Mission Beach area San Diego

[A-1 Boss]

I'm planning a trip to San Diego with my 26m. My buddy like to launch at Mission Bay area near Seaforth. It looks like we would have to go under the bridge that connects sunset point to Ventura Point. According to charts this bridge is supposed to be 38'. Have any of you gone under it in a 26m? Thanks in advance just planning for future trip.

[BOAT]

I would be very surprised if any bridge over Mission Bay is over 35 feet. I don't know of anyone with a sailboat that has ever launched at Mission Bay - it's very small. If the MAC could get under it I sure would be surprised, it would be a nice place to put in I guess if you want to see Mission Bay. Even at 38 feet that's cutting it close - maybe you can get everyone to sit on one side of the boat so it is tipped over when you pass under it. Rumor is that Mission Bay ramp is really busy (full of jet skis) and has no docks. Still, that should not deter you, (heck, my ramp in Oceanside is packed tight like a sardine can!)

I think the best place to launch in San Diego is Pepper Park. Pepper Park is in the south-most part of San Diego Bay, (not in Mission Bay). To get to Mission Bay from Pepper Park you would need to take a long sail out of San Diego Bay around Point Loma north to Mission Bay. You would need to go out to sea a long ways past Point Loma to avoid the kelp beds there. Pepper Park is not crowded - it's big with lots of docks and very nice.

If you are okay with stepping your mast on the water I think Mission Bay would be nice - but it's a rather small bay and could be a little crowded for sailing around in a boat like ours, but I'm sure there are people that do it. Mission Bay would be a lot of fun to just motor around in.

Let's see if anyone else reads this and replies - if they don't I will contact mastreb and see if he ever sailed Mission Bay. I used to sail it all the time as an 11 year old kid in a 12 foot boat so my info is sort of old.

There are not many MAC boats down here - hardly none, so I'm not sure we will get any reply to this.

[BOAT]

I found this post in the site about mission bay - this guy made it under but he is in a D boat which is not as tall as the M boat.

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... 31#p306665

[seadog]

Hi Guys,
I have launched my X out of Mission Bay numerous times. I use either Dana or South Shore boat ramps. Dana can be a bit more crowded on the weekends. South Shore is just east of Sea World and sometimes can have more traffic from the park's exit.
As far as the bridges...it looks close, especially at high tide, but very do-able. Take it from me, go under the highest part of the bridge, otherwise your wife might freak out.
BTW...Mariners cove is a nice spot to anchor in and spend up to 3 nights for free. It's close to the opening of Mission Bay and very protected. It's across from the bait barge and has a view of the Belmont roller coaster. It's fun to launch, park for free, sail all day looking for whales/dolphins/mermaids, anchor up, row/paddle or swim 50' into shore, grab a slice of pizza, row back and spend the night. Next day repeat or simply head home.
***Disclaimer*** If you only cruise in the bay "avoid the jet ski area" at all costs. The 4th of July is insane traveling on the water but the fireworks make it worth it. Just get there a day or 2 before the madness happens and hunker down.
Take Care,
Seadog

[seadog]

...Or you could try this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiv0fxFcV3I

...Bigger is not always better.

[bobflshmn]

I'm the guy with the D who sailed under both bridges. High tide is 34 ft under the bridges. When I passed under the water line was at 35/36 ft. I have a 3 ft antenna on top which almost touched the bridge but did clear. Not sure by home much but there are boats at the Sea World Marina right by one of the bridges taller than mine. They must be watching the tide to sail out. Not sure what you clear off the water but the Mission Bay web site calls the bridges 34 ft at high tide. I would sail out of there again and the ramp is great by Sea World.

[A-1 Boss]

Thanks for info. That video of that sailboat going under that bridge is nuts. I guess I'll have to invest in some huge weights to hang off my mast.....haha. I guess I could leave mast raising system in place and just lower to go under bridge or launch somewhere else. It looks like the mast on the M is 2' taller than an X. If there's anyone out there who has cleared the bridge in an M would love to hear from you.

[BOAT]

Thanks for info. That video of that sailboat going under that bridge is nuts. I guess I'll have to invest in some huge weights to hang off my mast.....haha. I guess I could leave mast raising system in place and just lower to go under bridge or launch somewhere else. It looks like the mast on the M is 2' taller than an X. If there's anyone out there who has cleared the bridge in an M would love to hear from you.

They are not weights, they are bags full of sea water. Been there done that, but not with two bags - only one. Used it to get under power lines at lake Powell. You just take a big canvas bag and attach it to your spinnaker line and dump the bag in the water - when you haul the bag up it will swing back towards the mast. You tie a rope to the bag and then gently push the bag out with a whisker pole - as the boat heels the bag will want to pull away further and further from the boat but if you keep the bag low enough using the spinnaker line it will sit on the water before it tips your boat over - use the rope you attached to the bag to keep it the right length from the boat - haul on the spinnaker line to tip the boat over.

When your done just pull on the rope attached to the bag to get it back close to the mast and the boat will be upright again.

First time I saw this done was in the 60's.

Im not going to do that at Mission Bay and I'm still 2 feet too tall if only an X can pass under. These bridge problems are really making me mad because it's happening more and more as more places put ramps behind bridges. I can't get under the Queensway in Long Beach so now there is no place to launch in Long Beach anymore either. Few places are trailer sailor friendly anymore. makes me really mad.

[Tomfoolery]

Im not going to do that at Mission Bay and I'm still 2 feet too tall if only an X can pass under. These bridge problems are really making me mad because it's happening more and more as more places put ramps behind bridges. I can't get under the Queensway in Long Beach so now there is no place to launch in Long Beach anymore either. Few places are trailer sailor friendly anymore. makes me really mad.

Why not just dip the mast to get under the bridge, if necessary?



You can leave the boom and main sail on it, since the mast only has to go back a little to clear the obstruction, unlike in the marketing photo where it's bare and all the way back. If using good baby stays, with someone else at the helm, I wouldn't hesitate to do that unless it was very rough out. But even then, I'd lay it in the mast crutch (unpin the boom temporarily) then stand it back up. Only connection is the forestay, and that's easy to make (on my boat) when I over tighten the MRS to make the pin. I often lay it down for transport, and stand it back up when I get back, while the boat is in the water.

Just sayin'.

[BOAT]

My wife totally freeeks out at the thought of un-pinning the forestay on the water - she goes into cold sweats if I just talk about it because she has seen me drop the pin a couple of times in the parking lot. She is afraid we will get stuck on the water with no pin for the forestay. It is really hard to pin the forestay - even in the parking lot I need to crank the MRS very tight and push on the furling drum while she puts in the pin from below.

Doing that with the sails on the mast seems like a dangerous operation.

I dunno, must admit - that's one I have never tried before - i suppose if you guys do it all the time I am willing to try it but me myself I have never stepped the mast on ANY boat with the sails still on the mast. Don't know anyone that has ever done it either - so I have no frame of reference.

[Tomfoolery]

Two points:

1) Buy extra pins. You should have them anyway. They're standard pins, but BWY has extra-extra long ones with a giant head, which makes it easy to handle when laying on your stomach on the deck to install it. Put the spinnaker halyard on the bow rail as a backup, and if you snug it with the MRS system over-tight, you can put a little extra on it.

2) Sails - you're not lowering the mast all the way to gain a couple of feet of headroom. You're just backing it off a little. To get the first foot of headroom reduction, and assuming a 4 degree starting rake (26X spec), it needs to tilt an additional 11.5 degrees back. The next foot of height reduction requires 6.4 deg., and the next 5 deg. A total of 31 degrees for a 5 ft drop in mast height.

The MRS load is pretty light at 31 degrees from upright, even with the boom on it. It doesn't get heavy until you get pretty far back, as trigonometry tends to do to things like this. And you can always unpin the boom and lay it on the deck.

My mast doesn't even like to come back by itself with my 5-part ball-bearing block MRS until it's 5 or 10 degrees back. And as I said, I just crank on the MRS, make the pin, and let 'er loose. Perfect adjustment on the stay and shrouds. But my MRS uses the spinnaker halyard, so it's pulling the top of the mast forward, and not pulling from down low, which tends to bend the mast forward in the middle, pulling the top back a little. That's where I think some spin halyard tension, or a 4-part block and fall (vang?) on a loop around the bottom of the furled jib to help pull the clevis to the stem fitting, would help.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't know any better, so I do stuff like that. I actually make a living doing stuff most people know better than to do.

Oh, and here's a quick diagram of the mast being tilted back, for reference.

[BOAT]

Two points:

1) Buy extra pins. You should have them anyway. They're standard pins, but BWY has extra-extra long ones with a giant head, which makes it easy to handle when laying on your stomach on the deck to install it. Put the spinnaker halyard on the bow rail as a backup, and if you snug it with the MRS system over-tight, you can put a little extra on it.

2) Sails - you're not lowering the mast all the way to gain a couple of feet of headroom. You're just backing it off a little. To get the first foot of headroom reduction, and assuming a 4 degree starting rake (26X spec), it needs to tilt an additional 11.5 degrees back. The next foot of height reduction requires 6.4 deg., and the next 5 deg. A total of 31 degrees for a 5 ft drop in mast height.

The MRS load is pretty light at 31 degrees from upright, even with the boom on it. It doesn't get heavy until you get pretty far back, as trigonometry tends to do to things like this. And you can always unpin the boom and lay it on the deck.

My mast doesn't even like to come back by itself with my 5-part ball-bearing block MRS until it's 5 or 10 degrees back. And as I said, I just crank on the MRS, make the pin, and let 'er loose. Perfect adjustment on the stay and shrouds. But my MRS uses the spinnaker halyard, so it's pulling the top of the mast forward, and not pulling from down low, which tends to bend the mast forward in the middle, pulling the top back a little. That's where I think some spin halyard tension, or a 4-part block and fall (vang?) on a loop around the bottom of the furled jib to help pull the clevis to the stem fitting, would help.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't know any better, so I do stuff like that. I actually make a living doing stuff most people know better than to do.

Oh, and here's a quick diagram of the mast being tilted back, for reference.

This is all great for an X boat but I don't have an X boat - I have an M boat so the mast is taller on the water. Your showing the mast as 28 feet long?? That's ain't gonna work - you ever see a M boat on the trailer? The mast goes all the way out to the end of the boaw pulpit and hangs out over 4 feet off the stern!! That alone on a 26 foot boat means just the mast alone is at least over 30 feet! The M sits high in the water too. The M rig is also a LOT tighter than the X rig. What is the angle I need to back off the mast on an M boat to get under a 32 foot bridge? (32 feet is really the actual height of most of these bridges).

Also what is the load on the rig at that angle you come up with to get under a 32 foot bridge? Maybe if it pencils out I can convince the wife - but so far I still have not got any first hand experience from any M boat owners and this kind of stuff - but it is something I really want to explore because there are a LOT more ramps available to sailboats around So Cal if your willing the step a mast while underway. It's not something we even did in the old days - it was considered "dangerous".

[Tomfoolery]

This is all great for an X boat but I don't have an X boat - I have an M boat so the mast is taller on the water. Your showing the mast as 28 feet long?? That's ain't gonna work - you ever see a M boat on the trailer? The mast goes all the way out to the end of the boaw pulpit and hangs out over 4 feet off the stern!! That alone on a 26 foot boat means just the mast alone is at least over 30 feet! The M sits high in the water too. The M rig is also a LOT tighter than the X rig. What is the angle I need to back off the mast on an M boat to get under a 32 foot bridge? (32 feet is really the actual height of most of these bridges).

Here's another diagram, this time with the 30 ft mast. The deck is 5 ft above the waterline, like the , per MacGregor's published specs., and I pulled the angles from the vertical (with the mast shown at 2 deg), for convenience.



http://www.macgregor26.com/specificatio ... ations.htm

Also what is the load on the rig at that angle you come up with to get under a 32 foot bridge?

Haven't explored that, but it will be less than when the mast is just starting to come up off the crutch, even if you have the boom pinned to it. By inspection.

Maybe if it pencils out I can convince the wife - but so far I still have not got any first hand experience from any M boat owners and this kind of stuff - but it is something I really want to explore because there are a LOT more ramps available to sailboats around So Cal if your willing the step a mast while underway. It's not something we even did in the old days - it was considered "dangerous".

Probably because nobody had baby stays in the old days. I know my Aquarius didn't. And I wouldn't want to do this on the water without them, as I had enough trouble raising the mast on that boat without help when nice and stable on the trailer. I worked out some geometry to make my own, but never did as I moved up to a keel boat that needed a crane to unstep the mast.

If the baby stays are not up to the task in moving water, consider putting one halyard to each rail on the coaming, with the mast in the partially lowered position (assuming rigging at the ramp), to snub out side-to-side sway of the mast more effectively than the baby stays. Slacken them in calm water before pulling the mast back up. Or just pay a little out on each as the mast goes up. It's only going up less than 30 degrees to get to its working position from a 31 ft clearance, and once it's something like 10 or 15 degrees from upright, the side stays snub out any sway pretty effectively, at least in my experience.

[Tomfoolery]

Harder to see, but easier to print.



As with any internet engineering, use at your own risk, and there's no guarantee I or my sketches are right.

[BOAT]

Tom,

Your the best at this stuff - I think your drawing is accurate. This still leaves a lot of us M owners in Southern California in a quandary:

The original thread starter A1-boss has only posted 17 times and he is looking for help. I feel obligated to help a new person on the site, so in light of his original question i think what I would like to do is create an entirely new thread starting with your picture and the heading "ALL HANDS" to see if we can get everyone that has ever launched at these ramps to tell their stories.

That is what I think the original poster (an myself for that fact) want to know - Have they actually gotten under the bridges.

It's not just the Mission Bay Bridge, but there are quite a few others around that have many of us stumped. I think we should call out to the entire site to see who has braved these bridges already.

I was really glad to see seadog jump in to help as he as only posted 3 times and that means he is also trying to help. bobflshmn also leaped to life here - so that tells me there may be many other Southern Cal sailors out there that can help us. Most of the guys in So Cal are very shy about responding and I sure would like to encourage them to talk to you guys more.