distance towing

[mvillanueva]

Reading the posts in this forum about trailering, I am having a hard time finding the nuggets of information I need. This is my impression gained from reading so far: Distance towing is not a good thing to do regularly unless another axle is added, better brakes are installed, fenders ought not be drilled and remounted, and slightly larger wheels are used.

Is that a correct distillation?

I live in New Mexico and I would be towing to San Carlos and Southern California -- hopefully on a regular basis. Are those distances considered dicey for the Mac?

This is bothering me, after what I have read here, this is sounds like a deal breaker. To get the experience I need for my next step, I have to be able to tow the boat regularly 1400/1500 miles roundtrip 4-5 times a year.

Michael

[kmclemore]

Well, I can't really speak for regular towing on long distances, but I towed my Mac from New Mexico all the way up to Philadelphia - and that was with some horrendous crosswinds in NM and OK - and never had a problem.... and it's a bone-stock MacGregor trailer. Have also towed it from Phila to New Hampshire and down to the Chesapeake, too. Now, I'm certainly not going to say it's the best built trailer in the world, but for me it's been adequate.

Keep a careful eye on the tires, bearings, lug-nuts and such... it's like with any trailer... dilligent maintenance is key. And in particular with the Mac trailers, keep the rust at bay by keeping it painted and making sure you quickly touch up any dings, and keep caps on the goal-posts to prevent water entry.

[aya16]

The trailer is fine stock and most people that have added axles and the like do so for peace of mind and or special circumstance like towing the Mac in mexico or hard to get places. The cost of adding an axle is not much compared to the overall expense. As far as a deal breaker that would be up to you, but for me if I was concerned I would just add an axle. Your trailer would probable last longer than mine as you would be useing it more then me. I dont even get the bearings warm by the time I launch. So with regular maintanace your trailer should be just fine. I dont think Mac would put the boat on a substandard trailer. Just my opinion

[Frank C]

Distance towing is not a good thing to do regularly
- unless another axle is added,
- better brakes are installed,
- fenders ought not be drilled and remounted,
- and slightly larger wheels are used.

Is that a correct distillation?

Not quite .... in agreeing with both comments above, I'd say that you've compounded the safety additions that you found in archives here. A full explanation of Mac's trailers is lengthy, but maybe useful. First, ninety-five percent of the archived discussions relate to the 26X trailer, which had a 3,500# axle and tire capacity (actually 1,870# per tire for later models):

• - Adding an axle can improve tracking on the highway;
  - and it definitely doubles the tires on the ground;
  - and it improves all other trailer capacities (axles, spindles, bearings, springs);
  - but it impairs trailer maneuverability in close quarters;
  - and it might over-spring the boat;
  - regardless, you would NOT be increasing tire size if you're adding an axle.

By contrast, upsizing to 15" wheels and tires is a capacity-alternative that markedly improves on the factory's original tire capacity (14-inch for the 26X) and retains close-quarters maneuverability, but does nothing for the trailer's inate weight capacity. Comments about re-drilling the trailer frame related to lifting the fenders, but there are other, and better solutions for clearance between fenders and 15" tires.

The basic problem being addressed by the above upgrades was excess weight. According to the factory the 26X bare boat weighed 2,350 and the trailer 710, placing 3,060 pounds on the trailer, BEFORE adding an outboard or fuel. Since many were adding 400 to 500 pounds in large outboards and fuel, the trailer was nearing axle capacity before adding anchor, food, ice, tools, bedding and clothing ... you get the idea.

In reality, there's another 7 to 10 percent of spare "system capacity," since the tow vehicle carries that percentage of gross trailer weight at the tongue. Assuming that your tow vehicle is adequate, one can accomplish a sweet confluence of discretionary towing improvement:
- improve the safety margin at the tires & axle (very slightly),
- and simultaneously much-improve the trailer's tracking,
simply by shifting a bias toward more tongue weight. (Inadequate tongue weight is widely attributed as the primary cause of trailer tail-wagging).

So anyhow ... some 26X owners were experiencing blow-outs of trailer tires and/or tail-wagging trailers. particularly those who would tow for hours at freeway speeds, forgetting to stop for an hourly walk-around to check the temps of tires and hubs, and to look for grease-fling or any other signs of heat problems. Heat is the tire's worst enemy - low air pressure and excess weight contribute to tire heating. And extreme heat can cause grease to run, resulting in bearing failure. A simple walk-around can reveal these problems, but many of us are pushing to arrive - and ignoring these basics. Accordingly, maintenance failures, tire failures and tail-wagging have induced years of debate over exactly the best ways to improve the 26X trailer.

I had no tracking difficulties behind any of my several tow vehicles, and I valued maneuverability. Further, I was always very leery of the slim safety margin between tire capacity and net axle weight. I elected to simply upsize my wheels and tires instead of adding another axle. The 15-inch tires provide either 4,300 or 5,000 pounds of tire capacity (C-range or D-range), the focal point of inadequate safety margin, for me. Besides retaining maneuverability, it's considerably quicker and less costly to implement, since there's no welding required, and you don't even need to float the boat. You also avoid the cost doubling factors (and benefits) of fenders, axles, springs, etc. - saying nothing of the brakes.

All above ignored the question of brakes. Brake problems are probably more related to salt versus fresh water dunkings, and regular maintenance, rather than towing distances. But brake maintenance is dirty, messy and easily procrastinated ... I never bothered. When one of my drum brakes dragged (during a short, half-hour tow) it heated the drum, boiled the grease, toasted the bearing and actually warped the wheel and cooked the tire. Fanatical maintenance is the answer. But disk brakes are easier to flush and less prone to maintenance issues ... so it's a nice upgrade regardless of your towing scenarios, and regardless of the number of tires on the ground. IMO, just two brakes are plenty (for both stopping and regular maintenance) even if I had elected to add another axle - but Chip can provide good arguments for having twin axles and all four brakes.

Due in no small part to the record of consumer criticism available on this website (IMO), Macgregor Yachts finally upgraded the 26M trailer to include 15-inch wheels and tires, plus disk brakes. In the 3+ years it has been marketed, I've yet to hear of a 26M trailer tire blow-out, or any other towing failure, even though the 26M is a heavier boat. If you're buying a new boat - the question's moot. Whichever way you go, it doesn't justify nearly the degree of concern that you've described, especially if you have a beefy tow vehicle, like a standard pickup (which is a completely different topic).
Fair winds, and smooth roads!

[Randy Smith]

Frank, that was well stated and really shows thought....Likely, the best post on the trailer for the X that I have read. The second axle issue is one of comfort and worse case scenario and hey there is nothing wrong with that...but the trailer as is, is fine for what most are likely to do with the boat, home to water.....If I were to do 7000 miles a year on the trailer, I likely would opt for the second axle for peace of mind, not necessity.....I curently do 40 miles a year, "don't need no stinkin upgrades"

Randy

[LOUIS B HOLUB]

I trailer frequently a 60 mile trip...and have upgraded to Alum. wheels and larger tires. Ive had one problem, and it was my fault. I didnt torque the lugs, and at 55 mph after hearing a loud 'thud' I saw my starboard alum. wheel passing me up along the highway (not good). I pulled to the center 'turn lane' for a work site for repairs...and saw that all lug bolts sheared off with no pre-warning noise at all.
A good semaritan stopped, and we had it fixed in a couple of hours. I want to share my experience of this because those LUG NUTS like to come loose when not torqued. I have a pre-tow check list, that includes..Lug Nut Exam...
Fortunately my MacX suffered no damage...

Edit add on: If I did distance towing, I would invest in an aluminum, dual axle, trailer. I've been wanting to do that anyway, since we've discussed towing the boat more. Several Macs have alum. dual axle trailers in my Marina, theyre very nice.

[Chip Hindes]

Frank provides a pretty good summary of the pros and cons of dual axle versus upgraded wheels on a single axle trailer.

I have a few comments to add.

1) The manueuverability penalty of the two axle trailer is typically exagerrated by those who have single axle trailers. It's not a problem, though it can certainly tear up your lawn

2) For those who have not driven both, the benefits of a two axle, four brake trailer are virtually impossible to exagerrate in the areas of tracking, crosswind resistance, tail wagging, trailer hitching, and braking.

3) One thing I positively can't explain away: on the East Coast, where toll roads and bridges are common, you will pay more for the extra axle. Ticks me off as it's truly an artificial way to soak me extra $$ for no discernable reason, but there's nothing I can do about it. I estimate the extra axle may have cost as much as $40 extra, each way to FL. Probably not so much a problem on the West Coast.

In the five years I've owned it I've got something like 5,000 miles on my trailer with a single axle including one 3K mile round trip to FL, and probably another 8,000 miles since I added the second axle, including 2 more round trips to FL, 3K miles ea. I consider it the best mod (though admittedly by far the most expensive) I've made to date.

[Scott]

I like chip have towed with both a single and double axle trailer. I dont have near the miles that chip has.

I put another axle on my trailer almost entirely to get more tires back there in case of a blowout. I reduced the tire size and increased the number of tires. By doing it this way I lowered my center of gravity (not much Im sure but some) and increased my load capacity total at the contact patch. My tires are lower rated than the stock tires, I just have twice as many tires.

Even towing with the single axle I had no qualms about towing it at highway speeds. The stock setup is safe enough. Franks comment about tire pressure is correct, the number 1 cause of tire failure is underinflation.

[Lease]

Just one more point.

I have just unwittingly, and unwillingly towed an X 200 miles with full ballast tanks on the stock trailer.

A sidewall on one tyre got very hot, but slowing from 65 to 55 miles per hour (these conversions are killing me) cured it. Other than that, there were no bad behaviours from the single axle trailer.

I'm happy to take the idiot award for not realising what was going on - though in mittigation, I hadn't filled the tanks in the first place - but at least am reassured that there is quite a bit of reserve strength in the overall package.

[LOUIS B HOLUB]

I tow a "low boy" dual axle 16 ft. trailer when moving hay, or farm implements. I seem to have no problems handling it, hooking up, or trailing. That's one reason I dont think I'd have any problems with a dual axle Mac X trailer...even in tight spaces.
Maybe Santa will come early, and a nice aluminum dual axle trailer for my Mac-X will arrive...

[mvillanueva]

..... particularly those who would tow for hours at freeway speeds, forgetting to stop for an hourly walk-around to check the temps of tires and hubs, and to look for grease-fling or any other signs of heat problems.

Are you serious? A check every hour? Point taken. Onwards: How does one check the temp of the tires and hubs? Warm, hot, or YeeeeWaaaaZaa!!!!! to the touch?

(this is great way to translate your considerable experience into application by a willabe)

I didnt torque the lugs, and at 55 mph after hearing a loud 'thud'

What is the torque on the lugs? This tells me you need to use a real newton meter on the lugs. What is the setting? Or is this a tighten "by the experience" guideline?

Fantastic information posts!! Wow!! Zero noise to data!

Michael

[Compromise]

Very interesting reading for me as I'm about to embark on an 1100 mile trip towing the Mac.
I can honestly say I am on the fence (so to speak) on whether or not to spring for a new aliminium trailer and retire the stock X trailer.
Like many Mac owners I do have a concern with the quality of the stock trailer and it's ability to quickly rust. But then I read the thread from 'Lease' who unwittingly towed for 200 miles with full ballast
My non Mac friends have said as long as I have the bearings greased and have the spare tire ready to go I should be fine......
It seems like there are differing opinions just in this thread alone mmmm
I'd appreciate any additional input

[Lease]

Frank's precautions are not that far fetched. After all, 'Rest, Revive, Survive' mandates a stop every couple of hours anyhoo.

I've always been a bit cautious on the road. We pulled up for a fuel stop once and immediately saw there was smoke pouring out of the hub. An inspection revealed no bearing, brake pads down to metal, and the stub axle was squared off at the bottom. Some on the spot forensics found that the culprit was the bearing buddy. They are an interference fit as most would know, but this one must have been really hammered in because it had fractured the hub collar. Somewhere along the road, the collar had let go, the bearing buddy had departed, the grease had flung out, and the rest of the damage ensued. The wheel was only holding on by the caliper. The interval since the last walk-around was about 80 miles. I live in my mirrors when towing and never picked up a thing.

This was not on a Mac by the way. By happy circumstance, there was an engineering workshop in this particualr town that was able to cut the stub off, weld another on, and fit a new hub. Very lucky late on a Friday afternoon.

Before owning the Mac, I always carried a spare made up hub, as well as a wheel. Never had to use it (the incident above was way beyond that kind of fix), but took a lot of comfort that it was there.

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

I've towed Mac's (26C, 19, 26X, and 26M) well over 10,000 miles, probably over 20,000 miles, but I stopped counting.
Problems - With my 26C I started driving in the right lane and every time an 18-wheeler passed the rear of the trailer would get loose, so after that I kept up with traffic.
Coming back from Key West after hurricane Andrew, it was either go off the road or get hit by an overwide trailer coming from the other direction. I blew the right side tire and the trailer dropped several inches on that side. I put on the spare and continued north.
The tires on my Mac 19 are 13 years old so I am going to replace them. I may go with galvanized rims, maybe larger, or radial tires but haven't decided yet, but only because they need to be replaced anyway.
I never felt the need for a double axle on a Mac trailer.
The last boat I had before I got my first Mac had a double axle trailer, with 13" wheels, I believe. I removed both axles and put on a single axle with 15" wheels. Much better.
One thing I learned from that one is to touch the tire first before touching the wheel to see if it is warm.

[Robert]

I did have the ballast full while the boat was on the trailer once, but it was to keep the Mac26X from blowing away at home on the driveway while a hurricane passed. Only saw 65+ MPH winds, Mac26X stayed put, no trailer damage just sitting there. My kids enjoyed playing in the big puddle while draining ballast.