Honda BF50 ignition modification for MO power.

[Greg]

1960-1963 Pontiac Tempest had a curved driveshaft and tranaxle developed from the Corvair. Most had a 195 cu in four cylinder engine actually the right bank of the 389 V-8. Approximately one percent had the optional V-8.

Pontiacs practically ruled racing in the US in the early 60's with the Super Duty engines. In 1962 you could factory order a full size Pontiac race ready with Super Duty engine, no body insulation, aluminum fenders and hood. Dealer or owner added cast aluminum headers, close ratio 4-speed etc could then be purchased from the dealer. Folks said these sounded like a metal drum coming down the road.

The 421 SD was factory rated at 373hp, but an independent engine tester put the engine on a dynomometer and got a reading of 465hp at 5600 rpm. All this before the GTO.

The OHC 6 cylinder was the Sprint engine with either 2 or 4 bbl. I don't have the reference in front of me, but I seem to remember it was intended to run against the 6 cylinders of Brittan and Europe in European road racing circuits.

I have a 1967 Pontiac Lemans convertible in the garage awaiting restoration. It originally had the 6 cylinder Sprint . I have a 455 for it.

Greg

[Chip Hindes]

Frank: Sure, but the best looking of all of them was the TR-4 (better than the TR-3, IMO).

The MGB was a better/ faster car than the MGA (I owned an MGA), which was in turn a better car than any of the the TC/TD/TF, but the B didn't have half the class of the A, and the T series was the best.

The blue one appears to be an Austin Healy 3000. I agree, very nice car. Heck, I think the Bugeye Sprite was a great car. 850ccs, or was it a whopping 1000? Phffftttt on the later Sprite/MG Midget, though I believe the latter was 1100cc and also a better car.

Wasn't the Jensen Healy a V8 contemporary to the TR8?

[Frank C]

Yep,, my best friend in High School had a TR-4A-IRS, red of course. What a great looking car! And yep, the Healy 3000 was remarkable. Yep again, Jensen Healy & Triumph Stag, Rover, others. I think Leyland produced numerous engine incarnations from the Buick 60-degree V-8. I suppose this thread should be retitled:
Honda Hop-up & Engine Envy.

Or, maybe Heath would make a new Forum for Gray-Haired Nostalgia. Then I'd ask to move-in the thread about sailing music too?

215 Engine
In 1961, Olds (and Buick and Pontiac, referred to collectively as "The BOP Cars") came out with their new small cars (Olds F-85, Pontiac Tempest, Buick Special). . . . Available was a new, all aluminum V-8, displacing 215 cubic inches. This engine was standard in the Buick and Olds, optional in the Pontiac.

Olds and Buick used it to build the conventional front engine/rear drive Cutlass (Jetfire) and Skylark models. Chevy used this same (unibody) shell to create the Corvair, with rear engine, transaxle, and air cooling. Pontiac took the middle ground with the Tempest, mounting the engine in the front but using the Corvair transaxle ... Only Olds had the turbo (Jetfire) available.

The 215 weighs only 20 lbs more than the Vega 4 cylinder, ... is an awsome engine for its size and weight. A full-up 4bbl version weighs only 305 lbs wet. Parts are available, ... to bore and stroke it to 5.0 liters!

Jetfire Engine
In 1961, the F-85 had a 155 HP version of the 215 ci. engine, and ... later years saw increases - up to 200 hp ...

In 1962, Olds, along with AiResearch, introduced a 'turbocharged' (called Fluid Injection) version of this engine, which put "Turbo Rocket Fluid" ( distilled water, methyl alcohol) into the carb. Along with a 10.25:1 compression ratio, yielded 0-60 in 8.5 seconds (with the manual tranny).

I was amazed today to waste more than a couple of hours on the links, here on a sailing page, by Kevin and Greg. I'd never have known what remarkable GM innovation preceded my little Triumph mini-V8. BTW, my ex had the hottest '85 Mazda RX-7 (GSL-SE) that was truly a rotary rocket. But it only ran neck-n-neck with the TR-8.

The problems w/ TR-8 are basically only two: first, the Lucas ignition is ... well, it's notoriously Lucas, and second, the fuel tank filler cap resides down inside a body cavity on the rear deck, perfectly placed to collect rainwater and "seep" same directly into the fuel tank. Hence, said tank becomes rusty and corrosion polluted. Of course I was lucky to find a replacement tank in pretty good condition, but it resides above the rear axle .... check that ... replacement tank resides on a bench.
The corroded original tank still resides above the rear axle!

I have one other toy in that warehouse that I simply cannot part with, even though the TR-8 is still the preferred driver. But, it would deserve a different thread in that new heading!

[Robert]

Question: Are DirectHits legal to use on street vehicles in California?
Answer: Yes. DirectHits meets California Air Resources Board (CARB), OBDII standards.

http://www.off-road.com/products/review ... /hits.html
We ran'em on the road, We ran'em off the road. We ran'em in over 110 deg. F, we ran'em down to 40 deg. F. We ran'em on 4, 6, and 8 cylinder engines, we ran'em on both stock and high performance engines. We ran'em on the highway, through towns, and cities. We ran'em fast, and cruised'em slow. Short of running 'em in below freezing temps (not usually found in AZ in mid-late summer), theres not a lot that we missed. "Direct Hits" exceeded our expectations by a wide margin. Measurably better performance on 3 completely different vehicles, in a wide variety of driving conditions. The bottom line is that they work. There's no scam here. There's sound science, solid engineering, and a product that delivers what it promises.

http://www.internetautoguide.com/auto-news/25-int/6892/
Robby Unser commented that "the Unsers have always been attracted to automotive performance and that is why I am so captivated by DirectHits. When I saw an immediate 10.5% improvement in horsepower on a stock 2004 Chevy Avalanche just by installing DirectHits, I was convinced. After years of working with the same old sparkplugs in my racecars, I'm proud to be part of a new evolution in ignition performance!"

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2002 ... 51806.html
A novel spark plug could be all that is needed for sport utility vehicles (SUV) to meet President Bush's challenge to improve fuel economy.

http://static.highbeam.com/a/autopartsr ... index.html
A sophisticated new spark plug called DirectHits developed by Combustion Technology Products Corp. (CTPC), with technical assistance from Sandia National Laboratories, increases the power of the spark by 10,000 times.

Soon to be built into the sparkplug itself:
http://www.autotechdaily.com/pdfs/T01-06-03.pdf
Combustion Technology Products Corp. plans to introduce a less expensive one-piece version of its "DirectHits" sparkplug later this year. The Apopka, Fla.-based company says the current two-piece system improved fuel economy an average of 18%, or 3 mpg, during recent tests on several SUVs.

[kmclemore]

Frank: Sure, but the best looking of all of them was the TR-4 (better than the TR-3, IMO).

Actually, I kinda like the car that the Triumph "TR" engine was originally put into...

That's our 1949 Triumph Renown - uses the same motor as the TR-2, 3 & 4, a 'Standard-Vanguard' 2088cc 4-cylinder... it's got a *very* long stroke and *buckets* of torque - you can pull out tree stumps in first gear! Like all the TR's, you can't rev them much, but you never have to! Interestingly, Ferguson Tractor also used that same motor in its venerable 'TO' model tractors.

Heck, I think the Bugeye Sprite was a great car. 850ccs, or was it a whopping 1000? Phffftttt on the later Sprite/MG Midget, though I believe the latter was 1100cc and also a better car.

Austin-Healey Sprites originally came with 948cc Austin (later called "BMC") A-Series motors - one of the most *excellent* motors ever produced, IMHO - much like the Chevy 'small block' it was modified and updated over the years but they were virtually bullet-proof in all their incarnations. These engines found their way into literally hundreds of different models of British cars, from the famous Austin Mini Coopers and Morris Minors to obsure race cars like Turners and Elvas (actually, the racing heritage of this engine is endless - they're still used very competitively today!).

A-H Sprites - same thing as an MG Midget, BTW - were increased over the years from 948 to 1100 and finally to 1275cc. Later MG Midgets used the Triumph Spitfire 1500cc engine but it was an utter PoS. [btw, if you're looking carefully at the pictures I posted earlier in this thread you'll see a BMC A-Series motor that I'm currently rebuilding in my shop - you can see the fresh crank, block and some of the removed pistons/rods... it's for our Morris Minor, and will eventually be fitted with a vintage Judson Supercharger.]

Wasn't the Jensen Healy a V8 contemporary to the TR8?

Actually, no, the Jensen-Healey had the Lotus 907 slant 4-cylinder DOHC in it.. and it was absolute rubbish. I was working for Lotus at the time - JH was shopping for a motor for their new car and came to Lotus because the Vauxall engine they were going to use wouldn't pass U.S. emissions... well, we had this (brand) new motor but had never given it *any* real long-trial testing... however they *really* liked it and Lotus needed the so we sold them a boat-load of them... hey, we figured they could be our long-trial testers, and it wouldn't cost us a farthing! And tested they were - the warranty issues with that motor were endless!! But in the end they finally sorted all the problems (Lotus helped them a bit) and when it was finally fully sorted the motor ultimately got put into the new Lotus Esprit - all nicely tested and (relatively) trouble-free, with no cost to Lotus' reputation whatsoever! A nasty story, but it's all true. That deal sunk Jensen.... between the engine difficulties and the (horrible) rusting problems, the Jensen-Healey's reputation was doomed, and they only lasted a few years before going belly-up. A sad end to Donald Healey's otherwise flawless legacy.

[Frank C]

Very nice, Kevin, and I'll be pleased to "stand corrected" on Healey by a native son.
I think I'd like to browse thru your garages ...

Just wondering - have they found the gene, yet,
that induces car nuts to buy Macs?

[cbhinkel]

FWIW-I'm an Olds guy at heart as well. One of my project vehicles was a Hurst/Olds where I had the shortblock rebuilt/upgraded/blueprinted, and I built the engine and put it back into the car from there. It ran high 12s with slicks and was fast as anything. I had a late night frolic with a 1st gen Viper (in a very desolated area) with this car and made him eat his humble pie.

Frank, nice TR8! I've been wanting one of those for about 15 years now. However, on the car I would possibly get, I would immediately dump the stock induction system and put an Edlebrock combo on there. Unfortunately, CARB laws wouldn't let me do that for another 3-6 years as they just recently raised the emission cut-off point to 1975 vehicles and older.

-Chris

[Frank C]

Sorry to have left the wrong impression, but that gold TR-8 is not mine. Mine is a decent driver, BRG in color, with only 60,000 miles, but it's not so pretty as that one.

As I mentioned, the fuel tank corroded because the filler cap leaks water into the tank. I'm pretty sure the factory Bosch-Lucas induction was well protected by the filters, but I still need to replace that tank which requires removal of the rear drive member. The fuel injection system never gave a hint of trouble. Another problem was the Lucas ignition system, with intermittant dead-faults due to heat. That's a simple fix ... completely replace the distributor & ignition system with a solid state system.

The final problem was an unwitting error by my son and nephew, then pretty young & impetuous. While trying to jump start its dead battery, they reversed the pos/neg cables - frying the black box (in 1980, the only way a car could qualify for CARB was with a computerized fuel/ignition system). I think I found a guy who supposedly rebuilt the computer ... never was able to see if his handy work was successful - he charged $800 as I recall.

In final analysis, it was a terrific car, fast, comfortable, and still with great handling. But it suffered mightily when I found a different, top-down ride ... still with wind in the hair, but much slower ... 26 feet in length ...

[kmclemore]

Very nice, Kevin, and I'll be pleased to "stand corrected" on Healey by a native son.
I think I'd like to browse thru your garages ...

Feel free to browse, Frank... if you're ever in the area you're certainly welcome. Fellow Mac owners are always welcome here at our house, even more so if they're also LBC* enthusiasts!

Over the past year we've had visits from "Tony Houk", "Daves_knot_here", and "NiceAft" - and BTW, they are all really great guys, too. Dave visited when he was in town on business - time limits prevented us going out on the boat, but we had a nice dinner here at the house (with my thanks to the Admirial!). NiceAft is also a great guy and lives only a couple of miles away - he's got a shiny new "M"... ask him about his boat's name sometime!

I must say, though, that Tony Houk in particular was extremely helpful in getting me started on my Mac... he even helped me step the mast for the first time... he's a really superb guy and he knows these Mac's very well indeed.... and he's also a 'car nut'... I just wanna see that '39 Pontiac of his out on the road someday! It's going to be a rare little beauty when it's done!

And Frank, you'd love my workshop - wall-to-wall British parts - it's like walking into a 1970's British Leyland dealer's parts room... Lucas, Smiths, Girling, Quinton Hazell, Borg & Beck, you name it. Way back in 1979 I aquired the entire stock from a dealer that was going out of business... and the bits have come in mighty handy over the years in maintaining and restoring my cars. However, ever since I got all those Lucas parts in there I can't seem to get the overhead lighting to work.... go figure...



*LBC = Little British Car

[ROAD Soldier]

Comming from a person who has been a Aircraft, Auto, and everthing in between my whole life. What Robert is saying maybe possible. Things with spark plugs that truely do add miliege are.
1. Increasing spark plug gap- you can do this by .004" and do nothing else if you drive like an old lady so you dont get spark plug to hot and cause detonation.

2. Go to a hotter burning plug usually one step hotter, only but you have to change them out more frequently and do top end less preferable stay in the below 3000 rpm range.

3. Multi-Sparker which is awesome on old carberated engines like a 440 I had in a Dodge Power Wagon which went from 7 to 12mpg in city and 1mpg more on highway. These also operate best below 3000rpms but dont effect anything above that so you dont have to drive like an old lady.

So in conclusion if direct spark plugs burn hotter below 3000 rpms which I dont know because I have never used them I could see a 10% increase in MPG but dought it would do anything to top end.

[Pacamac-uk]

Not quite. You need to scan your owners manual and send it to Heath so he can post it on the Manuals Page

Hey, Moe... Lemme see if I can give these 'short boat' guys a hand in becoming legit...

The Mac 19 manual is already 'on-line' here.. does that count?

(Just kidding about the 'short' stuff, of course... we're very glad to have you guys here!!)

Just sent my manual to the webmaster. Can't remember where I found it but it can now be added to this site.

[Robert]

DirectHits cause the spark energy to more efficiently get to the spark plug, so there is a bigger spark.
..
DirectHits cause the spark to happen faster, a short duration very intense spark. The fuel ignites quicker and the engine has less tendency to pre-ignition allowing the engine computer to advance the timing a bit more before backing off when the knock sensors kicks in.
..
The directhits effect is a smoother engine and more power especially at higher RPMs. The DirectHits don't help as much at light loads and lower RPMs. Even if there were little powe gain the smoothness gain and quicker response is enough to justify.
..
They have a product now that has the directhits technology built into the spark plug Pulstar or something with a name like that.
..
It would be great is someone with a Honda BF50 and someone with a Tohatsu 50 2 stroke would test these.

[doddsy]

FAO Chris Hinkel

I know this is an old thread, im unble to PM you, but i am really interested in how youo tweak the ignition timing on a BF50

I have a BF50A (2001) All carb. Can it be done?

Any chance you can PM me with info? Afew more ponies out of my 50 would be great.

Did yours detonate like the nay sayer said ??

Cheers

Doddsy

[Don T]

Hey...I had one of those TP oil filters. Bought it at the swap meet...where all good auto improvements are sold. IIRC I bought a bottle of some oil additive from a guy with a trailer mounted engine. He drained out the oil and it kept running...due to the molecular coating left behind by the additive!

Yeah, JB Engine Additive (Justice Brothers??)

[Catigale]

FAO Chris Hinkel

I know this is an old thread, im unble to PM you, but i am really interested in how youo tweak the ignition timing on a BF50

I have a BF50A (2001) All carb. Can it be done?

Any chance you can PM me with info? Afew more ponies out of my 50 would be great.

Did yours detonate like the nay sayer said ??

Cheers

Doddsy

Ancient thread alert. Chris hasn't been active here since 2006, FYI