Ballast valve does not close - 26s

[JamesToBoot]

Hey y'all,

Got a bit of a pickle. The water ballest valve on my newly purchased 26s project does not seal. I checked it for debris but found nothing. Tightened as hard as I could by hand. Still leaks.

The amount of water it leaks almost keeps up with my weak garden hose.

I took a look at it today and it looks like the assembly is new, esp when compared to the rest of the 30 year old boat. Gasket, threaded rod, little rod, top gasket, washer, and threaded handle, safety ring... All look new. No rust, no corrosion, no warping of the rod (I put it on a flat table and rotated it).

However, you can see from the picture, and even moreso by eye, that one side does not tighten down on the gasket.

It doesn't matter which way you rotate it (I tried every whole twice) the gap is on the same side and looks to be the same width.



The picture is taken w the valve closed as tight as I can by hand (pretty tight).

My thought was to add a 1/4th inch neoprene foam pad (or two) between the gasket and the steel plate to provide more uniform pressure... Or maybe double the gasket?

What are your thoughts for a fix? This is not something I want to worry about while my wife and chikdren are sailing w me.

Thank you for all you're awesome help!

[OverEasy]

Hi JameToBoot!

Boy have you been busy..l top to bottom! Literally!

Maybe this will help.
Here are a couple of images from the Mac26S manual found in the “Resources “ section of the forum:




If the top penetration guide/support was bent off to a side it would affect the piloting of the gate plug shaft where it seals to the hull.
Given you checked the shaft and it’s true you Maybe want check that the top guide isn’t distorted.
You mentioned that this hardware appears newish so maybe something happened with the old bits like the valve got snagged when beaching, loading or unloading from the trailer.

Just a thought…..

Best Regards,
Over Easy

[JamesToBoot]

Hey @OverEasy,

Yes Sir, I've had the time and the energy, so I've been going thru every part in the boat. Finish something or hit a snag, pivot/research/ask for help.

The boat is new-to-me and the PO didn't know anything about the boat or sailing. It was sentimental to his family but sitting in a field and not getting any newer.

I do have this picture from the manual. I've looked it over a couple times to clean something I'm missing from it. No luck.

In the second figure with the parts labeled, B C D E F G H I are all apart of the 'CENTER VALVE ASSEMBLY, 26C' from bwy:
https://reeua-fzzpa.volusion.store/prod ... 02-1c0.htm

This entire assembly appears to be brand new from the PO... Not even dirty.

D and F (disk and shaft) are welded together. Brand new parts can be warped too... So I checked it on a flat surface by placing the disk flat on the table and rotating it, looking for wobble in the shaft. None that I can see w the eye.

No matter how its rotated in the boat, the gap is always on the same side of the boat, which would indicate the assembly is straight, but the boat bottom is not.

[JamesToBoot]

Here are some more pics:

Against the flat edge, I can see that the rod is bent.

Even so, its not enough to tell against the hull. The gap is always on the same side of the boat, no matter what way this piece is rotated (the manual does not specify any direction its supposed to be rotated).

Anti-twist pin away from us, a slight gap at the bottom:


Anti-twist pin close to us, slight gap at the top:


Gap measurement of less than 1/8 inch. Again, I don't think this is enough to make any difference, especially when considering the gap between the valve and the boat is always on the same side of the boat, no matter which was this valve is rotated.

[JamesToBoot]

I got a reply back from bwy email I sent today:

=====================================
You could try a thicker / softer gasket. If the hull seems flat, but just not square to the valve plate, you could also try bending the valve slightly so that is crooked enough to match the boat

Todd M.

Blue Water Yachts
MacGregor Parts & Accessories
=====================================

Hearing back from the experts confirming my thoughts definitely makes me feel better.

What are your thoughts? Do they differ?

[JamesToBoot]

Parts Ordered:

I ordered another gasket set from BWY to double up on the gaskets for better sealing:
CENTER VALVE GASKET SET, 26C
https://reeua-fzzpa.volusion.store/prod ... 03-1c0.htm

and I ordered 1/2" neoprene foam rubber if the double gasket isn't enough to fill the gap.

We shall see how this works...
the objective is to seal the gap with as sturdy material as possible with as little added thickness as possibe.

[Jimmyt]

Doubling the gasket is certainly an easy solution, if it works. If not, I would get some marine Tex or epoxy, and build up the “seat” on the hull to match the alignment of the valve.

You are right to correct this before going sailing with your family. I’ve been on an in-ballasted 26s at the dock. It’s pretty tender. Losing ballast while sailing might get pretty sketchy.

[JamesToBoot]

Thanks @Jimmyt,

Marine-Tex: says it handles like putty, hardens like steel, and sands like wood... looks like a marine version of JB Weld.

I understand what you're saying. Use the stuff (marine-tex, epoxy, tiger hair, etc) to fair the surface of the valve seat (hull of the boat) to match the valve assembly.
I like you're idea. Im trying to think of how best to do it?
-Maybe cover the valve assemble in a couple layers of suran wrap
-prep surface
-squish the putty into the hull
-tighten the valve assembly loosely into the putty
-clean up and open up holes from putty squish out
-????

I do like the idea of adding something more structual than neoprene foam (if double gaskets isn't enough). I might worry about it sticking to the hull or cracking due to flex causing a like or the valve assembly not to close.

How would you do this... what would you change?

[JamesToBoot]

@Jimmyt

I have heard that the 26 is tender at start and stiffens up as it heels. I had not heard that the 26s is more tender than the x or m... but I could definitely see that due to the harder chines on the x/m and the s having more of a traditional sailing hull shape vs the x/m having more of a squared off / flat plaining hull.

We are coming from a Precision 18, a molded in 400lb keel with an unweighted centerboard style boat thats 1000 lbs. Some have called it a ballasted dinghy. Others commented its more of where you come from that makes the difference. If you come from a bigger keel boat it feels flaky and if you come from dinghys its much more stiff.

Seems how the 26s is a great deal longer, more than twice as heavy when ballast is full, and has better comfort / capsize numbers than the P18, I am estimating the 26s to feel more comfortable for the family.

In reality, we don't have much of a choice... its this or a boat like the P23 which is much shorter and a lot LESS spacious (towing weight and ease deployment are huge limiting factors for us). I love how tank-like the P23 (and other comparable boats like the oday line) is compared to the 26... but if we can't fit and the family doesn't enjoy it, its a moot point.

I think the 26 is going to be the best compromise of any sailboat we're going to find, so Im learning as much as possible and going thru every system, the water ballast and valve assembly being very high on the safety list.

I think there is a great theory: buy the best boat you can and make it as safe as possible, so when you're on the water you can keep your mind on other issues. The more things you juggle, the more likely you are to make mistakes.

[Be Free]

Silly question: did to confirm that the counter top was level before doing your measurement? If the part is always 1/8" out of plumb no matter how you rotate it then it might not be sitting on a level surface.

Have you inspected the bottom of the boat for damage around the valve opening? An irregularity that is beyond the "flex" in the gasket should be noticeable. Place a straight edge over the hole and rotate it. See if you can see anything that is non-symmetrical. I think you will find the source of your problem there.

The valve was meant to mate to a flat surface. If you find an irregularity just fair the area around the opening and you should be able to get a seal. I'd try that rather than pressing the valve into wet marine-Tex.

Good luck!

[JamesToBoot]

Silly question: did to confirm that the counter top was level before doing your measurement? If the part is always 1/8" out of plumb no matter how you rotate it then it might not be sitting on a level surface.

Have you inspected the bottom of the boat for damage around the valve opening? An irregularity that is beyond the "flex" in the gasket should be noticeable. Place a straight edge over the hole and rotate it. See if you can see anything that is non-symmetrical. I think you will find the source of your problem there.

The valve was meant to mate to a flat surface. If you find an irregularity just fair the area around the opening and you should be able to get a seal. I'd try that rather than pressing the valve into wet marine-Tex.

Same questions I have thought over as well:

as you can seen the pictures, the valve is very slightly bent. I believe its well within spec. I had to put it against a flat surface and use a straight edge to tell that there was any deflection. As to the surface not being level when I used to measure, I used multiple surfaces and used multiple straight edge's to get the same results every time.

As to not being plump, I was referring to the valve seat on the bottom of the boat. No matter what way I rotate the valve, the gap is always in the same place on the hull, leading me to believe the hull may be off a little. It may be that with the slight deformation in the valve assembly, its enough to cause it to leak.

I did inspect the mess out of the boat. Its thick! maybe half inch or more where the valve seat is in the hull. I can see no damage or stress anywhere in the underwater structures or at the top of the ballast tank, which is also thick (maybe 1/8th inch or more). I can cause no visible flex or hear cracking of fiberglass no matter how tight I turn the valve.

Another aspect is I could be a wimp and just not turning the valve tight enough.... but its tight. Everything Ive read in the manual and seen on macgregors promo vids or watch on youtube channels leaves me to believe it is tight enough.

[Jimmyt]

Thanks @Jimmyt,

Marine-Tex: says it handles like putty, hardens like steel, and sands like wood... looks like a marine version of JB Weld.

I understand what you're saying. Use the stuff (marine-tex, epoxy, tiger hair, etc) to fair the surface of the valve seat (hull of the boat) to match the valve assembly.
I like you're idea. Im trying to think of how best to do it?
-Maybe cover the valve assemble in a couple layers of suran wrap
-prep surface
-squish the putty into the hull
-tighten the valve assembly loosely into the putty
-clean up and open up holes from putty squish out
-????

I do like the idea of adding something more structual than neoprene foam (if double gaskets isn't enough). I might worry about it sticking to the hull or cracking due to flex causing a like or the valve assembly not to close.

How would you do this... what would you change?

Using the valve as a mold and lightly pressing it onto the “puttied” seat is one way. Building up the seat, then align-grinding it true is another approach. It’s likely more complicated, since it was my first thought (if you’ve seen my mod threads - you know that the most complicated, labor intensive approach is the way I roll).

Anyway, the seat area surround looked like it had been scuffed up a bit, so I was thinking the seat might need some attention as well. Your description of the leakage rate indicated that the valve disc and seat were not close to properly mating.

I would get a piece of steel rod, matching the valve stem diameter; thread one end of it; put a metal or wooden disc, with sandpaper glued to it, between two nuts; then spin it with an electric drill. If the rod extends through to the inside, you should get a good alignment.

I think the 26S is going to be a great boat for your future adventures. I hope my post was not misconstrued. I have the M which has some permanent ballast, so an S without the water ballast felt noticeably more tender. But, it should be. As you say, it’s all in what you’re used to. If I had stepped on the side of a sailing dinghy, the S would have felt solid by comparison. Many S owners enjoy their boats and sail them all over. They are reportedly much better sailing boats than the M,

[Be Free]

Roger made some significant changes to the ballast valve between your model and mine so I don't know the answer to this one. Can you fill the tank from a garden hose from inside the cabin? On the "X" the air vent and the water valve are independent so the tank can be filled through the air vent with the transom valve closed.

If you can do the same you would be able to see if the ballast valve under the boat is leaking when you have it completely closed. It's possible that the valve is actually sealing regardless of how it looks.

As an aside: On multiple occasions I have filled the ballast and "sunk" my boat on the trailer as part of my hurricane preparation. I figure that is good up to about a Cat 3. For a Category 4 I also strap it down and for a Category 5 it's drained and attached to the truck when I'm evacuating.

[Be Free]

Jimmy,
You sound like you've lapped valves before.

JamesToBoot,
I'd agree with Jimmy regarding the tenderness of your boat. It's going to be a bit more tender than his or mine but coming from your dinghy pedigree I think you will be quite comfortable. I met up with an "S" owner at an event once and he was very happy with his boat. He only had three or possibly four on board (can't remember how many children) but he had sailed more than 20 miles in the open Gulf to get to where I met him. He was also noticeably faster than I was even though I was single-handed.

You are going to have fun!

[Jimmyt]

Jimmy,
You sound like you've lapped valves before.

You have a keen sense of deduction, Bill. I’m impressed.
Lucky to grow up with a dad and uncle that worked on stuff. I was “helping” my dad build a ford flathead v8 while I was still in diapers.