Completely unfurling a 150 Genoa?

[NiceAft]

BOAT, please don't take this the wrong way, I really mean no disrespect, but, good for you The guy has a problem that others don't have. We're just trying to help.

On my , the line leaving the drum first passes around the outside of the first pulpit post, and then straight back to the port cleat. It does not pass through any eyes either. My line was too thick for the drum, and thus the problems. Maybe your line is also 3/16

Ray

[NiceAft]

Whoops! I read that as 3/32". I am 99% sure I am using 5/32" right now. I was contemplating going down to 1/4". Never thought about decoring part of the line though, that might be worth a try too.

Bob,

1/4 = 4/16. That is larger than 3/16. If you're at 5/32 (2.5/16 ) now, going to a 1/4 is larger, not smaller. Check to be certain what your line is before any purchases.

Ray

[BOAT]

BOAT, please don't take this the wrong way, I really mean no disrespect, but, good for you The guy has a problem that others don't have. We're just trying to help.

On my , the line leaving the drum first passes around the outside of the first pulpit post, and then straight back to the port cleat. It does not pass through any eyes either. My line was too thick for the drum, and thus the problems. Maybe your line is also 3/16

Ray

Hey Ray, thanks for correcting me - I was trying to say that there is a pulley - the line goes from the drum to a pulley - that is how it's suppose to be in my mind because that pulley guides the line properly into the drum. I just assumed everyone has a pulley right at the front of the boat where the line goes though and that pulley is what guides the line onto the drum.

Is that not the way it is on all the other boats? (I thought that was factory). I guess I'm suggesting that if the pulley is not there it might be the problem?

[bobbob]

Whoops! I read that as 3/32". I am 99% sure I am using 5/32" right now. I was contemplating going down to 1/4". Never thought about decoring part of the line though, that might be worth a try too.

Bob,

1/4 = 4/16. That is larger than 3/16. If you're at 5/32 (2.5/16 ) now, going to a 1/4 is larger, not smaller. Check to be certain what your line is before any purchases.

Ray

Gah! I'm all turned around now, I don't know anymore will definitely double check before changing.

BOAT, my fueling line runs through an eye mounted on the deck instead of a block, with the same principle to keep the line at the right angle to wind up properly. A block would probably be even better.

[Tomfoolery]

Hey Ray, thanks for correcting me - I was trying to say that there is a pulley - the line goes from the drum to a pulley - that is how it's suppose to be in my mind because that pulley guides the line properly into the drum. I just assumed everyone has a pulley right at the front of the boat where the line goes though and that pulley is what guides the line onto the drum.

Is that not the way it is on all the other boats? (I thought that was factory). I guess I'm suggesting that if the pulley is not there it might be the problem?

On a big boat with a big furler, a sheave with rolling element bearings is the way to go, to keep the friction down. But on a small boat, with light load on the furling line (when furling the sail), a cheap block with plain (sleeve) bearing is no better than a bulls-eye fairlead, especially when the sheave seizes. The line is only turning a small angle, so friction is minimal compared to turning 90 degrees or more, and as I said, it's a light load. A SS bulls-eye fairlead will offer relatively little friction, and IMO at least, is perfectly fine for that application.

Mine has a small stand-up block, but for all I know, the sheave is seized and the line just runs over the plastic. My last boat had clamp-on fairleads on the lifeline rails to guide the furling line, and the cheap plastic sheaves were usually seized. But it didn't matter, since they were only putting a small angle in the line, and bulls-eye fairleads would have worked just as well. The fairlead to the furler drum was a real ball bearing sheave block, though, and the line was at least 1/4" if not more. Big sail, big load on the furler line.

[BOAT]

Hey Ray, thanks for correcting me - I was trying to say that there is a pulley - the line goes from the drum to a pulley - that is how it's suppose to be in my mind because that pulley guides the line properly into the drum. I just assumed everyone has a pulley right at the front of the boat where the line goes though and that pulley is what guides the line onto the drum.

Is that not the way it is on all the other boats? (I thought that was factory). I guess I'm suggesting that if the pulley is not there it might be the problem?

On a big boat with a big furler, a sheave with rolling element bearings is the way to go, to keep the friction down. But on a small boat, with light load on the furling line (when furling the sail), a cheap block with plain (sleeve) bearing is no better than a bulls-eye fairlead, especially when the sheave seizes. The line is only turning a small angle, so friction is minimal compared to turning 90 degrees or more, and as I said, it's a light load. A SS bulls-eye fairlead will offer relatively little friction, and IMO at least, is perfectly fine for that application.

Mine has a small stand-up block, but for all I know, the sheave is seized and the line just runs over the plastic. My last boat had clamp-on fairleads on the lifeline rails to guide the furling line, and the cheap plastic sheaves were usually seized. But it didn't matter, since they were only putting a small angle in the line, and bulls-eye fairleads would have worked just as well. The fairlead to the furler drum was a real ball bearing sheave block, though, and the line was at least 1/4" if not more. Big sail, big load on the furler line.

When the wind is strong I need to pull pretty hard to get the sail back in - I think it would be a LOT harder if that pulley block was not there - in my mind it really helps a lot. I just assumed everyone had a pulley - I was wrong. Based on my set up I would recommend a pulley. I guess I don't have a delicate way of saying that? That's what I recommend and I hope that does not offend anyone and I'm sorry if it does - I don't mean it that way.

[Judy B]

The line is only turning a small angle, so friction is minimal compared to turning 90 degrees or more, and as I said, it's a light load. A SS bulls-eye fairlead will offer relatively little friction, and IMO at least, is perfectly fine for that application.

I would agree with Tom's explanation.

To restate his point: If the furling line is deflected very little (small angle of deflection), then a SS bulls-eye fairlead is perfectly fine to use. It will be low friction unless the furling line is binding somewhere else, putting a lot of tension on the line. Lots of boats use bullseye fairleads. It's usually very easy to get the furling line lead aft with very little deflection, and therefore, very little friction.

The significant disadvantage to using a fairlead, IMO, is that you have to drill two holes in the deck, and that increases the risk of water getting into the deck.

Even on much larger and heavier boats, it takes very little strength to pull the furling line when the furling line is properly aligned with the drum and there aren't huge bends in the furling line. If it takes muscle to furl the headsail, then there's a bad lead somewhere, or the technique is wrong. If the lead is fair, a 10 year old kid should be strong enough to furl a 26X genoa in a gale.

Judy B

[sailboatmike]

My JOG boat has STANCHION BULLSEYE FAIRLEADS for the furling line

They are great as you dont have to drill holes in the boat, they just attach to your life lines

https://www.nautos-usa.com/product/450a ... lead-block

[DaveC426913]

If the lead is fair, a 10 year old kid should be strong enough to furl a 26X genoa in a gale.

Been a long time since I've been called a 9 year old kid!

[vizwhiz]

My S has/had a SS bulls-eye fairlead mounted on the deck from the factory. Then I found that when i raised the furler with the addition of a Johnson lever, the fairlead was no longer positioned to route the line onto the furler drum properly. So I had to move the fairlead up higher, and the only place to do that is the pulpit stanchions. So I bought the clamp-on style fairleads (need two now because of how the line has to be routed to the drum from the side). That seems to work. So having the fairlead in the right place, and leading it onto the drum properly, makes a big difference.

(But I failed to buy the SS type and they are cutting through very quickly. Will be replacing them with SS type right away.)

Also noticed that if the various pins used to attach the furler and Johnson lever together, and the pin to the chainplate, are too small, it allows the whole furler drum to swivel too much nad that can throw off the furling/unfurling process.

Last, how much tension you have on the genoa when you furl makes a difference to how tight the sail wraps up, a d how much line is needed - i.e. how many turns on the drum. If you keep it tight, the sail furls up tight, which is good, but takes more turns to get the whole thing furled. More turns is more rope on the drum and thus thicker, you can't fit as thick a line on there.

There are several things to consider. Maybe you should take a video of furling and unfurling and post it. I'd bet the experienced sailors will see the problem right away!

[DaveC426913]

Then I found that when i raised the furler with the addition of a Johnson lever,

Something I would very much like to do some day. If only because I have a heckuva time getting the forestay to reach the deckplate when raising the mast.

Last, how much tension you have on the genoa when you furl makes a difference to how tight the sail wraps up, a d how much line is needed - i.e. how many turns on the drum. If you keep it tight, the sail furls up tight, which is good, but takes more turns to get the whole thing furled. More turns is more rope on the drum and thus thicker, you can't fit as thick a line on there.

Indeed. when furling in a fresh breeze, the sail can be wrapped so tight that there is not enough furling line to fully furl the sail. I've been forced to leave a few square meters of headsail out on occasion, and must re-furl it once on dock. Trying to dock in a fresh breeze with a partially deployed headsail is an adventure.

[bobbob]

This weekend I finally got a chance to try this - with the lower diameter furling line the Genoa completely unfurled no problem. So the furling line was definitely getting stuck due to diameter. I like the hand feeling of the larger line so I might try decoring part of it.

I was also able to get up to 4.5 knots in a < 10kt breeze with just the really old blown out headsail! It got me thinking again about my plans to order a cruising code zero - maybe I will be happy with a new lightweight Genoa after all. It would be nice to made speed in just a couple knots of wind but the reality is I'm a lazy sailor - if I'm not making an easy 4knots I'm probably just going to motor it

[NiceAft]

This weekend I finally got a chance to try this - with the lower diameter furling line the Genoa completely unfurled no problem. So the furling line was definitely getting stuck due to diameter. I like the hand feeling of the larger line so I might try decoring part of it.

I was also able to get up to 4.5 knots in a < 10kt breeze with just the really old blown out headsail! It got me thinking again about my plans to order a cruising code zero - maybe I will be happy with a new lightweight Genoa after all. It would be nice to made speed in just a couple knots of wind but the reality is I'm a lazy sailor - if I'm not making an easy 4knots I'm probably just going to motor it

OK

Problem solved

P.S. I was once told that “everything on a boat is broken; you just don't know it yet ”

[bobbob]

Yup!

Now that the sail is unfurled I see it's a Doyle sail - could this be OEM? If so it's almost 20 years old!

[NiceAft]

Yup!

Now that the sail is unfurled I see it's a Doyle sail - could this be OEM? If so it's almost 20 years old!

It's quite possible that the original owner had it replaced with a Doyle. Don't worry about the age, place your concern on its performance.

Ray
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