Fueling boat on land (boat on trailer)

[Paul S]

Might as well make some positive progress on the boat and start a new thread.

What is the proper procedure for filling gas tanks on the Mac while on the trailer at a gas station? Going with 2 12 Gallon tanks.

Normally you remove the gas can from the car and put it on the ground and fill. I am not looking forward to lifting 2 12 gallon tanks on and off the boat when refueling on land.

Can you leave them on the boat and fill'er up? Do you need to ground the tanks somehow to reduce static?

Paul

[Don T]

Hello:
Well here goes, I have 2 - 12 gallon tempo tanks. I pull them out a little and touch the nozzle to the tank. I unscrew the fill cap and insert the nozzle pretty far in. I fill at a medium pace keeping the nozzle in contact with the tank. When topping off I slow the fill rate, pull the nozzle even with the bottom of the fill neck and keep contact between the nozzle and tank. I only fill to 11 gallons because of the angle of the lockers will have fuel up against the vent when motoring and I don't want fuel spurting out. I tighten the cap & vent and slide them back in place. Same proceedure for dock side fill up. When I need the extra fuel I will fill to 12 gallons and run the first part of the tank out with the vent closed, just venting it every now and then.

[Paul S]

I don't expect any problems...I have been taught to remove portable containers and fill them on the ground.

I'll probably fill it on the boat. There is no way I can think of to lift filled tanks of gas on the M. Ain't gunna happen.

Paul

[Frank C]

Somebody posted a Coast Guard reg that defines a "portable fuel tank" at a max of 6 gallons, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Any tank larger than that is "supposed" to be a permanently mounted tank with attendant multiple requirements, venting & grounding (somewhere in archives). That much observed, probably half the Macs have 9 or 12 gallon tanks.

An industry trade group, the Petroleum Institute, wrote a report on plastic fuel-container fires. The basic problem is that gasoline molecules induce a static charge during delivery through the pumps, hose and especially while exiting the fueling nozzle. All commercial fueling systems are grounded, but fuel exiting the nozzle into the container builds static and the plastic container insulates it from natural grounding. The report quoted some recommendations for "avoiding plastic tank fueling fires." Sorry, I couldn't find that article any longer (somewhere in the archives).

Don's description sounds perfectly safe, matching the guidelines as I recall them.
1. Fill slowly, because high-speed delivery induces more static charge.
2. Keep the nozzle always in contact with the tank filler neck, and before breaking that contact ...
3. Immerse the nozzle into the liquid fuel before removing it from the container.

The critical problem happens if you permit the nozzle to break contact from the container while in the highly explosive fumes at the fuel's surface, top of tank. A spark at that moment is a killer. These steps are intended to shunt any static charge to the nozzle's grounding system.

[Tom Spohn]

While we are on the subject of fueling, I have a question for the group. Has anybody installed permanent tanks on the Mac in the same location as the portable tanks? Seems like if we were to put in the #12 Tempos, might as well put in the permanent tanks of the (roughly) same dimensions and properly ground them or whatever is required. Anybody have any pros and cons? Experience with this mod?
Thanks,
Tom

[Joe 26M Time Warp]

We spent the first summer using an OEM (Honda) plastic Tempo 6 gallon as the only tank really used, and a little 2.5 gal spare as the backup. I always filled the tank on the ground and stored the tank in the back of my truck when trailering.
The tough part, obviously, is hoisting the tank into the cockpit, but it's no worse and probably easier than a full cooler. Since day one I've been eyeing two metal 6 gallon tanks I just happen to have. They fit perfectly side by side under either seat in the cockpit, and I have only to setup some hose and a tank valve to put them into use.
The metal tanks cost more but are also more durable and will last longer I would assume. That combined with the nice fit and a possible 24 gallon total capacity makes the metal tanks a good option I think.
Because the Tempo 6 gallon plastic is a flat configuration, you can only fit one of them under the seat, and anything else you can shove under that seat risks contact or ? with the fuel line. The taller, but reduced footprint metal 6 gallon tanks deserve serious consideration I'd say.

[Flip]

I and I think several others have installed Tempo 12s. At least on my boat these are a major pain to try to get out empty much less full. I put an 8 inch deck plate in the seat over each fill port. The tanks can move very little so mounting straps are not needed.

Grounding, I have not yet figured out. if I put in permanent fuel lines I think I could run a ground wire with them. Then a ground plate below the water line. But then I fill at least halph of the time on the trailer, so grounding is not possible except through my actions as others have described above.

[Paul S]

I was going to use 2 12 gallon like the dealer's demo boat (pic here). I modified his tanks with 90 degree elbows as the hose conenctor was hitting the back of my legs when I moved around (pic here)

The thought of lifting them is not a pleasant thought. I thought of 4 6-gallon metal cans. But the cost is significanly higher than the tempos

What abot just putting a wire on the lip of the plastic tank and dropping it to the ground. Would that work to ground the tank..or is it just stupid?

Paul

[Jack O'Brien]

OMC makes a 6 (not 6.5) gallon plastic tank. Two fit in each X locker. You can get them in by pushing down on the top a bit or cut a quarter inch or 3/8 inch off the bottom of the top edge of the locker.

[Paul S]

OMC makes a 6 (not 6.5) gallon plastic tank. Two fit in each X locker. You can get them in by pushing down on the top a bit or cut a quarter inch or 3/8 inch off the bottom of the top edge of the locker.

Where would one find this tank? I did a quick search and could not find it. Wonder if they would work on an M

Paul

[Jack O'Brien]

Paul:

OMC dealers have catalogs they order the Duratank from. You can get them with or without the quick connector fitting. Cheaper to get the tank without the fitting and buy one at Walmart. The caps have screw vents but no gauges. The portability of 6-gallon tanks allows filling with less expensive gasoline at a land station.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I have 4 tempo Ultra tanks, 2 are rated at 3.5 gallons, and the other 2 are 6.5 gallons giving a possible total of 20 gallons (18 is more reasonable). They can all fit in the (unmodified) fuel lockers together and are very portable. I can mix and match capacity depending on what kind of trip I'm planning.

More about tanks was written in this thread:

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=312

[Tom Root]

Wow, some interesting stuff here for sure! I have seen the after affects of several fires in jets I worked with! (A-6E Intruders) The worst being a refueling operation in the hot pit's ( Engine's Running) in the Phillipines back in the 80's. Now this stuff, JP-5, has a higher flash point than gasoline, and it was determined that it was in fact static electricity was the culprit also. Unfortunately 2 men lost their lives in that incident! The deadly mistake was that the Ground Refueling team did not put the provided ground strap in the appropriate place, as per SOP, and suffered the consequences of their misdeed!

I consistantly pull up to the pumps while on the trailor, and fuel each 7 1/2 gallon tank on the deck of the boat. I think two lessons learned by this thread, is to make, and use a grounding strap with alligator clips, and never use a funnel. I think I'll also keep my fire extinguisher closer to the whole operation. I was going to have 3, 5 gallon Jerry Cans under the stern seat, but decided against that, as refueling can be really tricky when rockin' and rollin' on the waves. I considered the possibility of getting a big fine from the the Coast Guard etc. if I ever created a spill. ( Not covered in any insurance policy I know of!) But I am now convinced this is NOT the way to go, as a possible fire hazard.

[Paul S]

Wow, some interesting stuff here for sure! I have seen the after affects of several fires in jets I worked with! (A-6E Intruders) The worst being a refueling operation in the hot pit's ( Engine's Running) in the Phillipines back in the 80's. Now this stuff, JP-5, has a higher flash point than gasoline, and it was determined that it was in fact static electricity was the culprit also. Unfortunately 2 men lost their lives in that incident! The deadly mistake was that the Ground Refueling team did not put the provided ground strap in the appropriate place, as per SOP, and suffered the consequences of their misdeed!

I consistantly pull up to the pumps while on the trailor, and fuel each 7 1/2 gallon tank on the deck of the boat. I think two lessons learned by this thread, is to make, and use a grounding strap with alligator clips, and never use a funnel. I think I'll also keep my fire extinguisher closer to the whole operation. I was going to have 3, 5 gallon tanks under the stern seat, but decided against that, as refueling can be really tricky when rockin' and rollin' on the waves. I considered the possibility of getting a big fine from the the Coast Guard etc. if I ever created a spill. ( Not covered in any insurance policy I know of!) But I am now convinced this is NOT the way to go, as a possible fire hazard.

Where would you attached the clips of the strap? where would it be grounded to? The ground? The boat or trailer?

Yea..never use a funnel..that almost goes without saying..but you know people...someone will do it.

[Tom Root]

Paul, I'll make one up and let you know what worked! I would say that something from the tank to the nozzle would work, as this is where the real difference in potential that exists to allow a spark to arc. As some were saying the other things that can be done is to keep the nozzle in contact with the can at all times during fueling can also avoid an arc.

In my Aircraft analogy though, when refueling an aircraft on the deck, the device to hook it up actually made contact the whole time,(Nozzle and A/C fuel fitting) but the initial introduction of the nozzle has the possiblility of an arc, and when pulling away from the tank may also cause an arc if static electricity has built up! SOP, was to hook the static discharge line up first, fuel, then remove the line.

Therefore, a ground point which connected to a port on the aircraft was bonded to all fuel tanks, and transfer fittings throughout the aircraft. This can be a consideration to those of you who are adding permanant tanks below. Bonding and grounding was a science of it's own, and as an Avionics Tech I dealt with these issues all the time! RFI, St Elmo's fire, actual lightening strikes, all of these can cause real havoc on an aircraft. Most of what I have done succesfully on fitting aircraft Grounding/Bonding techniques can applied to boats as well.