Excessive Heel

[keving]

I am new to sailing, but feel that my new Mac 26M is heeling way too much in moderate winds. I have the daggerboard all the way down and both rudders and feel I have no control. Am I doing something wrong???
When I took my sailing lessons on a runabout on the same lake I was sailing in heavier winds by myself with no problems ??????

[SURV69]

I've always heard that the water-ballast boats are "soft" to begin with(as far as healing is concerned), until a substantial amount of that ballast actually is raised out of the water, then the boat "stiffens" up nicely.

Don't forget, water in the bottom of the boat in a water medium is no ballast AT ALL. It has to be raised above the water before it has any effectual weight.

[Tom Spohn]

Keving,
1. Do you have an inclinometer to measure the actual heeling angle?
2. Have you installed streamers and telltales on your sails to tell you what the wind flow is doing?
3. You are filling the ballast-right?
4. You are disconnecting the motor-right?

As suggested above, the M actually has less initial stability than the X, but hardens up pretty well once under way. What point of sail and conditions are causing you the most grief?

[James V]

Dear Keving, The boats without weighted keels will heel more. 10 to 15 degrees is about the max you'll want to go. Some people like it, others don't. The way to handle it is to reduce sail or move people on the side that is up. Genoa to Jib, Reef main, remove Jib and, last take down Main. I don't like to be on the bow when it is rough out. Wearing a safety harness helps me feel secure when working the sails,
I've had many fun days on the water with only a reefed Main.

[RandyMoon]

Beside reefing, make sure your sail is as flat as possible in moderate to high winds. My halyard runs to the cockpit and I can winch my luff tight, and pull on the clew to get the foot tight.

In my area with normally moderate winds, my sail stays flat. Lots of shape to the sail can make handling in moderate wind tricky.

[Tom Spohn]

Take a look at this site for ideas on how to control heel:

http://www.sailingusa.info/keelboat.htm

[baldbaby2000]

I've been trying to find solutions to this since I got the boat. My wife and I probably weight a total of 320 lbs and that's not quite enough to sail the boat comfortably over a wide range of conditions. I use the jib most of the time now instead of the genoa. If the wind is above about 15 knots we reef. The problem is when it's only gusting to over 15 on occasion. If you reef then you may be underpowered at other times. We were in almost 20 knot winds yesterday with the 2 of us and my niece who weighs maybe 95 lbs soaking wet. It was almost controllable with the 3 of us with a full main and stock jib; rail meat definitely helps.

I've decided to try adding weight to the keel but haven't decided on the method yet. See the thread: http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... ghted+keel

BB

[Frank C]

BB,
I think yours is a 26M ?? ... maybe you're right that an extra body helps in those higher winds, but maybe not on my X.

Just one opinion, 20 knot winds in a 26X ... is 5 knots beyond where the main needed reefing. But I don't find much benefit from reefing the jib. The boat is already prone to weather-cock in those winds, so it really needs that extra force on the bow. The X's problem is too much mainsail in those conditions - hence the early reef.

Agreeing with you too ... a Genoa needs reefing at about 12 knots and it's overpowering at 15 knots.

[keving]

Would a broken dagger board or one not properly down cause the boat to heel a lot............almost going over above 60 degrees

[DLT]

Actually, as Moe pointed out, the dagger board contributes to heeling...

The wind pushes the top of the boat one way, while the dagger board pushed the bottom the other...

So, having the dagger board fully up, ought not to induce heeling. It might actually reduce it. But, of course, you'd be making lots of leeway...

Heel is properly reduced by ballast. The lower the better...

Obviously, there are a lot of factors that cause a boat to heel or not to heel...

[James V]

You might get a second reef in the main.

[Tom Spohn]

I think before Keving's question can be answered we need some data:
1. What is the heeling angle?
2. What is the wind speed? (or estimated Beaufort no. deduced from the wave conditions)
3. Is the boat ballasted?
4. What sails were up? (main + genny or jib?) 100% or reefed
5. How many people on board? Where were they?
6. What were the telltales and streamers on the sails doing?

[ALX357]

Would a broken dagger board or one not properly down cause the boat to heel a lot............almost going over above 60 degrees

no way the boat was anywhere near 60 degrees of heel
60 degrees puts the drink in your cockpit .....
maybe meaning 30 degrees..... ??

[richandlori]

on the water, 15 deg of heal can feel like 45 deg, so I agree with Tom, what angle of heal are we talking about 10, 20, 30?

I don't think I could get my 26M past 45 deg if I tried without it rounding up, which is fine, why would you want to heal that much anyway.

Rich

[Dusty]

After reading everyones comments on this topic of wind conditions, boat control and heeling I have a question....

I have a 1994 Mac 26 S. Do your comments also apply to my style boat, or are there design differences between S, X, and M that someone would have to be specific in their comments that would apply only to the S design ?

Many thanks,
Roger