A recent single handed trip on the CHesapeake, I had to solo raise the main.
I took two Harken blocks and clipped one to the vang bail at base of mast.
Block number two went on the rear stanchion clip.
My vang double block with cleat went on the forward stanchion clip.
I routed the main halyard down, picked up the mast base block, turned on the first vang block, back to the back block, forward to the other vang block, then back to the cockpit.
In a flash of brilliance, I tied my main sailties on the bottom of the sail so I can reach them without going up top.
Now I head up into the wind, and pull the main up from the cockpit, then slip it into the cleat on the vang when I have it tight.
It worked well, but winds were light, so I didnt need a tight main halyard.
Ill take pix for the mods section when I get a chance.
Poor mans Main Halyard Raising System
At the risk of being trite....
A picture (or two) is definitely worth a thousand words. Thanks for posting the pics. I've got a better idea of your system now and can't wait to give it a try.
Now, would you work on the weather down here?
We've had a miserable weekend on the Gulf Coast!
Thanks a bunch!!
A picture (or two) is definitely worth a thousand words. Thanks for posting the pics. I've got a better idea of your system now and can't wait to give it a try.
Now, would you work on the weather down here?
We've had a miserable weekend on the Gulf Coast!Thanks a bunch!!
-
Catigale
- Site Admin
- Posts: 10421
- Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:59 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Admiral .............Catigale 2002X.......Lots of Harpoon Hobie 16 Skiffs....Island 17
- Contact:
You're Welcome Simian!!
Board 998, Catigale 2.
The only thing lacking in this is a good way to cleat off the main once you have got good tension on it. I used the double block with jam cleat on the back stanchion first, then went to the 2:1 idea later. The first method worked fine in light air.
By the way, if you dont have a vang, you can mount the first block on the mast pin on a tang or even a double eyebolt.
I got chased off the Hudson twice by T'Storms this weekend, but other than the whisker pole incident, had a great time out.
Board 998, Catigale 2.
The only thing lacking in this is a good way to cleat off the main once you have got good tension on it. I used the double block with jam cleat on the back stanchion first, then went to the 2:1 idea later. The first method worked fine in light air.
By the way, if you dont have a vang, you can mount the first block on the mast pin on a tang or even a double eyebolt.
I got chased off the Hudson twice by T'Storms this weekend, but other than the whisker pole incident, had a great time out.
You system looks like it would be great from an 
.
For an
, of course, there would be rotating mast issues.
I have been toying with the idea of clipping a block to the mast base, where the boom vang attaches. This part rotates with the mast...
Then, I would secure a block with a cleat to the mainsheet boom bail.
The idea being to run the main halyard down to the block at the base and then out to the block and cleat on the boom.
As long as the boom was somewhere over the cockpit, you'd be able to raise the main from the cockpit. Also, the tension on the main halyard would act as a boom vang. Using the vang's blocks, and long enough line, I could even get an advantage...
This sort of kills two birds with one stone. Also, there would be nothing to prevent rotation, as the whole thing would rotate with the mast...
One issue I see, is that the mainsail would now be part of the boom vang system, with the associated tension... But, the advantage would work both ways, wouldn't it? In other words, assuming a 4-1 advantage, the mainsail would see 1/4 the tension of the boom vang, which is the tension that you see when tightening the vang. So, this is likely not a problem.
Another issue would be that the 'halyard/vang' would attach to the boom farther out. I expect that would have some impact on vang effectiveness...
Adjustment would only be possible with the boom accessible to the cockpit. As the boom is only inassessible when running downwind, this isn't a real issue. Besides, you'd want to head up anyway anytime you messed with the main, wouldn't you?
.For an
, of course, there would be rotating mast issues.I have been toying with the idea of clipping a block to the mast base, where the boom vang attaches. This part rotates with the mast...
Then, I would secure a block with a cleat to the mainsheet boom bail.
The idea being to run the main halyard down to the block at the base and then out to the block and cleat on the boom.
As long as the boom was somewhere over the cockpit, you'd be able to raise the main from the cockpit. Also, the tension on the main halyard would act as a boom vang. Using the vang's blocks, and long enough line, I could even get an advantage...
This sort of kills two birds with one stone. Also, there would be nothing to prevent rotation, as the whole thing would rotate with the mast...
One issue I see, is that the mainsail would now be part of the boom vang system, with the associated tension... But, the advantage would work both ways, wouldn't it? In other words, assuming a 4-1 advantage, the mainsail would see 1/4 the tension of the boom vang, which is the tension that you see when tightening the vang. So, this is likely not a problem.
Another issue would be that the 'halyard/vang' would attach to the boom farther out. I expect that would have some impact on vang effectiveness...
Adjustment would only be possible with the boom accessible to the cockpit. As the boom is only inassessible when running downwind, this isn't a real issue. Besides, you'd want to head up anyway anytime you messed with the main, wouldn't you?
-
Catigale
- Site Admin
- Posts: 10421
- Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:59 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Admiral .............Catigale 2002X.......Lots of Harpoon Hobie 16 Skiffs....Island 17
- Contact:
DLT
If you put Block number two up at the gooseneck, you could eliminate the 'extra vang' problem I think?? Maybe you could even eliminate the block at the base and just come back down the boom directly to a block/cleat combo?
I dont know the M layout, but the X has some bolts and things that you could probably tang off a turning block there.
If you put Block number two up at the gooseneck, you could eliminate the 'extra vang' problem I think?? Maybe you could even eliminate the block at the base and just come back down the boom directly to a block/cleat combo?
I dont know the M layout, but the X has some bolts and things that you could probably tang off a turning block there.
I see... keeping the whole mess above the boom, huh?
Although, I wasn't thinking of an 'extra' vang... I was thinking of using the blocks from my vang... Essentially reversing the vang blocks so that the one with the cam was secured to the boom (but at the boom bail rather than the vang bail) and the one without the cam was secured to the mast base.
So, this really would be a combination of boom vang and main halyard...
If I'm thinking about this right, and assuming a 4-1 advantage in the blocks, hoisting the main and the main itself would see 1/4 of the tension that the 'vang' sees.
As I think about this, I'm thinking that the combination would probably fight each other... In other words, as I pulled the line, I'm both tensioning the main halyard and the 'vang'. But, the 'vang' (through the 4-1 advantage) sees 4 times the tension that the main halyard sees. The end result may mean that proper tension on the mainsail may be difficult to achieve, since pulling the line actually pulls the boom down 4 times as hard as it pulls the mainsail up...
If tensioning the main proves to be impossible, I can just remove the advantage and sail with a 'weak' vang... Here, I should be able to counter any downward tendacy, by just resting the boom on my shoulder as I hoist the main.
Even with no advantage, I might still get decent sail shape, since any tendency of the wind to lift the boom, would tighten the main halyard...
I may just have to rig this up and see what happens...
Although, I wasn't thinking of an 'extra' vang... I was thinking of using the blocks from my vang... Essentially reversing the vang blocks so that the one with the cam was secured to the boom (but at the boom bail rather than the vang bail) and the one without the cam was secured to the mast base.
So, this really would be a combination of boom vang and main halyard...
If I'm thinking about this right, and assuming a 4-1 advantage in the blocks, hoisting the main and the main itself would see 1/4 of the tension that the 'vang' sees.
As I think about this, I'm thinking that the combination would probably fight each other... In other words, as I pulled the line, I'm both tensioning the main halyard and the 'vang'. But, the 'vang' (through the 4-1 advantage) sees 4 times the tension that the main halyard sees. The end result may mean that proper tension on the mainsail may be difficult to achieve, since pulling the line actually pulls the boom down 4 times as hard as it pulls the mainsail up...
If tensioning the main proves to be impossible, I can just remove the advantage and sail with a 'weak' vang... Here, I should be able to counter any downward tendacy, by just resting the boom on my shoulder as I hoist the main.
Even with no advantage, I might still get decent sail shape, since any tendency of the wind to lift the boom, would tighten the main halyard...
I may just have to rig this up and see what happens...
Yeah, I'm pretty sure my stock line would be too short to run it through the blocks for a 4-1 advantage.
But, my stock line should work fine, without an advantage, i.e. just run it down to the block at the base and then out to the block on the boom...
I already have the blocks, from my vang.
Also, Home Depot has 100' of 7/16 nylon line for ~$20.
So, it will cost me nothing to try it without advantage, and $20 to try it with...
This seems too simple...
There has got to be a reason why this is not a good idea...
But, my stock line should work fine, without an advantage, i.e. just run it down to the block at the base and then out to the block on the boom...
I already have the blocks, from my vang.
Also, Home Depot has 100' of 7/16 nylon line for ~$20.
So, it will cost me nothing to try it without advantage, and $20 to try it with...
This seems too simple...
There has got to be a reason why this is not a good idea...
-
Catigale
- Site Admin
- Posts: 10421
- Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:59 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Admiral .............Catigale 2002X.......Lots of Harpoon Hobie 16 Skiffs....Island 17
- Contact:
THe only nasty I can think of is if you let the boom get away from you, you cant reach the main.
But you always head up into the wind to get the main down which brings the boom back on centerline. If anything, I think the main on the boom would be easier to deal with than anywhere else, you can helm into the wind and watch the windex while you are dealing with the main!!
Why is this Gates guy trying to sell us this Disk Operating System?
Lets just license it instead..
DOH!!!
But you always head up into the wind to get the main down which brings the boom back on centerline. If anything, I think the main on the boom would be easier to deal with than anywhere else, you can helm into the wind and watch the windex while you are dealing with the main!!
Sound like IBM in 1982This seems too simple...
There has got to be a reason why this is not a good idea...
Why is this Gates guy trying to sell us this Disk Operating System?
Lets just license it instead..
DOH!!!
-
Frank C
Nice adaptations, Stephen.
But one part of DLT's simple, inexpensive system is a definite no-no. That $20 HD nylon line is distinctly the wrong choice, not for cost but for properties. Nylon is the more stretchy of line fabrics, exactly why it's recommended for anchors ... exactly why it's the wrong choice for a halyard.
Also, extra purchase for our Mac halyards isn't needed, so 2:1 should be more than ample. My halyard is led aft (1:1) and even with friction losses, I can always get ample tension by just pulling with feet planted at the cabin bulkhead. Of course this requires holding the bow directly upwind - otherwise extra purchase would be welcomed - but that's not the best way to hoist the main. Consider sticking with the factory halyard.
But one part of DLT's simple, inexpensive system is a definite no-no. That $20 HD nylon line is distinctly the wrong choice, not for cost but for properties. Nylon is the more stretchy of line fabrics, exactly why it's recommended for anchors ... exactly why it's the wrong choice for a halyard.
Also, extra purchase for our Mac halyards isn't needed, so 2:1 should be more than ample. My halyard is led aft (1:1) and even with friction losses, I can always get ample tension by just pulling with feet planted at the cabin bulkhead. Of course this requires holding the bow directly upwind - otherwise extra purchase would be welcomed - but that's not the best way to hoist the main. Consider sticking with the factory halyard.
From West Marine Advisor: In almost all running rigging, less stretch is better, but some applications are more critical. In general, lines which act directly on the corner of a sail, like halyards, sheets and guys, require the lowest stretch and the greatest strength. Control lines that are adjusted frequently are less affected by stretch. For lines like mainsheets, vangs, outhauls, etc., good handling characteristics (flexibility) and good abrasion resistance are more important than low stretch.
Ok Frank,
The HD line is out... But, you also suggest no purchase, advantage, etc... So, maybe my stock line will work fine...
But, maybe I've confused myself...
With what I'm thinking about, no matter what how it is configured, you'd actually get no purchase/advantage on the halyard itself... For example, no matter what, you'd only have one line going up to the main halyard block at the top of the mast.
The only place you might get purchase/advantage is between the block at the mast base (B1) and the block on the boom bail (B2), i.e. the boom vang portion of this mess... There, if you had enough line, you could get as much as 4:1.
Actually, on second thought, with the blocks arranged as I've discussed, I could only get a 3:1 advantage:
- The line comes down from the main block at the top of the mast to B1.
- The line goes from B1 to B2.
(You could stop right here. This would give you no purchase/advantage at all)
- The line goes from B2 to B1 and back to B2.
(Now, you have three runs of line between B1 and B2, and therefore a 3:1 purchase/advantage between B1 and B2. The "B1 to B2" portion sort of acts as a boom vang. But, you only have one run of line up the mast, so no 'halyard' purchase/advantage.)
At this point, using the vang blocks I have, I'd run out of sheaves, and therefore cannot get any more purchase/advantage. Actually, IIRC the set of boom vang blocks only has three sheaves. So, to get any advantage with this arrangement, the line would have to make one turn without a sheave...
B1 = The stock boom vang block without the cam cleat and secured to the rotating mast base, thereby rotating with the mast.
B2 = Thestock boom vang block with the cam cleat and secured to the boom bail for the mainsheet.
Another issue occured to me. The line coming down from the top of the mast would want to run right into the way of the sail slugs, reef hook, and alongside the gooseneck. That might be an issue. But, this might be countered by running the line forward of the main halyard cleat, sort of using the cleat as a turning block. Since the angle is so shallow, you probably wouldn't get too much friction/resistance there... Although, if this works out, I might mount a cheek block...
A final issue would be that no matter how you run the line through the blocks, if you tried to get an advantage/purchase between B1 and B2, the line would rub against itself.
Ok, so this idea got more complicated that I thought. Also, I'm still kinda worried about the interaction between the downward force on the boom and the upward force on the mainsail...
But, with that said, I have not yet heard a reason not to at least try this...
The whole mess would simply rotate with the mast, and not require any more hardware than I already have. Best of all, it doesn't require any permanent changes or crowd the deck with lines. So, it is essentially self contained...
In response to Stephen's caution. Yes, if the boom gets away you have a problem - can't drop the mainsail... Of course, If the boom gets away, it ain't goin too far on an M, since the upper shrouds will stop it. If the shrouds don't stop it, then you have bigger troubles...
Besides, right now, the only way I can douse the main is to go up top. I sure don't want to do that with a runaway boom...
The HD line is out... But, you also suggest no purchase, advantage, etc... So, maybe my stock line will work fine...
But, maybe I've confused myself...
With what I'm thinking about, no matter what how it is configured, you'd actually get no purchase/advantage on the halyard itself... For example, no matter what, you'd only have one line going up to the main halyard block at the top of the mast.
The only place you might get purchase/advantage is between the block at the mast base (B1) and the block on the boom bail (B2), i.e. the boom vang portion of this mess... There, if you had enough line, you could get as much as 4:1.
Actually, on second thought, with the blocks arranged as I've discussed, I could only get a 3:1 advantage:
- The line comes down from the main block at the top of the mast to B1.
- The line goes from B1 to B2.
(You could stop right here. This would give you no purchase/advantage at all)
- The line goes from B2 to B1 and back to B2.
(Now, you have three runs of line between B1 and B2, and therefore a 3:1 purchase/advantage between B1 and B2. The "B1 to B2" portion sort of acts as a boom vang. But, you only have one run of line up the mast, so no 'halyard' purchase/advantage.)
At this point, using the vang blocks I have, I'd run out of sheaves, and therefore cannot get any more purchase/advantage. Actually, IIRC the set of boom vang blocks only has three sheaves. So, to get any advantage with this arrangement, the line would have to make one turn without a sheave...
B1 = The stock boom vang block without the cam cleat and secured to the rotating mast base, thereby rotating with the mast.
B2 = Thestock boom vang block with the cam cleat and secured to the boom bail for the mainsheet.
Another issue occured to me. The line coming down from the top of the mast would want to run right into the way of the sail slugs, reef hook, and alongside the gooseneck. That might be an issue. But, this might be countered by running the line forward of the main halyard cleat, sort of using the cleat as a turning block. Since the angle is so shallow, you probably wouldn't get too much friction/resistance there... Although, if this works out, I might mount a cheek block...
A final issue would be that no matter how you run the line through the blocks, if you tried to get an advantage/purchase between B1 and B2, the line would rub against itself.
Ok, so this idea got more complicated that I thought. Also, I'm still kinda worried about the interaction between the downward force on the boom and the upward force on the mainsail...
But, with that said, I have not yet heard a reason not to at least try this...
The whole mess would simply rotate with the mast, and not require any more hardware than I already have. Best of all, it doesn't require any permanent changes or crowd the deck with lines. So, it is essentially self contained...
In response to Stephen's caution. Yes, if the boom gets away you have a problem - can't drop the mainsail... Of course, If the boom gets away, it ain't goin too far on an M, since the upper shrouds will stop it. If the shrouds don't stop it, then you have bigger troubles...
Besides, right now, the only way I can douse the main is to go up top. I sure don't want to do that with a runaway boom...
-
Chip Hindes
- Admiral
- Posts: 2166
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:13 am
- Location: West Sand Lake, NY '01X, "Nextboat" 50HP Tohatsu
DLT, your boom mounted halyard/ vang won't work properly. Whichever side of the mast the halyard is on, as you tighten it, the boom will be pulled in that direction in relation to the mast. Although the mast will be free to rotate, the angle it will end up iin relation to the boom, and thus its angle to the wind, will be wrong. You will have sacrificed the advantage of the rotating mast to no good purpose. If you're going to do that, lock the mast in place and run the halyard aft in the conventional manner.
You're also crossing lines on the mast base/gooseneck sheaves which will be an abrasion problem.
You need to be able to adjust vang tension and halyard tension independently. Your system virtually guarantees that whatever you do, both halyard tension and vang tension will be wrong.
As far as I can determine from your latest description you've got two blocks (mainsheet and vang/halyard) which are supposed to work independently, attached to the same bail. They'll interfere physically as the boom rotates from side to side. Plus, they pull in different directions and the interaction could be a nightmare to predict. For instance, when you pull the mainsheet taught, that will pull the bail down, which will also tighten the main halyard and the vang. And so on.
Go ahead and try it. It will be a mess.
You're also crossing lines on the mast base/gooseneck sheaves which will be an abrasion problem.
You need to be able to adjust vang tension and halyard tension independently. Your system virtually guarantees that whatever you do, both halyard tension and vang tension will be wrong.
As far as I can determine from your latest description you've got two blocks (mainsheet and vang/halyard) which are supposed to work independently, attached to the same bail. They'll interfere physically as the boom rotates from side to side. Plus, they pull in different directions and the interaction could be a nightmare to predict. For instance, when you pull the mainsheet taught, that will pull the bail down, which will also tighten the main halyard and the vang. And so on.
Go ahead and try it. It will be a mess.