Outboard help

[Starscream]

Yes, optional to connect to ignition switch, but not optional to give the ACR a negative connection for it to function. Like Jimmy says, the wiring diagram shows the ground connection. You must have at least three wires connected for the acr to function but I only see two.

The switch to turn off the ACR during storage isn't necessary except for extreme long term. I didn't put it in, and 7 months of winter storage did not drain the battery very much at all.

The ignition switch isolates the two batteries instantaneously when the key is turned, but even this is nice-to-have and not totally necessary.

Without the third wire from the ACR to ground, at least one of your batteries isn't receiving a charge, ever. That, by itself, could be the problem.

[macowneril2015]

Yes, optional to connect to ignition switch, but not optional to give the ACR a negative connection for it to function. Like Jimmy says, the wiring diagram shows the ground connection. You must have at least three wires connected for the acr to function but I only see two.

The switch to turn off the ACR during storage isn't necessary except for extreme long term. I didn't put it in, and 7 months of winter storage did not drain the battery very much at all.

The ignition switch isolates the two batteries instantaneously when the key is turned, but even this is nice-to-have and not totally necessary.

Without the third wire from the ACR to ground, at least one of your batteries isn't receiving a charge, ever. That, by itself, could be the problem.

Okay, I will try that this weekend. I had the battery charger hooked up directly to the batteries so it only came into being an issue when the engine ran but I guess it could have just been the fault in the system then.

Reviewing the diagram I now realize that I messed it up so thank you for someone catching it. Could this have harmed any of the other components?

[Jimmyt]

Shouldn't have harmed anything, other than allowing your house battery to go dead over time as Starscream indicated. Since you were keeping them charged with shore power, likely no harm done. It didn't kill your perko, if that's what you're asking.

[Starscream]

Don't forget the 90Amp fuses in the positive lines of the ACR, and the 1 amp fuse in the negative.



This is my wiring diagram, although I haven't yet added the ACR ignition tie-in, nor the on/off switch for the ACR. And I used a 100amp breaker, not 90A. Maybe I should update the diagram. And I think I put my panels in parallel, not series, but I have to check to be sure .

[Perko]

Hi macowneril2015,

I am a representative of Perko and this forum thread was brought to our attention. Sorry to read that you are having electrical system problems. While anything is possible, the failure of a properly installed battery switch is quite rare.

Assuming they are wired properly, often a battery switch failure is the result of mounting the switch on an uneven surface and excessively tightening the mounting fasteners. This can put disproportionate loads on the housing and distort internal components. So, it is always good to make certain that battery switches are mounted on flat surfaces.

Regardless, if you want to send the switch back to us for evaluation, we will be happy to run a load test on it and tell you what we learn.

Perko Inc.
16490 NW 13th Ave.
Miami, Florida 33169
305-621-7525
sales@perko.com

[Inquisitor]

Hi macowneril2015,

I am a representative of Perko and this forum thread was brought to our attention...

Regardless, if you want to send the switch back to us for evaluation, we will be happy to run a load test on it and tell you what we learn.

Perko Inc.

I have to agree as simple as the device is. Mine... I'm sure running it over with a truck wouldn't faze it. I'm more concerned about being able to switch it when I get old. It takes some grip and torque. They are damn stout.

But, that is surprising that you piped in. Great customer service is hard to find anymore!

[Starscream]

Hi macowneril2015,

I am a representative of Perko and this forum thread was brought to our attention. Sorry to read that you are having electrical system problems. While anything is possible, the failure of a properly installed battery switch is quite rare.

Assuming they are wired properly, often a battery switch failure is the result of mounting the switch on an uneven surface and excessively tightening the mounting fasteners. This can put disproportionate loads on the housing and distort internal components. So, it is always good to make certain that battery switches are mounted on flat surfaces.

Regardless, if you want to send the switch back to us for evaluation, we will be happy to run a load test on it and tell you what we learn.

Perko Inc.
16490 NW 13th Ave.
Miami, Florida 33169
305-621-7525
sales@perko.com

Wow. This effort from Perko is sooo impressive.

Tbh, I would be very surprised if the battery switch turned out to be the problem. I agree with the Inquisitor, those Perko switches are tough. There are some cheap imported knockoffs available, but you get what you pay for and I wouldn't touch 'em.

[macowneril2015]

Have not been able to test due to other conflicts coming up, planning to try it this weekend or next and see it the additional wire corrects the issue.

[Jimmyt]

Have not been able to test due to other conflicts coming up, planning to try it this weekend or next and see it the additional wire corrects the issue.

If you mean the missing wire on the ACR, it has nothing to do with your starter/tilt issue.

You have isolated the problem to the perko switch, or the wiring/terminals feeding the switch from the batteries. When you put the motor wiring straight to the batteries, you reported the starter/tilt problems were cured.

So, put the wire on the ACR because it's needed to make the ACR work properly. But, get back to the perko and battery wiring if you want to eliminate your starting/tilt problem.

I would replace one of the battery-to-perko wires with a new one. Then, you'll know if you need to send the perko in for testing. That's incredible customer service from perko to make that offer! If you swap the battery to perko wire and it doesn't fix it, I'd send the switch off for testing. I wouldn't normally suspect the perko, but it's among the last possible causes. You've either got a burned wire, a corroded terminal, a loose terminal, or bad contact in the perko as your remaining possible causes. You know the motor wiring is good and the battery is good. Just check what's left between the motor wire and the battery.

You are so close.

[macowneril2015]

Have not been able to test due to other conflicts coming up, planning to try it this weekend or next and see it the additional wire corrects the issue.

If you mean the missing wire on the ACR, it has nothing to do with your starter/tilt issue.

You have isolated the problem to the perko switch, or the wiring/terminals feeding the switch from the batteries. When you put the motor wiring straight to the batteries, you reported the starter/tilt problems were cured.

So, put the wire on the ACR because it's needed to make the ACR work properly. But, get back to the perko and battery wiring if you want to eliminate your starting/tilt problem.

I would replace one of the battery-to-perko wires with a new one. Then, you'll know if you need to send the perko in for testing. That's incredible customer service from perko to make that offer! If you swap the battery to perko wire and it doesn't fix it, I'd send the switch off for testing. I wouldn't normally suspect the perko, but it's among the last possible causes. You've either got a burned wire, a corroded terminal, a loose terminal, or bad contact in the perko as your remaining possible causes. You know the motor wiring is good and the battery is good. Just check what's left between the motor wire and the battery.

You are so close.

Thank you for that clarification, I misunderstood what I needed to do.

[Jimmyt]

Thank you for that clarification, I misunderstood what I needed to do.

You are doing a great job! Hang in there.

[macowneril2015]

So I got the boat out and ready for the season engine seemed to tilt fine and I was able to get it to fire up briefly before it failed so I guess I am returning to the drawing board. I have the battery connected directly to the engine cable runs.

UPDATE: It was the outboard engine extension cables. The connection was bad and I will need to replace the connection I need to thank everyone here you all are lifesavers and if ever in Chicago a few drinks are on me.

[macowneril2015]

So I got the boat out and ready for the season engine seemed to tilt fine and I was able to get it to fire up briefly before it failed so I guess I am returning to the drawing board. I have the battery connected directly to the engine cable runs.

UPDATE: It was the outboard engine extension cables. The connection was bad and I will need to replace the connection I need to thank everyone here you all are lifesavers and if ever in Chicago a few drinks are on me.

Well I posted too soon it appears my runs are too long for 4 awg wire how large do I need to go to run from transom to front of booth seating say 18 ft. I measured voltage drop at wire junction when key turned and at tilt was pushed and voltage loss at both was substantial. I want to do this right and I know others were concerned this may have been an issue and it appears it is the culprit. I was thinking of ordering 1 awg wire to connect to the 4 awg cables that attach to the battery.

[Jimmyt]

https://www.bluesea.com/support/article ... DC_Circuit

There is a link to their circuit wizard app further down the page. The wire sizing table is about halfway down.

Starter might be 120-200 amp range (unless you actually measure it). Get the length of your run and use the critical load column in the table. Note that if it's 18 ft distance, that's a 36 ft wire run. If you're close to a limit, go to the next size. 4awg is too small (as you discovered). Measuring over 100amp DC current might not be something you are equipped to do (I can't do it). If you had an accurate measurement of the voltage drop while cranking in a known length of your cable, you could calculate the approximate current, to get in the ballpark (this is probably what I would try). Use your 4ga cable, measure the voltage drop from one end to the other while cranking, then measure the actual length.

Maybe someone has the cranking battery in that location and can weigh in on what wire size they used for a gut check. Or, maybe someone has actually measured cranking current. There is a rule of thumb floating around the internet that states 1 cranking amp per cubic inch of displacement. That would put you at a tad over 60 amps for 50 hp, 1 liter outboard. I have no reason to believe this is accurate, and only present it to promote additional discussion. It doesn't seem to be supported by your indication of excessive voltage drop (about 5.6%) or 11.3 volts at the starter. At 120 amps, the drop is 11%, or 10.6 volts at the starter (based on 12 volts at the battery, so adjust accordingly for actual).

I would use at least 120amps if you can't find a better number. It's likely on the safe side. Based on that, 4/O awg if you're running 36 feet will get you under 3% loss. You might be able to go a tad smaller, but I wouldn't do it unless you can firm up the cranking amps.

I would move the cranking battery closer to the outboard. You're looking at an expensive wire run for cranking duty. If you keep the long run, go big on the wire so you only have to buy it once.

https://www.batterycablesusa.com/battery-cables

For estimating costs of different wire sizes...

Good luck.

[macowneril2015]

https://www.bluesea.com/support/article ... DC_Circuit

There is a link to their circuit wizard app further down the page. The wire sizing table is about halfway down.

Starter might be 120-200 amp range (unless you actually measure it). Get the length of your run and use the critical load column in the table. Note that if it's 18 ft distance, that's a 36 ft wire run. If you're close to a limit, go to the next size. 4awg is too small (as you discovered). Measuring over 100amp DC current might not be something you are equipped to do (I can't do it). If you had an accurate measurement of the voltage drop while cranking in a known length of your cable, you could calculate the approximate current, to get in the ballpark (this is probably what I would try). Use your 4ga cable, measure the voltage drop from one end to the other while cranking, then measure the actual length.

Maybe someone has the cranking battery in that location and can weigh in on what wire size they used for a gut check. Or, maybe someone has actually measured cranking current. There is a rule of thumb floating around the internet that states 1 cranking amp per cubic inch of displacement. That would put you at a tad over 60 amps for 50 hp, 1 liter outboard. I have no reason to believe this is accurate, and only present it to promote additional discussion.

I would use at least 120amps if you can't find a better number. It's likely on the safe side.

I would move the cranking battery closer to the outboard. You're looking at an expensive wire run for cranking duty. If you keep the long run, go big on the wire so you only have to buy it once.

https://www.batterycablesusa.com/battery-cables

For estimating costs of different wire sizes...

Good luck.

Thank you for this, it is extremely helpful so my service manual states that "CD unit output (Cranking)" is 198 -220 DVA and "Exciter coil output (cranking)" is 135 - 150 DVA does this mean I need to be able to handle that or is that something to disregard. Also is it weird that I changed the electrical system 2 years ago and only started having issues last year?