Poor Man's Traveler

Chip Hindes · Post by **Chip Hindes** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:18 pm

I must draw everyone's attention to the latest mod entitled Poor man's Traveler.

Sorry, Capt Kimo. The two red "snap shackles" used on the traveler mod are not snap shackles but replicas of climbing carabiners. I have probably a double handfull of these on my boat, but they are for novelty purposes like keyring hangers, and general but non load carrying stuff like hanging extension cords and coiled hanks of rope.

They are plainly stamped "not for climbing"; you can see it in the photos. Not only because they are not for climbing, but because they are cheap aluminum, are not tested for load carrying capability and have working loads which are so low it is not even published. They should never be used for standing or running rigging, anchoring or any other load carrying use.

Please use real marine grade, properly rated snap or pin shackles for this mod.

They Theirs · Post by **They Theirs** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:29 pm

Capt Kimo
I commend you for the Poor Mans Traveler. They have used a similar Traveler/Mainsheet/Bridle on the International Thunderbird One Design for many years. They are not as quick but can be just as efficient as a conventional traveler; some have won championship-racing events with this rigging design. No doubt Chip has a point with the potential for failure in the weak link, but the design looks great.
Nice job Capt Kimo.

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:57 am

Ditto Chip's post

Carabiners are great for gear hookups but not for rigging - I have some of those 'big ones' that are stamped rated for 150 pounds.....about 1/20 of what they would need to be rated for this mod.

I used one on an Ericson 32 for a main halyard snap shackle in an emergency and it bent like a pretzel in an hour.

Captain Kimo · Post by **Captain Kimo** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:24 am

You are right about the red "snap shackles". If you noticed I even gave you a clue when mentioning they were purchased at Home Depot, LOL.

They are stamped with 125 lbs test and I have used them for three years without incident. Possibly this is as a result of the dual main sheet which is much preferred over the single pedestle main sheet which allows for little trimming of the main sail.

When I get ahead on my SSA, plan to purchase the proper West Marine shackles. Keep working you all, so my COLA on my SSA will increase to afford me money to buy the big boat gear.

DLT · Post by **DLT** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:32 am

Not saying this is the way to go, but I have made liberal (somehow, I just hate using that word) use of the stainless snap links that Home Depot sells. They are rated much higher than the cheapo aluminum ones. They are also alot cheaper than the regular marine snap-shackles, even the biggest ones are under $10...

Night Sailor · Post by **Night Sailor** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

I haven't needed it yet on the Mac but on other boats I've used a single vang type system kept as a spare for preventer use when going downwind, as a means to pull the main to windward when going upwind. From boom to life line stanchion base or cleat. If you have a certain destination and must make time, or are in a narrow channel, it's very handy to emulate a traveler.

Captain Kimo · Post by **Captain Kimo** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:11 pm

DLT wrote:Not saying this is the way to go, but I have made liberal (somehow, I just hate using that word) use of the stainless snap links that Home Depot sells. They are rated much higher than the cheapo aluminum ones. They are also alot cheaper than the regular marine snap-shackles, even the biggest ones are under $10...

Not sure I have seen them. You are not referring to the "Quick Link" with the screw tube closers for closing the chain like link? I cruise Home Depot and the RV suppliers looking for items that will be useful on the boat.

Best items have been the bar rubber mat for the cockpit sole; the painters extension pole for a whisker pole using the West Marine end pole attachments; Glas Gloss for the fiberglas; 2x4 treated lumber for bunkers and battery supports in the bilge.

DLT · Post by **DLT** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:15 pm

Captain Kimo wrote:Not sure I have seen them. You are not referring to the "Quick Link" with the screw tube closers for closing the chain like link? I cruise Home Depot and the RV suppliers looking for items that will be useful on the boat.

No, they should be hanging right next to the rope and stuff...

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:02 pm

DLT is correct that HD has begun carrying a few stainless items now. They're on the Hardware aisle, same as nuts, bolts and rope. Look in the section where carded items are hanging from pegs - look for items with a yellow card, marked stainless. They have a very small selection of anchor shackles, carbiner-style quick links, a few other items - typical HD prices (about one-third of WM prices.)

Chip Hindes · Post by **Chip Hindes** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:48 am

I'm going to leave the discussion as to the inadvisability of using inadequate hardware.

How do you get the leeward component of the dual mainsheet arrangement past the lifelines?

What makes this system better or cheaper or less trouble, than the stock mainsheet attached to the pedestal and a proper boom vang?

It seems to me, as soon as the boom is sheeted ouside the rail attachment point on the leeward side, as on a broad reach or run, you still need a boom vang to keep the boom from lifting and destroying your sail shape.

Granted up front, the "stock" optional Mac 4:1 boom vang is marginal at best.

They Theirs · Post by **They Theirs** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:32 pm

Chip Hindes
Youre spot on Chip. The Stock 4:1 mainsheet purchases on the front top of the pedestal are complimented by the Vang. The Vang is used to help control the leech tension and is applied along with the mainsheet. The Traveler: or in this case the Bridle Mainsheet Traveler (of which there are many variations, most I note are end boom found on smaller boats). The traveler controls the angle of attack with the mainsheet and complimentary vang controlling the leech tension. They also benefit from a Boom-Kicker to support the boom (Topping Lift) in light air. Yes there very well can be some conflict with the lifeline stanchions and lines. It might be a benefit on this system to leave the cockpit lines off at times?

Pouw Geuzebroek · Post by **Pouw Geuzebroek** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:46 am

the Mod wrote:Picture 3: Shackled the lower end of the twin main sheets to the
Port and Starboard pad eyed cars on the Geona track.

Chip wrote:How do you get the leeward component of the dual mainsheet arrangement past the lifelines?

I was wandering about that too. But then I saw this picture on this board in Kevins Bimini treat. Look at the point where the main sheet is attached. I always wandered where that eye on the railing was for. Would that not be a better point to fix that shackle (cheaper too, saves the pad eyes on the Genua track

Captain Kimo · Post by **Captain Kimo** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:50 pm

Frank C wrote:DLT is correct that HD has begun carrying a few stainless items now. They're on the Hardware aisle, same as nuts, bolts and rope. Look in the section where carded items are hanging from pegs - look for items with a yellow card, marked stainless. They have a very small selection of anchor shackles, carbiner-style quick links, a few other items - typical HD prices (about one-third of WM prices.)

Thanks Frank C. Purchased 4 to replace the toy carbiner. They are called Spring Link SS 3/8" x 4" by LEHIGH with safe working load of 400 lbs. IMHO they are adequate at $6 apiece rather than the West Marine shackles at $30 to $50 apiece with the 2500 to 3500 lb test loads. I am looking at the thin strap like loop that is the connecting point at the top and bottom of the blocks and believe that is the weakest link in the main sheets block and tackle set up rather than the connecting devices, IMHO.

Also for the record, I have both Boom Vang and a static topping lift with a snap hook to the Aft boom bail. When using the single main sheet at the pedestle, I was never able to trim the after part of the boom as it always seem to be lifting. I don't have his problem now with the aid of the leeward main sheet.

With regards to use of life line stanchion pad eye, I would never trust them to hold a preventer myself. My life lines at the cockpit are detachable, and therefore don't interfer with booming out on a run using the leeward main sheet as a quasi preventer on a run.

Well Chip, I guess this means you would not accept my invitation to go sailing on Lake Mead

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:51 am

Capt K,
From reading the descriptions here I couldn't imagine how an aluminum snap shackle could possibly survive in the mainsheet tackle. But after looking at your pix, I'm pretty sure your aluminum shackles are the tooth-to-jaw style - which might be the reason they didn't just pull apart like saltwater taffy.

You're surely better off with those stainless replacements. Eventually the aluminum ones would have faced one of Mead's 60 mph freak winds and stretched-silly. But I'd bet it was those teeth on the aluminum gate that allowed them to serve for the time you used 'em.

If my work schedule cooperates, I hope to finally get down there for Mead Madness in late April. For Chip and others eastward, Lake Mead (Hoover Dam) is just outside of Las Vegas, about a 600-mile tow from San Francisco, across the southern Sierra Nevada range and the central CA desert.

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:13 am

Well Chip, I guess this means you would not accept my invitation to go sailing on Lake Mead

Oh Chip would accept in a heartbeat....first thing on arriving would to be to throw all your caribiners overboard...

Seriously, the thing I worry about is what happens when one of these fails..now you have an aluminum fishhook flailing around the cockpit and sails on a long line....not a pretty picture..

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com

Poor Man's Traveler

Poor Man's Traveler

Agreed with you all on "snap shackles"

Single system