South of the Savannah River Site), and I never took my X to the River but it is a trip I would like to make some day. I know of people that have made the trip in powerboats. They usually took two days and they camped on a sandbar along the way. I cant really see any need for a mast until you get to Savannah. Below Augusta, the average width of the river is about 500 feet and probably less than 300 feet of navigable channel in most places. Too many turns, sandbars, fast currents, overhanging trees and bass boats. Unless we get a lot of thunderstorms (and they are starting up) the river will probably be low. Releases from Thurmond Dam (Clark Hill) can change that quickly. Low water means more sandbars and submerged logs - not a good place for dagger boards. Filling the ballast and using the rudders would probably work. It is a good place to spot alligators in the side lakes (calm water, be very quiet and wait). Downriver flow will give a 5 to 6 knot float speed depending on the water level. There are some narrow sections that are faster and you need to have the motor running. Its not white water rafting but please keep a watch out and be careful.

My 99X came from the dealer in Atlanta. The original owner was very pleased with them but the boat only had the basic factory items. I have been there three times recently to look at 26Ms and they seem to do excellent installation of all sorts of mods. If you would like to turn a 26M into a mini luxury yacht, they can do it. I get the feeling they want to sell what they have, not necessarily what I would like to have. I had a Honda 50 on the X - not enough power for that size boat for me in the river or the tidal areas. If I get a 26M, I will power it with a 90HP. I dont think they will do that in Atlanta. I would prefer a local dealer, but since 200 miles is the closest, none of them are local.

I consider the Mac 26 as a boat of Opportunity, not a compromise boat. It is a wonderful platform to make the boat that suits your needs. Sometimes you have to try it on a few times to really know what your needs are. Start with the basics, use the boat a few times, and then adjust your equipment.

[argonaut]

Can anyone tell me the minimum height clearance needed with the mast down to clear obstructions?

I'd have to measure my masthead to ground on trailer & subtract the waterline to get exact, but with my 26X mast stepped & on the crutch but not raised, I barely clear a 12' train bridge. (boompole flat...). I've stepped the mast then raised & pinned the forestay just before entering the ICW.
Obviously you can do better with the mast in transport position, & don't forget tide variations.

[Randy Smith]

Keep the boat simple and enjoy it for what it is.....a simple family cruiser or day sailor.......I am with the previous post who say go slow on the upgrades...besides, when you are done, you'll be bored and want another boat...... Randy

[FreeStyle]

Paul S,

Thank you for all the good comments.

I went to your Web site. You have been very busy or have been doing it a long time. There is not enough room at my place to store a boat which would make working on it much more convenient.

Your comments on the Honda are well taken and not inconsistent with other comments I have received locally. Hopefully my local dealer will have some options.

FreeStyle

[FreeStyle]

Divecoz, Mac, Randy,

Keeping it simple up front sounds like good advice, also may get me in the boat faster.

Thanks,

FreeStyle

[FreeStyle]

argonaut,

Thanks for the information.

FreeStyle

[FreeStyle]

MAC ZIGGY,

Thanks for the reply.

I am not very familliar with the river at all. I have toured it Agusta to Savannah on Google Earth and have NOAA charts 11515 and 11514 witch cover the river from Augusta to Savannah. You are right, dont much need a mast unless you really want some exercise at all points of sail. I will probably take in anyway; with any luck I can get some sailing done around Savannah which is an area that I am somewhat familiar.

I was very surprised by the 5-6 knot speed of the river. I would have guessed 1-3. This could be tricky in confined spaces, thanks for the heads up.

I am interested in why you would put a 90 HP motor on the boat. If you can, please post more detail on this subject or pm me. I think you are correct on the dealer wanting to sell what they have; its only natural for them. I think I am off the Honda and if the dealer will not provide any thing else I will go some where else even though it would be hundreds of miles. Is the boat rated for a 90?

The Mac 26 will hopefully be the perfect boat for me. I will be doing a lot of single handed sailing. I like the shallow draft for rivers and such, and the speed when necessary or convenient.

BTW, I grew up in South Carolina, Camden through high school, went to USC after a service stint; worked in Columbia for a while then to Savannah and now Atlanta.

Thanks,

FreeStyle

[David Mellon]

After many hours of research, I found the Evinrude 2-stroke to be the better engine. The EPA rates it as cleanest of all outboards. Lake Tahoe Search and Rescue chose it. The first service is 3 years, others are 6 months and much more expensive. There are 2 parts to the cylinder not 105. No valves to adjust and no oil pump to maintain. Better weight to power ratio, better torque. They don't smoke like the old days. Better alternator than most others. I get 30 hours off a small tank of oil. No mixing oil and fuel, that is all computer driven. But mostly it comes back to the expense of maintaining a 4-stroke. The only item I bought and regret is the masthead windex. I choose a genny, furler, lines led aft, cockpit cushions, vang, stove, dock pumpout head and of course the mast raiser.

[bob lee]

freestyle;

welcome to the board, the guys on this site can and will teach you more then any other resource you can find. my only advice is, unless you've got alot of sailing experience, before you learn too many bad habits, take a sailing course. up here, its the canadian yachting association, i don't know the similar one there, one of these guys will know. but imho there is nothing more important, we learned in a week on the water, so much important sailing/safety information, and gained an amazing degree of confidence. spend the money up front, and you'll enjoy the experience alot more

good luck!

[They Theirs]

David Mellon
After many hours of research, I found the Evinrude 2-stroke to be the better engine.

C-Fisher
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005
I have the same E-tec you have and ran it all summer. I have about the same hours as yours around 115, at least going by what my Garmin GPS says. Until I put the boat in the shop and have a laptop hooked up to it to get the real hours thats the best reading I have. I was told that with the XD 100 oil properly programed you should get 100 hours on a tank of oil. I just started my second tank. He said that E-tec's normally come programed for XD 50 oil and have to be programed for the XD 100. The rate you are burning is the rate of XD 50 as I understand, you might question that.

I do have the same problem with the plugs though. If I use it a lot for trolling the plugs do start to foul after a few hours, rough starting back up and a little stinky but no smoke. This was not a problem at first but started after around 40 hours. What I found was happening was trolling was fouling the plugs enough to cause the electrode to burn and widen the gap. The gap that should be 30 thousands +- 3% was out to 40 thousands. New set of plugs and I am back to normal running. I am now on my 3rd set of plugs, not good since they are supposed to last 300 hours. I am now setting up my kicker to troll with EZ Steer and Troll Master for next year as I have no problem if I don't troll with it at below 900 rpm for long times. My E-tec mechanic say Evinrudes have had a lot of problems in the past with running to cold at slow speeds in cold water and thinks this may be the problem.

The oil light problem, yes I to had that problem too but with me it was not a problem with the oil. I would start heading out, get about 5 min. run time and light would come on an engine would kick into idle to protect itself. I would reset every thing and it would be fine or maybe do it one more time. Well what I found by looking at my fuel lines, it was sucking all the fuel out of my kicker motor fuel line then sucking air. In fact it sucked it so hard it broke the valve in the squeeze ball for the kicker. I put fuel valves on both the main line and the kicker line so I can turn off the one not in use and have not had it happen since.

Well that is my experience so far with my E-tec and the Mech's. I still love the motor and have faith that they will work the few bugs out.

Wayne


I hope this info helps correct the problem you're having.(Four Pages)

KP
Posted: 10:42am - Mar 8,06
Don't listen to anyone that speaks out against four strokes. Honda has ONLY made four strokes for the boating industry the past 20+ years and they are one of the most reliable motors you can buy. No one can argue with that. I've been running Suzuki four strokes since 2000 and believe it to be one of the best and most technologically advanced motors available. Both Honda and Suzuki base their four stroke outboards on thier automobile and motorcycle engines. Millions of hours of proven performance goes into those motors.

The same can not be said for E-Tec. The previous poster addresses some very real possibilties that could lead to problems with the line. If you look at all the catastrophic failures in outboard design over the past 15 years, it all involved two strokes. Pushing the limits of lubrication in a very basic design that relies on proper lubrication. The FICHT design at one time was claimed to be the greatest thing on the water. That was before they started blowing up. People who spent $10K+ on their motors ended up with a total loss after OMC went belly up. It took 5 years to correct the problem that resulted in a very good two stroke. But not easily sold because of the FICHT name associated with earlier problems.

Don't get me wrong, the E-Tecs have so far proven to be very decent motors for most of those that own them. Not the WORLD BEATERS as their advertising suggest, but good motors none the less. Only time will tell if it's the real deal or not.

Posted: 12:34pm - Mar 10,06
Maybe you guys should read the independent testing conducted by Bass and Walleyes Boats magazine before you make the statements your making. I think you'll find it interesting.

Four strokes, by the way, do not load up when trolling. That is a trait of carborated two strokes. I can troll all day long with my four and throttle up without a hick up. The E-Tecs are able to troll very slowly because the idle can be electronically reduced by the dealer to around 600 RPM. But the two cylider motors shake like...a two cylinder motor. The new Yamaha four strokes have a troll master feature that drops the RPM equally as low without having to take it to the shop. And since their mid range though 300 HP motors are thre cylinder and more, the slow troll is much smoother.

Bass fishermen will typically use two strokes because most bass boat hull designs do not accomidate the extra weight of a four. But to say it's the choice in Walleye tourneys tells me you've never been to one or participated.

E-Tecs are a fine motor but anyone that says they blow away four strokes of equal size, correct propping, and setup, don't know what they're talking about. 1 or 2 MPH in a few unbiased case studies is not blowing away. You watch too many infomercials.

Not a dealer.

Posted: 12:34pm - Mar 10,06
I'm not speaking out against E-Tecs. I've already said they are fine motors. And I especially like the excellent technology they took out of the Rotax racing program like the ceramic coated cylinders that don't require break in. I raced Rotax motors in World Karting Association for a couple years and loved them. The power band was HUGE and kept on pulling past 15,000 RPM. It made gearing selection less of an issue.

What I'm addressing is the people who claim they are the greatest thing on water and four strokes don't come close to comparing. That is as false of information as you can get from people who have not reviewed all the independent testing that's been done. Heck, the biggest HP E-Tecs aren't even the fastest or most fuel efficient two strokes. That award still goes to the Mercury Optimax and Yamaha HPDI. But the margin is so small, it's hardly worth talking about. Same small margin as two stroke versus four strokes.

The shaking during slow trolling are complaints I've read from owners of mid range HP Tiller Handle E-Tec motors that have only two cylinders. I don't know what HP range that includes but the guys I talked to had 50 HP E-Tecs. And when your talking 500 or 600 RPM, of course it's going to shake. Any motor is struggling to stay running at that point. But a three or four cylinder motor has the counter balance effect that reduces vibration. I agree E-Tecs are quite and don't smoke near as much as older technology two strokes. If I was ever going to own a two stroke, the E-Tec would be at the top of my list.
_________________
KP

bt wrote:
Right now bombardier is revamping the evinrude line up and it's 50/50 whether it will last another year or not. I think they are looking to sell that division. They are moving almost all of their manufacturing over seas to make larger profits that to the eye makes it look like they are seeing larger growth with increased margins so they can sell the div. They are not even using their own brain boxes after this year on their e-tecs. They are putting the computer controls in the hands of someone else up to their supposed specs. A little fishy to me as Mercury is doing the same thing, but everything is Mercury made in a mercury plant by American ownership in asia. I think Evnirude will be bought by hopefully Suzuki, as that is who is making their 4-strokes, which are some of the best 4-strokes out there. I think if done right the transfer can and will happen. Plus you will get a better product than what Bombardier is trying to do right now.

Not true, Bombardier Corp. announced it will support warranties on the Evinrude and Johnson line of marine engines it is purchasing from Outboard Marine Corp. (OMC). See this link:

OMC has had 3 owners since 1997. Greenway was first to own and attemped to fix FICHT problems with no success. Brunswick then bought OMC and limited liabilities. They were able to resolve the FICHT problems but those with Greenway era motors had little to no success in getting warranty issues resolved with Brunswick. Bombardier Corp bought OMC including liabilities applicable to the Brunswick era only and does honor warranties on the now reliable FICHT motors.

Maybe people don't like B&W mag because they do fair comparative analysis. I'm not saying it's perfect. You still have to read between the lines. On the last shootout of the big two strokes, manufacturers were permitted to do all thier own rigging equal boats including their choice of speed props. So what's not fair about that? The E-Tec just so happened to come in last by very close margines. You think the E-Tec infomercial shootout was done on the up and up?
The Hole Shot Test
Running with "No oil"
"No Dealer Service for 3 Years"
"No Break-in Period Required"
The Drag Race
CO Emissions

AndyP
Posted: 10:21pm - Apr 2,06
glad i started a good conversation here. i'm wondering if the etec is going to hold up to being ran everyday, year round, working harder than the average angler uses one, as a workboat. The 4 stroke Johnsons, one of our two boats, have never hiccupped until the lower unit issues. Just thinking of the basic engine design between a four stroke and a two stroke, it just seems like the four would be the "tougher" motor. As an example of hard use, sometimes we have to tie a net to the bow of a boat and drag it out of the sand on the river bottom-several times a day.
I think it'll be cool to check out the new motor when we get it...should make the boat a few MPH's quicker too!

JDSPINNERS
Posted: 11:57pm - Apr 2,06
Had my choice between the e-tec and the Johnson/Suzuki four stroke 90hp's back in 2003. I chose the 4 stroke and am very satisfied with its performance and economy. It's so smooth and quiet, there's times when I've hit the key to start it when it's already running. Going into my fourth season without a glitch. There are many times I troll all day and never have any problems with fouling. Three plus years and many hours on the original plugs. Checked them this spring, left them in.

Problem is there are no more Johnson four strokes above 30hp for 2006. There contract with Suzuki is over. Dealers are selling off what stock is left and there is no word on the future of Johnson outboards as of yet. This came from a reputable dealer near me. Anyone heard about this???

Wallyboy
Posted: 01:14pm - Apr 6,06
I have had 3 Evenrude motors, the last one was a 150hp Ficht. This is supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. I had nothing but trouble from the start. I now have a 4stroke Yamaha and love it. I don't see what the big problem with maintenance on 4 strokes. I have the same spark plugs for 3 years and the only maintenance I have yearly is changing the lower unit oil, crankcase oil and fogging the motor. Big Deal!.
The E-Tech sound like a great motor, But with my experience with the ficht, I would wait a couple of years before I ventured into a new design and until it been on the market for several years



The Saltwater Edition Evinrude. E-TECTM provides all the same benefits of the blue E-TEC, but in the classic look most seagoing boaters prefer: white.
Each Saltwater Edition E-TEC outboard goes through 14 washing and rinsing cycles, a conversion coating, sealer, baked-on strontium chromate primer, and baked-on high-solids melamine top-coat. This prevents corrosion and increases the life of your engine.
Longer lasting components: Saltwater Editions use a stainless steel steering tube, steering arm, pivot shaft, drive shaft, prop shaft and fasteners.
Stay looking like new: Electro deposition paint creates an extremely durable barrier for added protection in a harsh marine environment.
Less corrosion: Split-line gearcase reduces corrosion.
Aluminum alloy: Low copper alloy used in aluminum casing resists corrosion.
Protect what's important: Sacrificial zinc alloys absorb the elements of corrosion to protect all operational components.




Suzuki is Your Best Choice

[RandyMoon]

Definately keep it simple.

When I got my 26M, I was like a 16 year old with a JC Whitney catalog wanting to spend every dime from the paper route on my first car. This board has more mods than you could do in a lifetime.

I would say safety items first. Put goal posts (PVC pipe) on your trailer to make sure you don't scuff your boat everytime you load it on the trailer. Put some guide ropes from the goal posts to the front of the trailer to make sure you don't get blown sideways across the trailer.

I would worry about the basics before you get into the super electronics. I spent 2 days over Memorial Day weekend buffing out scuffs out and waxing Rhapsody. I'd cover those bases first.