Hobie 33 vs mac 26x

[BOAT]

there are really no trailer boats that I myself would put in the TransPac class. I think your always limited to a coastal cruiser if it's a trailer boat. Your passages will always be restricted within the 500 mile limit. You might be asking too much of a trailer boat.

Your only real choices are the hobie or the edge or boats like that - I think the edge would be more comfortable but the hobie more seaworthy. It's a hard choice. Neither boat has a very good record for durability over the long haul like the MacGregor boats do - the MAC's have been outlasting every thing in the fleet when it comes to trailer boats. Venture boats from the 70's and 80's are still as common on the water as seaweed, yet the populations of hunters seems to be dwindling faster than the dinosaurs. I don't really know why, I suspect it's the "molded grid system" Hunter uses in their boats - it's very heavy and falls apart fast. It's a water ballast boat too, very very strange for a company like Hunter. They are not famous for their 'water ballast' boats and all indications are it's just a bad copy of the MAC ballast system. I would take the Hobie over the Hunter 2 to 1 myself.

I always thought the Edge was a strange boat to come out of the Luhrs dynasty. It's clear to me that Warren Luhrs copied the MAC when he decided to produce the Edge - it's not a boat that comes from a family of fine boat builders. I'm sure his late dad Henry Luhrs would NOT have approved the "edge", but the company was in such financial stress towards the end I think they would have built volkswagons if they thought it could make money.

Anyways, Warren was a good man, and a great sailor, but compared to his dad, an okay boat designer. The fact that the long and famous Luhrs family dynasty of boat building came to an end under Warren must have worn on him. When he died everyone was sad about it. People admired Warren as a great sailor and a good man and I think he was such.

It's a common story in the boat building business, the great boat builders try to pass on their legacy's to their kids but that's usually where it all flounders. In my opinion when it comes to boat design it's not about education or family history or even experience - I think it's something your born with - you either got it or you don't. Henry Luhrs definitely was born with the talent and created some of the best power boats in the world.

[Tomfoolery]

Maybe a Nor'Sea 27. 8 ft beam so quite trailerable, but heavy compared to a Mac. At 8100 lb plus 'stuff' plus trailer, it needs more than an SUV to tow it.

[BOAT]

Maybe a Nor'Sea 27. 8 ft beam so quite trailerable, but heavy compared to a Mac. At 8100 lb plus 'stuff' plus trailer, it needs more than an SUV to tow it.

Any boat designed by Lyle Hess is going to be capable of deep oceans passages over 1000's of miles. His trademark wide hull double end-er's are made to take anything the sea can throw at it. I am not familiar with the NorSea 27 but if it's designed by Lyle Hess it's going to be THE most seaworthy choice anyone will ever have on a trailer (if it truly is a trailer boat - hard to belive). I was not aware he designed a boat that could go on a trailer.

[whgoffrn]

I do use a diesel F350 to tow although I don't think a norsea27 would fit trailerable more of a transportable ....so don't think a hobie 33 is a considerable enough jump in "seaworthyness"?

[BOAT]

I do use a diesel F350 to tow although I don't think a norsea27 would fit trailerable more of a transportable ....so don't think a hobie 33 is a considerable enough jump in "seaworthyness"?

A Hobie 33 is a jump above a MacX in seaworthiness. It is NOT a jump above any Lyle Hess boat, (no disrespect to Hobie Alter but his design is a splash off of a racing hull and was not shaped for the kinds of seas a Lyle Hess boat can endure).

A Hunter Edge trailer boat with water ballast is NOT a step up in seaworthyness from a MACM boat, the Edge is about equal to the X boat in endurance, but as noted - the Edge cost three times what a M boat costs and does not have much more interior room than a X boat.



The really weak link in the EDGE is that rudder set up with the rudder well built into the cockpit - I have owned trailer boats with rudder wells and there is a reason why the Lyle Hess boats and other boats designed for ocean passage do not have rudder wells - when they bend your screwed - you can't raise a bent rudder in a well - and a bent rudder is the most common storm damage on a sailboat - just follow the Vendee Globe to see that. Almost all the Vendee Globe boats hang dual rudders over the transom - it's for safety.

Number one cause of loss of life on trailer-able sailboats according to the insurance table accuarials is 1. electric shock from the mast touching power lines and 2. loos of rudder control.

Just the facts.

[Ixneigh]

Forget the NS27 if you want to ramp launch. Its a keel boat. Maybe on a perfect ramp. It wont be like the mac. It does have a circumnavigation to its credit.

If you slow the hobi down to mac speeds is it still wet?
Ix

[Highlander]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_fu44SFNVE

Another issue u may have to live with is weather u could end up having to leave the boat behind & fly home if u run outa time !
in a hobbie33 or rough weather is going to b hard work & wet in a nor,sea27 u,ll most likely be a little more comfortable & more stable
depending on how well u & ur crew r trained trying to beat or outrun a bad weather pattern on a tight time schedule could b cause for concern especially with a young family
at least if u r in the middle of a 100 mile crossing & u see things starting to change for the worse u can turn on that iron genny & keep the ballast tank full & either head back or make a run for it, not a choice u,ll have with a keel boat

Just sayin thats all !

J

[whgoffrn]

True ... after the last few days of searching I'm not even sure switching boats is the best decision ..the mac does have some things in its "pros" list that can't be had on a hobie 33...50hp engine ...won't sink (supposedly) .... after prico mv hobie and seeing I'd be spending roughly 10k more ....I can't help but wonder if my money might be spent better on new standing and running rigging.... epirb ...a sea anchor and a small drogue... the hobie I guess is more seaworthy but if swamped will sink it's a retractable keel which can be grounded and break ..... really just a hard decision which would be the better trailer sailor for short bursts over to the exumas....

As far as my vacation goes ...I accumulate 4 weeks of vacation per year and would allot 3 weeks to spend however I'm allowed to carry over 12 weeks so what I'm going to start doing is put in for 6 weeks of vacation wait for weather reports to show a good window before I actually take off work ...we can put in for vacation but not take it and it's not counted against us... so I'd put in for 6 weeks off ... but if weather was not ok for a crossing work a few more days until I could see the front was passing then drive down to leave and just go as far as I can within a 2 weeks time from before turning around.... that's where I'd be more under pressure to chance the weather ... I wouldn't have to come back but I can see where I might take a little more risk on chancing 2-3ft (which really means 4-6ft) crossing to get back ....ultimately yeah I wouldn't be a total idiot about crossing back over in 10-12s but I can see how I MIGHT have a little more pressure on the return and hence looking at what my options are

[vizwhiz]

Have you checked out a Telstar 28? It's a trimaran with folding aumas that is trailerable.
If i had to pick a replacement for my Mac, I can say I'm very enamored with that boat and would probably try one on for size. It has good reviews overall. Just a thought...

[Ixneigh]

Even people in big boats motor across the banks.
Find put how any boat sails with its keel set at three feet. Thats a good number for sailing on the banks. There may be a coral head shallower but I never saw one. Id sail at night or in poor vis from gun/cat/bimini with 3 feet.
If you sail you'll be out there over night. Its 80 miles to chub cay mostly up wind. Even if you get lucky and ride a front over its still 80 miles. Long daysail and into evening
Hours. That either puts you leaving gun cay at like three am or getting into chub after dusk. You'll want rudders that are forgiving or well protected if you plan on shallow water operation. Plan on crossing the stream in daylight hours. Period. Its a busy shipping lane. Last time I did it at night I swore id never do it again. I like to wait till its nice and motor. Im familiar with gun cay so getting there in poor vis is ok for me. One of the guys on here took a 26s over with little issue but certainly a 33 is going to be a better sailing boat all other things being equal. So if your really wanting an excuse buy the boat on that reason go for it!
Ix

[Tomfoolery]

Maybe a Nor'Sea 27. 8 ft beam so quite trailerable, but heavy compared to a Mac. At 8100 lb plus 'stuff' plus trailer, it needs more than an SUV to tow it.

Any boat designed by Lyle Hess is going to be capable of deep oceans passages over 1000's of miles. His trademark wide hull double end-er's are made to take anything the sea can throw at it. I am not familiar with the NorSea 27 but if it's designed by Lyle Hess it's going to be THE most seaworthy choice anyone will ever have on a trailer (if it truly is a trailer boat - hard to belive). I was not aware he designed a boat that could go on a trailer.

That depends on what you consider a "trailer boat". It's far from the 3000 lb of my , but it's legal width, and can be ramp launched, though it's not float on/off and needs a roller trailer and winch (like a lot of power boats). But like a lot of larger keel boats (Catalina 27, for instance), it's trailerable with a heavy pickup, but unlike the Catalina, it can be ramp launched at a good ramp. And I would consider it a blue water boat, not just a coastal cruiser. If you have the stomach for that sort of sailing in such a small boat. Which I don't.

Launch starts at about the 3 minute mark.

https://youtu.be/5_fu44SFNVE?t=3m1s

[Sumner]

Sorry I didn't realize when I made the last post that you wanted to stay with a trailerable boat. I love what I see in the NS27 and have seen a video of one ramp launching (one posted above) but it would be way easier to have it put in and that might not be that expensive. In the yard here it is $150 to be put in and out once and a lot easier than the ramp....





... 2 years ago when I did the Bahama trip I hadn't used my free launches here so they put me in for nothing. Also the yard here is $7.00 a foot and 2 free in and outs a year. You can sleep and work on the boat in the yard also. A decent NS27 isn't a cheap boat though.

For what you want to do the Mac as mentioned above does have advantages. One is that if you are welling to pay for some fuel you can avoid night crossings like most have to do.

A typical trip with a keel boat to the northern most cays in the Exuma Chain would look like this and would be about as fast as you could make it, weather permitting.

Day 1 .... Position yourself by one of the cuts east/SE of Miami.
Day 2 .... Get up around 2-3 am and make the crossing to Bimini, getting in there late afternoon and check-in.
Day 3 .... Leave early morning for the Berry's and cross the banks that day and night.
Day 4 .... After motoring all night get into the Berry's in the morning light when you can see. I didn't go into Chub Cay as it is expensive now unless maybe you are also getting fuel, so went on to Whale Cay. If you read my trip report you can see that Whale isn't the best place to be. Rest up that day after the all nighter.
Day 5 .... Motor to Nassau or in my case since I didn't want to go in there and pay for a marina, anchor to the east of there at Rose Island.
Day 6 .... Motor or now maybe sail if the winds are right down to the northern cays of the Exuma chain.

So almost a week to get to the northern Exumas and you will be tired. You will find that with the prevailing winds that you will be motoring probably until at least Nassau unless you are real lucky. It took me 11 days to make it from Florida to the Exumas and I traveled when I could but had one major front to contend with.

The same trip with your Mac if you are willing to pay for some fuel to run a little faster than a keel boat and that includes the Hobbie.

Day 1 .... Put in and make it to Bimini late in the day but before dark. You will be going in longer days and you might have to motor a little fast for part of the trip. Check-in and get a full nights sleep.
Day 2 .... Motor to the Berries getting in before dark. You don't want to go in anywhere over there in the dark unless you are very familiar with the place.
Day 3 .... Motor to Rose Island or possible all the way to the northern cays in the Exumas.

So 3 days and sleeping every night with the negative being spending money on fuel.

I crossed the stream both ways during the night and there is traffic out there and I was very grateful for having bought a new radio that had AIS, so I could see it, and talk, in one case to a ship and divert course. A very good investment for the boat if you don't have it. You will also be able to see a lot of the commercial and private boats in the Bahamas with it and know their name, size and position which is handy if you want to hail one,

For what you are trying to do with the time frame you have I think the Mac might still be the best boat. A NS27 would let you move on days you couldn't with the Mac but you would also be slower and doing night sails, which are very tiring if you don't have someone to relieve you. Not sure if your kids are old enough or not at this point. Also in the summer it is going to be squalls you are mainly going to have to contend with, unless there is a tropical storm or hurricane. In a keel boat there isn't much you can do if a squall is bearing down on you, not fun, but with the Mac X/M you have a better chance of moving out of its way,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[grady]

Maybe a Nor'Sea 27. 8 ft beam so quite trailerable, but heavy compared to a Mac. At 8100 lb plus 'stuff' plus trailer, it needs more than an SUV to tow it.

Any boat designed by Lyle Hess is going to be capable of deep oceans passages over 1000's of miles. His trademark wide hull double end-er's are made to take anything the sea can throw at it. I am not familiar with the NorSea 27 but if it's designed by Lyle Hess it's going to be THE most seaworthy choice anyone will ever have on a trailer (if it truly is a trailer boat - hard to belive). I was not aware he designed a boat that could go on a trailer.

That depends on what you consider a "trailer boat". It's far from the 3000 lb of my , but it's legal width, and can be ramp launched, though it's not float on/off and needs a roller trailer and winch (like a lot of power boats). But like a lot of larger keel boats (Catalina 27, for instance), it's trailerable with a heavy pickup, but unlike the Catalina, it can be ramp launched at a good ramp. And I would consider it a blue water boat, not just a coastal cruiser. If you have the stomach for that sort of sailing in such a small boat. Which I don't.

Launch starts at about the 3 minute mark.

https://youtu.be/5_fu44SFNVE?t=3m1s

If you got the lifting keel version "float on float off" would be easy.

I have floated on and off J24s and have seen larger boats floated on and off. I would not do it for a weekend but once a year is doable. Last J24 I pulled out was 2 people 5 hours. Motor it over to the crane, Pull mast and and secure, motor it over to ramp, Tie 30ft line to trailer and let it down ramp, motor J24 onto trailer then pull trailer out of water, chock remove line and reattach to truck. Bam you are on your way.

[BOAT]

Based on what Sumner said it sounds like a motor boat like a MAC would be better for that area. And Ixnegh is in the Keys - and what he said sounded pretty scary about that coral stuff - that would really scare me at night - Based on what Ixneigh said I definitely would not trust the Hunter Edge in those waters - it just does not have the right rudder for those conditions.

[whgoffrn]

True and after pondering on it at length over the last week I think the mac x probably still is going to be the best boat for me .... I suppose I will invest my money into trying to make it more seaworthy or adding things like all new stays sea anchor drogue epirb. I think I've read adding all weight in the very bottom adds additional stability/ballast so may try putting 4 batteries in the bottom add water tanks and other things of purpose rather than glassing in lead bricks