Sail Twist - an issue for Macs?

[Be Free]

Drifter,
The material you are reading called it a "fairlead" instead of a "pulley" because the simplest setup would use a fairlead on the jib (or genoa) car instead of a pulley. From a practical standpoint the pulley is doing the same job as the fairlead in that its only purpose is to change the direction of the pull. There is no mechanical advantage in the pulley vs a fairlead in the same position. The pulley has less friction which makes adjusting the jib (or genoa) easier.

The "X" does not come with a traveller and installing one is difficult. The best location for it would cut your cockpit in two and require you to climb over it. Again, the performance increase would be minimal and (in my opinion) inconvenience would be unreasonable. It would help you point a little higher (sail more into the wind) but even that would not outweigh having it in the way all the time (in my opinion).

The jib car runs on a track on the cabin top. The genoa track uses the same cars but is mounted on the gunwales (top edge of the outside walls of the boat) in the cockpit. You would use one or the other; never both at the same time (unless you are Highlander ). You can slide the cars off the track and put them on either track as needed.

I agree that someone has confused "twist" with "draft". Twist occurs in the edge of the sail; draft is in the big, sort of flat middle of the sail.

If you don't have telltales on your sails it would be helpful to add them. You can make them yourself or buy them ready-made. In general, they should be pointing backwards and they should be doing the same thing on both sides of the sail. They are showing you how the wind is flowing across and exiting your sail. Reading about them never made sense to me. I had to go out and see (and feel) how they worked.

I think a lot of the theory would start to "click" if you get out on the water and see how it all works together. Start on a nice day (7-10 knots), raise the sails and see how it feels.

[NiceAft]

Maybe I (and the articles I'm reading) are confusing sail twist with sail draft? They're 2 different things?
Top

I understand your desire to learn all there is about sailing, but maybe you should hold off until the concept to learn is more at hand (actually on the water in a sailboat) than cerebral

The other thing is that our boats do not perform as well a traditional keel boats.
I think that Be Free really said it best; " I'm not giving away any secrets here when I say that "performance" and "26X" (or "M") are seldom discussed in a positive way. Think of it this way, if you were going to run a 5K in your dress shoes it would help to make sure that your laces were tied (but not much)."

I'm sure you will continue to get good advice, but without being on the water to actually apply the concepts, it's a ll just theory. Keep up any repairs/mods, just don't let all of the technical jargon and concepts frustrate you. You really need to be on the water to fully comprehend.

I didn't know what a fairlead is,now I know. I'll probably forget by next spring Sailing for close to sixty years without needing to know Don't whip yourself into a frenzy.

[Drifter]

See?

[Be Free]

See if this helps remember how to control twist.

You don't cause twist. The wind causes twist. All you do is loosen up the edge of the sail to allow the wind to add twist.

When the boom is pulled down tightly (usually with the vang) the sail is tight and the wind can't give you twist. When the boom is allowed to rise (slightly) the sail is looser and the wind can give you twist.

When the jib car (with a pulley or fairlead on top) is moved forward the angle of the jib sheet tightens the top of the jib (preventing twist). When it is moved back the angle allows the top of the jib to be looser (by allowing the bottom edge of the jib to rise) and the wind can now cause twist.

When the boom or the bottom of the jib are pulled down closer to the deck you get minimal twist. When they are allowed to rise it allows slack in the top part of the sail and you get twist.

Does that help?

[NiceAft]

I think you should have quit with your shoelace analogy

[Drifter]

Sorry for the rather cryptic post and the single word 'See?' - I'm hammering myself from all directions at the moment (I now have a side biz of online hypnotherapy, taking 2 more courses in that plus working on the website, plus learning sailing plus keeping up with client's work plus landscaping my garden...)

A quick overview again:

• In (on?) Malaysian Borneo, with permanent residency but not Malaysian
  Cannot get local boat license, need some form of international boat license
  Which means I cannot take my boat out without risking a fine and/or boat confiscated
  Any crime conviction could endanger my residency status
  Going for the UK's RYA Day Skipper cert
  To proceed I need to pass the sailing modules
  Will also need to pass a 5 day practical course/exam for the RYA, nearest test center is Langkawi
  Optional extra - holding this cert means I can hire a yacht on holiday, in almost any country

So no, I cannot take the boat out and practice, until I'm already more of an expert on the jargon stuff and controls our boats don't even have, then you lot are

One potential option is to find some other form of international boating license, for a motorboat, and just ignore all other sailing stuff and just learn my own Mac. I'm sure the local boaty police won't care what license I have, as long as I have one so they don't have to do paperwork etc.

One possible option for that seems this website:

https://www.boat-ed.com

"You do not have to be a resident of Florida to take this online course"

But need to find one that looks like an actual license, cos many have a 'I took a day's safety course and got a certificate!' vibe...



Be Free - that does help, thanks (presuming you're correct ) What I'm still not sure about:

So if the wind is faster up high than lower on the sail, I need more twist, or less twist?
If port is fluttering on a port tack, more twist or less?
If starboard is fluttering on a port tack, more twist or less?
I keep reading things like "move the sail towards the fluttering woolie" but what does "towards" mean? Say port is fluttering, do I move the end of the boom of the mainsail, or leech of the jib, towards the port side of the boat, or would that be considered pointing (moving) the sail to starboard?

I totally agree that if the authorities would leave me the heck alone, I could just take the boat out for a couple of afternoons at sea and then figure all this out for myself!

Trust me, as a deep-conviction libertarian who left the cloying nanny-state of the UK for the wild freedom of Borneo, I don't need convincing on that point. Sadly the sands have shifted under my feet, and the local hat-wearers are now demanding to see people's 'boat license'.

Another big and important issue, is that if licensed I can keep my boat at the local marina. I didn't even know we had one, and apparently it's only 5 years old, but it's absolutely ideally located, in deep water. I can just leave my Mac with ballast and the mast up, and walk along a nice tidy gangway and step on. That's never been the case before, always had to tow the thing for half an hour and then slither and slide my truck down stupidly steep and nasty ramps.

(As a side note, I'd bring her home to my garden again during the rainy season, so I'd get the best of both worlds)

Hope that clarifies my dilemma

[Drifter]

Mmm, just wrote to them and asked which states have a card or cert that says "license", but just spotted this on the site:

"Is the Boating Card the same as a Boating License?
A state’s Boater Education Card is proof that you have successfully completed an approved boating safety course. Since the boater education card does not expire and does not need to be renewed, it is not called a Boating License."

Mmm.

[Be Free]

I'm really sorry that you are having to jump through hoops to be able to take your boat out. Fortunately I was old enough to be "grandfathered in" when Florida started requiring certification to use a boat. Several of my kids have taken that boat-ed.com course to fulfill the requirements here. I doubt if it would suffice for you but it is easy and does not take long to complete.

In a strong wind you will have everything tight. You have wind to waste. Keeping the twist out of the sail by keeping it tight will depower the sail and make it less efficient. In a light or moderate wind you will be trying to use all the wind you can. That's when you ease the vang and let the top twist a little bit away from the wind. Too much twist will also depower your sail if you have too much wind. Your vang is a "fine" adjustment tool. It's not going to move much unless you are purposely allowing excess twist to depower the sail.

So, in answer to your question about the faster wind up high on your sail: If the wind is light to moderate you probably want to use all of that wind so you will ease the vang slightly and allow the sail to twist. If the wind is causing you to heel too much you will either remove the twist or add excess twist in order to "waste" the high, fast wind that is pushing on the end of that long, tall lever we call a mast.

I'm going to avoid your telltale question because I'm unsure if you are asking about jib or mainsail telltales. In general though, you want your jib telltales to be pointing straight back on both sides of the jib. Mainsail telltales should be pointing straight back from the top to the bottom of the sail.

[NiceAft]

Drifter,

Thanks for the gut wrenching honesty of your catch twenty-two situation.

If I understand this correctly

Going for the UK's RYA Day Skipper cert
To proceed I need to pass the sailing modules
Will also need to pass a 5 day practical course/exam for the RYA, nearest test center is Langkawi

, successfully completing all of this means your problems are over.

If your finances allow, going somewhere outside of Borneo for a few days to get hands on sailing experience will go a lot farther in increasing your understanding of what will be asked on any test.

I’m again going out on a limb here, if there are any Mac owners wherever that place may be, I’d be surprised if you wouldn’t be helped.

You can be successful with the path you have been pursuing, but, if you can, adding hands on sailing is more efficient.

[svscott]

Dang, this was a heavy read for 730am on Sunday morning!

A couple things I'd like to chime in on.

First, the Fairlead vs pulley for your head sail: a fairlead is just a rounded ring, usually mounted to the deck that is sometimes just plastic but the nicer ones will have a stainless steel insert to resist wear from friction over time. A jib car or genoa car with stand up pulley are used on our macgregors. If you have a jib, use the track on the cabin top. If you have a genoa, use the track mounted on the gunwales (your backrest on the cockpit benches). The rule of thumb is in light wind, move your cars forward and let the sheets looser (both to increase twist) and in heavy wind, slide the jib cars back and pull the sheets tight to flatten the sail.

When adjusting the sails to your telltales, if the leeward side are slack, loosen the sheets to get air flowing smoothly on the backside of your sail. If the windward side are sagging, pull the sheets tighter to get the air flow better on the face of the sails. A flapping leech usually goes along with sagging windward telltales.

Our 26X doesn't have a traveler (and that really sucks because it would benefit from it!) But I do use different attachment points for the lower side of the mainsheet when I'm running deep downwind. The location on the lifeline rails where the cockpit lifeline attaches at the front of the cockpit is strong enough (in my experience) to handle the load. Attaching the mainsheet here while running downwind speed you to pull the boom down, minimizing twist in the mainsail. In an attempt to clarify, when the sail is opened up all the way until it is just touching the spreaders and the mainsheet is attached in the center of the cockpit, you have to let out a bunch of line to get the boom out... BUT having all this line out allows the boom to lift, thus depowering the lower portion of your sail. This same concept is what a traveler allows you but with more adjustability on how far off center of the boat you're pulling down on the boom. My 26D had a very nice traveler that I use every time I sail it. Inversely, when I'm sailing hard upwind. I'll pull the traveler up to the windward side to allow the boat to point higher. BUT, this adds more heel angle to the boat that may slow you down.

Regarding your boom vang, unless you're racing, it's mostly not needed. The boom vang attaches to your mast about 2' back from the mast and connects to the mast at the base plate. The vang will pull the boom down and fight the lift of the wind trying to pick up the sail.

Someone mentioned a Cunningham - I've never used one but it's just a line that attaches from the bottom of your mainsail and connects to the car of the mast and its intended purpose is to act like a second halyard on your mainsail but it pulls DOWN and helps tighten your luff.

Long story short, sailing is super complicated to explain... but it's pretty damn easy to actually sail. I think I understand it pretty well but am completely self taught so nobody's ever been there to tell me when I'm wrong.

Do yourself a favor and on a light wind day, raise your mast while parked in your garden and put the sails up. Keep the sheets loose when you raise the sails though so they don't power up and tip your boat. Even in your garden, you can play with sail trim enough to see how they work.

Come vacation in Northwestern Pennsylvania next June or July and I'll show you the ropes! You could even experience how much of a pig the 26X is to sail compared to a well equipped 26D, .

[Stickinthemud57]

Someone mentioned a Cunningham - I've never used one but it's just a line that attaches from the bottom of your mainsail and connects to the car of the mast and its intended purpose is to act like a second halyard on your mainsail but it pulls DOWN and helps tighten your luff.

My sailing coach told me I need to use a Cunningham. When using one, you keep the main halyard a little slack so that the sail is fuller near the tack, pushing the draft point of the sail to aft and adding power. When the wind picks up it is tightened to optimize sail shape. I have halyards led aft, and find it is easier (and safer) to simply tighten or loosen the main halyard to achieve the same purpose. When mentioning this to my coach he offered no argument to my rationale.

[Be Free]

I'm the one who mentioned the cunningham. I did it in the context of a sail tuning device that a beginner does not need to worry about and that a Macgregor X or M will likely never see a measurable benefit from.

[Drifter]

Long, tiring day and I'm half asleep, but just want to say a bit thanks to SVScott!

Got my study materials in the post...




3 thick books, a bunch of charts and some tools

I just wanna go fishing and sail my Mac lol...

[Drifter]

98%

I didn't know the fine for drunk boating in Oregon ($6250 apparently) or would have been 100%




So if the local boaty police will accept an American state of Oregon motor boat license, I'm covered

Looong way to go on the RYA thingy though...

[Russ]

Some state certifications seem a bit easy. Our state online course is mostly about basic safety stuffs. Not a peep about sailing.
Safety is the most important thing local officials are concerned with. Which is why I assume they want you to know the fines for intoxication.

With a sexy keyboard like yours, you should be able to get through the course.
As I said, for me, the hardest part of these things is learning the terms and trying to wrap my head around 3d concepts.
Lots of youtubes out there to help.