New Mac / Tattoo 23Ft concept boat

[sailboatmike]

Fareast Yachts seem to make a good product that has had great reviews from the sailing community, their boats are more orientated towards the race end of the market but no reason they cant produce a good quality cruiser

http://www.fareastyachts.com/

[Bluenote]

Sad to say the trailer sailor market may be in fact dead. Tattoo in one way or another outright inherited the trailer sailor market. There was significant brand and market awareness world wide. Tattoo even improved the product and yet no order volume. After Tattoo ceased to manufacture dealers still had inventory for some time. Irrespective of any financial obligations it is apparent there was not enough market to make a go of continuing. Regardless of why Tattoo chose to exit no other manufacturer has managed to stepped in. Builders like Catalina & Hunter certainly have the the productive capacity and technical skill to fill the void.

I don't recall anyone leaving for a smaller boat. If I recall most left due to age, illness, lack of use and a some moved up to a larger boat. There are 217 classified add on this site. Approx. 180 are boats for sail including a few new dealer boats. I spent 3 yrs looking for a Mac. Between 2003-2006 I don't recall there were more than 40-60 boats for sale on this site at any given time. Koenig's boat has been listed for longer than I can remember.

Maybe I'm missing something but with an absence of manufacturers and models coupled with a large used inventory it seems apparent this market segment is dead. It doesn't look like I will be moving up anytime soon. Perhaps just as well.

I left for a smaller boat. Owned a used 2003M for 5 years until 2011. We down sized to a 23' water ballast swing keel Santana 2023C. Our main reason was that we live at the lake and generally only day sail. The difference in cleaning the hull, raising the mast, launching and retrieving was significant.Our boat has a tiller and is not a power sailor, but it has a shallow draft, and sails well. I would bet there is a market for a 22' trailer sailor. Not too many 2023C's on the market...

[Signaleer]

Sad to say the trailer sailor market may be in fact dead. Tattoo in one way or another outright inherited the trailer sailor market. There was significant brand and market awareness world wide. Tattoo even improved the product and yet no order volume.

Is this real? I mean, I BWY had one straggler or two? That boat cost 50K plus? I had heard that Tatoo feel down on production - boats were late, no inventory for dealers, then the whole 'factory move' thing. I was told her (the daughter's?) heart just wasn't in it. So, I don't know, I've talk to others and they have a different story, I wonder what is really true.

After Tattoo ceased to manufacture dealers still had inventory for some time. Irrespective of any financial obligations it is apparent there was not enough market to make a go of continuing. Regardless of why Tattoo chose to exit no other manufacturer has managed to stepped in. Builders like Catalina & Hunter certainly have the the productive capacity and technical skill to fill the void.

Well, Hunter tried at least. But they never broke through with the Hunter Edge. But again, wasn't it more expensive?

I don't recall anyone leaving for a smaller boat. If I recall most left due to age, illness, lack of use and a some moved up to a larger boat. There are 217 classified add on this site. Approx. 180 are boats for sail including a few new dealer boats. I spent 3 yrs looking for a Mac. Between 2003-2006 I don't recall there were more than 40-60 boats for sale on this site at any given time. Koenig's boat has been listed for longer than I can remember.

Are these ads ever policed? I looked through a few based on your observation and most to me appeared to be old. Is this inventory representative of the overall market?

Maybe I'm missing something but with an absence of manufacturers and models coupled with a large used inventory it seems apparent this market segment is dead. It doesn't look like I will be moving up anytime soon. Perhaps just as well.

Well, maybe I'm just dreaming.... I mean, I thought the libertarian party was going to blow up too.

I think there is a market for this boat, it has to match price for available recreation income and be competitive for that. Today's competition includes wakeboard boats, power boats, and is a more performance oriented world. Mac's were great, hull are great! I love mine, but they could BE BETTER ... aka More Competitive. There are many design components that should be considered for when we start out company...

[kurz]

When I talked to a big dealer that often visited MacGregors he said the the relation to his children (just looking at business) was not too good. So they started new brand tatoo etc.

I think Tatoo changed to much at same time.

New Brand, new Company, changhing place of production, inventing new boat. Why not going on with just the , then do next step one by one. Even if you sell less a year it should pay your bills. Then if you settled down go on with new models or make new brand names...

[dlandersson]

Ditto

When I talked to a big dealer that often visited MacGregors he said the the relation to his children (just looking at business) was not too good. So they started new brand tatoo etc.

I think Tatoo changed to much at same time.

New Brand, new Company, changhing place of production, inventing new boat. Why not going on with just the , then do next step one by one. Even if you sell less a year it should pay your bills. Then if you settled down go on with new models or make new brand names...

[TheSailingRode]

I talked to the Venture 23 founders at the Annapolis show yesterday. They are very passionate about the idea and building a good boat. The boat designer has several successful small sail and power boats overseas.

I was wrong about them planning to produce them in China. They actually plan to build them in California. They asked about my 26M and what I would change. They are very interested in getting input from trailer sailors.

I talked to them about Tattoo stopping production and if the used market is too much competition. They feel there is enough market to support the business and Ken Lange, one of the founders, has been building and selling trailer sailers for years, so he is not a newbie. They feel Tattoo just lost interest in the business.

They have the Venture 23 priced at $49,500 without engine or trailer. That seems like a big price for a 23ft sailboat. I bought my 2010 26M with Honda 50 (100hrs) used in 2013, for $23K, added a salt water dual axle trailer for $6K, but there always seems to be a market for people that want a new boat and financing. I also think MacGregor could have charged more for the 26M, but not sure he would have sold as many at $50K.

I will attach the brochure pics with all the features and options.





Steve
2010 26M
1985 Mac25
The Sailing Rode Podcast
http://www.TheSailingRode.com

[sailboatmike]

Yes I dont think the market would sustain that pricing, $49k bare boat, plus $5k for a trailer and another $10k for a motor equals a $64k sail away package, certainly not at the budget end of the market and while I dont profess to know the boating market in the USA, I would say very over priced for a 23 foot boat.

The not so big secret of Macgregor success was high volume, so he didnt have to make a killing on each boat, also this allowed him to get good purchasing volume discounts from suppliers.

Everyone knows that if your not going to build in good numbers the per unit price is markedly higher.

Small volume is expensive, fewer people buy expensive if they dont feel they are getting value for money.

Too sell a 23 foot boat for $64k and convince people they are getting good value for money will be difficult, especially when there are many used X's and M's on the market for less than 1/3 of the price

[Signaleer]

Once again, missing the market.

Too high, and not feature rich enough (assuming) from what I saw.

[Catigale]

There is no secret here. You have to price the boat under the threshold of a signature loan capability of an average household which is in the 30-35k range. Beyond. That, no volume and the price snowballs out of reach.

[sailboatmike]

Im thinking at that price point it will increase the values of our X & M's.

I mean you would be mad to pay over $60k for a untested 23 footer when you could have a proven 26 footer for $35k second hand

Im sure there is plenty on here that would be happy to sell theirs for $35k

[Bilgemaster]

This thread led me to swing on by the old Tattoo Yachts website, which appears to have last been updated in February 2015. Just out of curiosity, I sent them a message asking if they ever planned to resume production, and rather quickly received the following response, which may be encouraging to some who yearn for that "new boat smell":

Thank you for your interest in the Tattoo 22. I am sorry for the delay in replying to your email. Our facility has been closed while we look for a new site as we have outgrown our faciilty.

We are delighted to announce that we have found a building which we are in the process of buying, and that we plan to be up and running again soon.

This exciting new power sailer is not yet in production. We are finishing up the final stages of the prototype and will have it on the water as soon as possible. Once we have sailed the boat we will be releasing pricing and complete specifications.

I will keep your contact information on file and contact you as soon as we have the full details on the Tattoo 22.

Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

Best Regards,

Laura MacGregor Sharp

Tattoo Yachts LLC
Tel +1 772 872 6761
info@tattooyachts.com
http://www.tattooyachts.com
http://www.Facebook.com/TattooYachts

[Starscream]

So let's see, for the $60K or so it would cost me to get a newbare-bones 23 ft.trailer-sailer, I could alternatively buy this:

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/61736

and this: http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/61369

and this: http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/61546

and this: http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/61214

so I could have my own fleet and probably still have enough left over to buy a new 90HP for my favorite one.

The selling price is going to kill that project. In 2006 I bought a 2002 26X, then over the years I bought a new trailer and put on a new 90HP all for less than $30K. And it came with bells and whistles like a full enclosure ($3k), jib and genoa on a furler, MRS, Shore power, electronics, etc. etc.

I thought about a new 26M at the time, but once I got through with all the options and a 60HP motor it was pushing $45k and simply impossible to justify against a lightly used X.

I have always doubted that the Tattoo 22 would be a success. Almost everyone wants a bigger boat...more room for guests, more liveable, more storeage (yeah I know that really means more bilge space on our boats) etc. There are a few for whom a 22 or 23 ft boat is fine, but I think the vast majority would prefer 26' or more.

Maybe at that price point the few suckers they get to buy one would give them enough profit to keep them in business. Who knows, but I don't think we'll see any signficant volume from them unless the bare boat is below $30k. Otherwise it's just a different Hunter Edge, only smaller. And the Edge didn't work out so well for Hunter.

[Russ]

and rather quickly received the following response

Thank you for your interest in the Tattoo 22. I am sorry for the delay in replying to your email. Our facility has been closed while we look for a new site as we have outgrown our faciilty.

We are delighted to announce that we have found a building which we are in the process of buying, and that we plan to be up and running again soon.

This exciting new power sailer is not yet in production. We are finishing up the final stages of the prototype and will have it on the water as soon as possible. Once we have sailed the boat we will be releasing pricing and complete specifications.

I will keep your contact information on file and contact you as soon as we have the full details on the Tattoo 22.

Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

Quick response with an apology for delay? Hmm.. sounds like an autoresponder.

They have a boat. We saw photos of the hull. So a mold exists. Would love to hear more about its future.

[dlandersson]

Yeah, my kind of thinking - plus their own slips at the marina.

So let's see, for the $60K or so it would cost me to get a newbare-bones 23 ft.trailer-sailer, I could alternatively buy this:

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/61736

and this: http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/61369

and this: http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/61546

and this: http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/61214

so I could have my own fleet and probably still have enough left over to buy a new 90HP for my favorite one.

The selling price is going to kill that project. In 2006 I bought a 2002 26X, then over the years I bought a new trailer and put on a new 90HP all for less than $30K. And it came with bells and whistles like a full enclosure ($3k), jib and genoa on a furler, MRS, Shore power, electronics, etc. etc.

I thought about a new 26M at the time, but once I got through with all the options and a 60HP motor it was pushing $45k and simply impossible to justify against a lightly used X.

I have always doubted that the Tattoo 22 would be a success. Almost everyone wants a bigger boat...more room for guests, more liveable, more storeage (yeah I know that really means more bilge space on our boats) etc. There are a few for whom a 22 or 23 ft boat is fine, but I think the vast majority would prefer 26' or more.

Maybe at that price point the few suckers they get to buy one would give them enough profit to keep them in business. Who knows, but I don't think we'll see any signficant volume from them unless the bare boat is below $30k. Otherwise it's just a different Hunter Edge, only smaller. And the Edge didn't work out so well for Hunter.

[dlandersson]

Me!! Me!!

Im thinking at that price point it will increase the values of our X & M's.

I mean you would be mad to pay over $60k for a untested 23 footer when you could have a proven 26 footer for $35k second hand

Im sure there is plenty on here that would be happy to sell theirs for $35k