How well do MacGregors sail compared to other 22-27 ft keelboats?

[duganderson]

Interested in a MacGregor due to easy trailering, large capacity for sleeping on boat and ability to motor fast if necessary; however, I mostly like to sail. I would use on mid and large lakes in MN and Lake Superior.

Curious how well you feel they sail, handle wind/storms, etc. compared to other keelboats in the 22-27 ft range? There are a lot of haters on how they sail but most of the people don't sound like they've actually been on one.

Curious if any of the different models (X, M, etc.) sail better under certain conditions?

THank you, Doug

[NiceAft]

If you are looking to race, then do not purchase an or If you are looking to sail for love of sailing, then the above choices are good.

There are compromises with our boats. We do not sail as well as keel boats. We do not power as well as power boats. The fact that Rodger MacGregor sold many thousands of Mac’s is testimony to the quality of our boats. A good example is the site you are on. Many of us have owned our boats more than fifteen years. Some, twenty.

Three have taken their’s on the Great Loop. Many go out for several days, and some just for day sailing. Which will you be?

[duganderson]

I am not looking to race.

Curious if folks can articulate the ways in which the Macgregors don't sail as well as other keel boats? Is it speed, bounce around more, tippy, lack of speed, sailing in high wind or high waves, lack of strength or quality of winches, stays, etc., inability to get the sail shape you want, pointing ability, etc.?

Curious also about comparisons of the difference Macgregor versions (M, X, etc.) related to these characteristics?

Thanks, Doug

[Jimmyt]

The S or D would sail quicker than the X or M, and are closer to a true sailboat. That said, you can see 6.5-7 knots in an X or M. Pointing, well, that’s another issue. I think the PHRF is around 270 where folks have tried to race them. There are slower sailboats.

The initial heel of a water ballasted boat is the biggest adjustment compared to a fixed ballast keel (my opinion). You also need to be careful on deck with the ballast empty. If you and two of your biggest buddies decide to step off the dock, at the same time, onto the deck - well it might get dicey.

It depends on how bloated your boat is with large outboards, oversized fuel tanks, fresh/black tanks, extra ground tackle, fridge, and 6 cases of beer, too.

I sail my M 90+% of the time. So, I think it sails just fine. But, I day sail on a large bay that allows me to get on a reach in virtually any wind direction. If I had to beat to windward everytime, I’d probably use a lot more gasoline.

This is somewhat dependent on your sail selection (and condition) and how good you are at trimming, too.

[duganderson]

Thanks for the detailed review.

What angle do they tend to point at? (I'm mostly sailed beach cats generally without daggerboards so I'm not used to pointing super high)

How do they handle heavy winds?

When your talking about the initial heel, I'm guessing your suggesting they heel quickly for the first portion of the heel. Once you get settled on a new tack, is it tippier than another keelboat once you get past the first 5-10 degrees of heel?

Thank you!~. Doug

[dlandersson]

Ok, to be honest, I've never seen 6.5 knots, that's a tad optimistic for most.

The S or D would sail quicker than the X or M, and are closer to a true sailboat. That said, you can see 6.5-7 knots in an X or M.

[Starscream]

I am not looking to race.

Curious if folks can articulate the ways in which the Macgregors don't sail as well as other keel boats? Is it speed, bounce around more, tippy, lack of speed, sailing in high wind or high waves, lack of strength or quality of winches, stays, etc., inability to get the sail shape you want, pointing ability, etc.?

Curious also about comparisons of the difference Macgregor versions (M, X, etc.) related to these characteristics?

Thanks, Doug

To be fair, Macs should be compared against other 26 ft boats. The longer the boat, the higher the hull speed so it's normal for longer boats to be faster.

To be more fair, Macs should be compared against other trailer sailors. Comparing a trailer-sailor to a keelboat is kinda like comparing a camping trailer to a house It's normal for heavier boats to behave more comfortably in the wind and waves.

I think my X sails just fine for what it is. Comfortable for its size and weight. Predictable. Safe. I've kept up with, and even passed, 28 footers on certain points of sail, but if top speed is your priority under multiple points of sail, then there are many, many faster boats. But none that do what the Mac does.

In my experience, the biggest weakness that the Mac26X has against other sailing boats is its difficulty in tacking. It's not hard to complete a tack, but it's hard to complete a CRISP tack. It's a light boat, with a lot of windage, and it just doesn't have the momentum and control surfaces to do a sharp tack and end up on your new heading quickly. Tacking the 26X usually includes losing a ton of speed to get through the tack, then falling off on the new tack by maybe an extra 45 degrees and losing a few hundred feet downwind before being able to head back up close to the wind. This is NOT a boat that you could short-tack up a channel very easily. Or at all, if your sailing skills are like mine.

[Stickinthemud57]

A keelboat will almost invariably be a better choice in situations where you might be sailing in winds at or over 25 mph. The are usually more stoutly built, and the weight of the keel below the waterline will provide considerably more stability with less heeling.

[duganderson]

This is all GREAT information!

Any thoughts about whether or not the X OR M sails better or differences in them?

Do you find that MacGregors are super tender? If so, does that occur in the the first 15 degrees or when do you notice this the most?

[Be Free]

Thanks for the detailed review.

What angle do they tend to point at? (I'm mostly sailed beach cats generally without daggerboards so I'm not used to pointing super high)

How do they handle heavy winds?

When your talking about the initial heel, I'm guessing your suggesting they heel quickly for the first portion of the heel. Once you get settled on a new tack, is it tippier than another keelboat once you get past the first 5-10 degrees of heel?

Thank you!~. Doug

If you work at it you may be able to sail a little better than 40 degrees true wind but you won't be going very fast. Fall off a few degrees and you will see improvement. I also came from a beach cat to the MacGregors but I never had any issue with pointing on mine. In my case the Mac points noticeably worse than the beach cat.

They handle heavy winds just fine if you adjust accordingly. I've been in some very rough conditions for extended periods and I never felt like the boat was struggling. I'm sure I will give up long before the boat does.

You can run with all sails up to around 15 knots. I put one reef in the main around 15, second reef around 20 knots, and switch to power boat mode if I'm expecting extended 25+ knots. This will keep the boat heeled no more than 20 degrees (an efficient angle for the Mac).

The first 10 degrees or so of heel happens very quickly and it will take getting used to. Once the windward portion of the ballast tank gets above the water line it hardens up quickly. The heel-to-wind response after it hardens up is consistent. You will quickly get used to the quick initial heel and then the predictable hardening as the ballast begins to work. I honestly don't even notice it any more.

[duganderson]

If you work at it you may be able to sail a little better than 40 degrees true wind but you won't be going very fast. Fall off a few degrees and you will see improvement. I also came from a beach cat to the MacGregors but I never had any issue with pointing on mine. In my case the Mac points noticeably worse than the beach cat.

They handle heavy winds just fine if you adjust accordingly. I've been in some very rough conditions for extended periods and I never felt like the boat was struggling. I'm sure I will give up long before the boat does.

You can run with all sails up to around 15 knots. I put one reef in the main around 15, second reef around 20 knots, and switch to power boat mode if I'm expecting extended 25+ knots. This will keep the boat heeled no more than 20 degrees (an efficient angle for the Mac).

The first 10 degrees or so of heel happens very quickly and it will take getting used to. Once the windward portion of the ballast tank gets above the water line it hardens up quickly. The heel-to-wind response after it hardens up is consistent. You will quickly get used to the quick initial heel and then the predictable hardening as the ballast begins to work. I honestly don't even notice it any more.

This was a VERY helpful response for me. I appreciate that clarification.

Curious if folks find a similar experience on the 26M?

[LordElsinore]

This was a VERY helpful response for me. I appreciate that clarification.

Curious if folks find a similar experience on the 26M?

I would say that's accurate for my M at least. MacGregor's marketing materials claimed the M was newer/faster/better and shows comparisons in the video, but that's marketing and there are people on this forum who would never trade an X for an M.

There are differences between the two in hull layout, rotating mast (on the M), backstay (only on the X), number of rows of windows, space available for fuel tanks, etc. Even the interior layout of the M and X themselves changed significantly throughout the years.

I don't know if my rotating mast on my M gives me a performance boost or not. I do know that it makes it more difficult to have an electronic wind direction sensor, and that mounting a radar on it someday would be difficult (some people find ways to lock their rotating masts). I know my mast is heavier than that of an X. I like the sliding galley. I think I like the lack of backstay. But both are great boats for how we use them

[DaveC426913]

Our (and by "our" I mean "her") only criterion for choosing over came down to location of the head. Admiral didn't want the head next to the V-berth as in the .

(Ironically, I don't think she's ever used it on a trip. We sail from arina to marina so anything can wait for a civilized toilet.)

[DaveC426913]

In my experience, the biggest weakness that the Mac26X has against other sailing boats is its difficulty in tacking. It's not hard to complete a tack, but it's hard to complete a CRISP tack. It's a light boat, with a lot of windage, and it just doesn't have the momentum and control surfaces to do a sharp tack and end up on your new heading quickly. Tacking the 26X usually includes losing a ton of speed to get through the tack, then falling off on the new tack by maybe an extra 45 degrees and losing a few hundred feet downwind before being able to head back up close to the wind. This is NOT a boat that you could short-tack up a channel very easily. Or at all, if your sailing skills are like mine.

I was patting msyelf and my crew on the back the other day completing a tack with a whopping 2 knots residual speed. (This is from doing 3.5 knots in a 5 knot wind).

But yes, my tacks are wide. Usually, 110 degrees, maybe 120. I am tickled pink if I make a 100 degree tack.

[Ixneigh]

Hi. I’ve had my M for nearly fifteen years. I’m a sailor with experience in various boats, and have taken both a heavy keelboat of 23 ft and a V 22.2 to the Bahamas for months at a time. My largest boat was a 33ft yawl but I never took her out of thd Florida keys. I sail my boat almost all the time and probably only use the engine on WOT a couple times a month just to clear the fuel injectors. So, here are my thoughts.
I got the boat because she’s the roomiest shallow draft boat available. And I like shallow water sailing. Since I live in the keys. The very fast compared to other boats in 3ft deep water. In fact I’ve passed much larger boats like they were standing still. Oh. The were. Cuz they were aground.
All jokes aside. In sheltered water, in mild conditions these boats are slower than many but not all of comparable length. They don’t point as well as a keel boat, and the picky tacking thing is true. The boats are light with a lot of windage so you need to be paying attention. You need to have way on the boat and even then she’s barely willing. In deep water chop or larger waves, you may need the engine to do it.
The boats, despite Rogers video on the now defunct website, are not creatures of deep water. They can do it in a pinch, to get to good cruising grounds. But they are not deep water passage makers. Nor is the inside at all suited for such tasks.
There are literally 5O boats under 30 ft that are fine deep water boats. There are 50 boats that are trailerable. but only the macgregors have standing headroom and a large engine if you want, and will still sail to some degree in the bargain. Sail fine off the wind. Sail marginally ok up wind.
Unless.
Your preferred cruising grounds are stewn with reefs, grassy shoals, muddy sloughs, water so shallow that it’s hardly water. The “no one goes over there” water. The “how on earth did you get here in a sailboat?” Water. My kind of water. Then, the boat sails frickin great. The X is a little better due to its kick up centerboard. But the M will do a beam reach with no board at all and just the rudders down. Maybe a few degrees above a beam reach, thanks to the rotating mast. You know what that means? It means bombing across sand bars that are anything but the whitest white. It means lurking across areas with no soundings at all with just a main, scaring the stingrays. It means anchoring in water so shallow it’s calm even if it’s blowing 30 knots. It means I can sail for days on end by eye.
The M model is also the driest small boat I’ve ever sailed. I returned from Elliot key in 20-25 knots of wind, closehauled with just a reefed main, scarcely got a drop of water on me. In my 23 ft keel boat, same leg, same winds, I’d be wearing a rain slicker, and only doing a half a knot better.
The M is a very helpful boat if you need to change sails. Which I love about her since I use the Hank on jibs. I usually put the main up, pull up the anchor, sail out a ways and then raise the jib. The boat will wait for me kind of parked with her head into the wind a bit, while I do it. And she won’t freak out and suddenly fall off once it’s hoisted before I can get back to the cockpit. She’ll do the same thing while im dealing with ground tackle. It’s a little thing, but also one of my favorite things about her. She also doesn’t have a horrible roll while anchored. She doesn’t misbehave while anchored in current, in some cut somewhere. She lies calmly splitting the different between wind and water. Not having a total spaz like my keel boat, which used to do the MOST annoying antics. She was a pretty boat, that one. But I sure don’t miss that nonsense!

Ix