bimini

[whgoffrn]

like to know if anyone is interested in a bimini crossing.... im new to sailing....but been getting much practice in the last 6 months ....been itching to make the crossing but of course gulf stream has me a little intimidated..... aiming for the first week or so in june or if anyone has any info on where to find the flotilla listings doing the crossing that would be helpful

[Sumner]

I hate to sound negative but if you don't feel you can cross on your own then maybe think about holding off until you do. It is really hard for two or more boats to actually all travel at the same speed and it is even harder to actually help someone if there boat becomes disabled other than getting them off if you can.

If you are like most, myself included, you will probably leave in the middle of the night and at night it is really going to be hard to keep a visual on someone else. I'd also invest in an AIS capable radio if you don't have one. It can be a big help. Also invest in tow insurance...

http://www.boatus.com/towing/

... saved me from a big problem coming back when the rudder bracket broke 6-7 miles off of Florida and earlier in the day it would of really been big.



Here is a link to my crossing going east...

http://1fatgmc.com/boat/mac-1/2015%20Ba ... age-1.html

Good luck and enjoy your boat,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[whgoffrn]

honestly my plan would be to start early morning motoring all the way across (safety 1st) storms are the biggest challenge in june so my plan would be to haul ass get across as fast as possible and sail once I get there... and I understand that most boats not sailing the same speed its just one more precaution if I was the slowest boat id leave first so if I did break down or catch fire?? or whatever could happen hopefully id have someone coming up behind me soon....I already have a hypalon zodiac good gps vhf handheld and towboat us towing package with a 35lb mantus anchor and a 13lb mantus anchor and slew of other preparations...and before id go id have sat phone epirb and probably a dozen other things to help me sleep at peace the week before...but of course safety in numbers would be helpful also.... ocean can be a scary place but its not as scary if theres a few other boats within flaregun range of you

[Russ]

im new to sailing....but been getting much practice in the last 6 months ....been itching to make the crossing but of course gulf stream has me a little intimidated.

This part has me worried.
This is not the place to cut teeth.

Offshore boating is serious stuff, especially in a tiny boat like the Mac. There are many who have done it, however it takes lots of planning and experience.

Although I see Sumner's point about keeping a group together, I have cruised often with a group. There were times when the group offered the disabled boat mechanical expertise and spare parts to keep going. He is right that it slows the group down to the slowest boat. Other members of the group can also provide local experience and knowledge. I wouldn't write off joining a group for the crossing, however the Mac X can motor faster than keelboats.

Keep the dream, but get more experience and read read read everything, including Sumner's blog and Chinook's blog here http://chinook.cecka.us/

--Russ

[dlandersson]

Ditto - the downside is death for everyone in the boat - get a bit more experience locally first.

im new to sailing....but been getting much practice in the last 6 months ....been itching to make the crossing but of course gulf stream has me a little intimidated.

This part has me worried.
This is not the place to cut teeth.

Offshore boating is serious stuff, especially in a tiny boat like the Mac. There are many who have done it, however it takes lots of planning and experience.

Although I see Sumner's point about keeping a group together, I have cruised often with a group. There were times when the group offered the disabled boat mechanical expertise and spare parts to keep going. He is right that it slows the group down to the slowest boat. Other members of the group can also provide local experience and knowledge. I wouldn't write off joining a group for the crossing, however the Mac X can motor faster than keelboats.

Keep the dream, but get more experience and read read read everything, including Sumner's blog and Chinook's blog here http://chinook.cecka.us/

--Russ

[whgoffrn]

Fair enough..... I can't help but wonder how much experience is enough experience to cross the 50 miles under all motor approx 15kts take approx 4 hours with a 15hp new kicker sat phone opencpn navionics true chartplotter gps epirb spare stays 35lb mantus anchor 20feet of chain sea anchor 2 x 150ft 1/2 anchor rope and one year of experience sailing the ICW in central Florida with sketchy violent storms....I'm not saying my mind is made up but I would have thought this would constitute enough experience to motor 50 miles (in a group) especially considering I've had several trials in ICW sailing 25-30 miles .... If seas are 1-3 is a years experience not considered enough to motor 50 miles with an extensive list of safety supplies?

[whgoffrn]

In the last 6 months I have probably sailed 15x now learned some lessons bent some spreaders snapped sheet lines and done some learning ...so within next 6 months I would assume I'd have twice that level of experience is that not enough to motor 50 miles in 1-3s @9s especially if in a group? Opinions welcome

[Sumner]

Let me be clear that I have no problem with people traveling in groups and that is going to add some safety to the situation but if the weather turns, even a squall happens you can get separated and/or conditions get to where you might not be able to easily give or receive help.

whgoffrn crossing the Gulf Stream isn't like crossing lots of other stretches of 50 miles of open water. Even if you travel hundreds of miles past Bimini it is the most technical/difficult part of the trip. I had a pretty uneventful crossing to Bimini but really lucked into perfect conditions going and waited over a week on the return to get into a window where it would be good and yet the return was a lot more challenging than the trip across.

People sometimes in boats a lot larger than ours wait days and even weeks to make the crossing. Summer with less winds would mitigate some of that but squalls increase in the summer months and can come up quickly. Once over you then also have to have a weather window to return. Even larger sailboats can't travel at the speeds you want to do and if the ocean isn't basically flat you aren't probably going to travel at anything above hull speed (6-7 kts).

I feel it is going to be hard for you to find a group of power Macs that all have the same time frame to make the crossing over and back. Macgregor groups have made the crossing before and also out to the Dry Tortugas but they couldn't cross at the speeds you envision since a number of them were S and D's. They also had some problems related to storms, people not prepared, and being able to stay together. You might still be able to find some of those trip reports here....

http://www.conchcruisers.net/

Also Bimini is part of the Bahamas but the real Bahamas with the good sailing waters and anchorages start about 100 miles past them. Bimini and the couple islands near it don't offer a lot of protected anchorages so you might end up in a slip at Bimini. It is going to cost you $150 also for the entry fee. Make sure you have papers. I did not like getting in and out of Bimini. I had an easy crossing but things got real rough at the entry into Alice Town and I hunted around a little finding a marina due to having the wrong name for what I was looking for.

I've heard that some go over to the islands south of Bimini and never go ashore so don't pay an entry fee. These are power boat people that can power over in a couple hours or less and back in the same day.

Maybe a pre-run would be go out in the stream 10-15 miles one day and then return and get a feel for it. Keep looking for your group but feel you can do it alone with no problem ,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Russ]

In your case a group would help. Others with experience would know when to say, "we're not going today".
As I see it, you will stand out of the pack. Other sailboats can't make it in 4 hours. So that leaves powerboats. They may not like to slow down for you.
Also, the trip is 2 ways. You have to come back eventually. Those that do this have time to wait it out for a week or more if necessary. Some of that wait could be in bad conditions.

I don't know what experience you have. The fact that you are concerned about the gulf stream gives me great pause. Reading Sumner's blog you can see how currents can be important for crossings.
Probably the best experience to prepare you is with extreme conditions: Storms, waves, motor failures, winds. Also knowing what to do when things go wrong, anchor drags etc.
You have plenty of time between now and June to get both experience and research the trip. It's doable, just do your homework. Talk to others who have done it. Prepare your boat. Learn about spare parts, install precautions like fuel filters/water separators, fuel capacities and reserve.

It's a fine goal to shoot for and doable. Read and learn from those who have done it. Just be prepared and although a group may help, they might not be able to tow you 25 miles if necessary.

I have a good friend who is very experienced who spent last year cruising the Caribbean. On his return to Florida he hit a tiny reef/island and holed his boat. His chartplotter wasn't zoomed in and it didn't show. The Coast Guard had to rescue him.



Coast Guard helicopter view

[dlandersson]

Nice points. I knew fog was bad but I really didn't know HOW bad until I was caught in it. Same for a squall.

Probably the best experience to prepare you is with extreme conditions: Storms, waves, motor failures, winds. Also knowing what to do when things go wrong, anchor drags etc.

[whgoffrn]

I have some experience under my belt with mishaps... Misjudging how much feul you burn In high winds with ballast in and big waves and how much fun it is when the bow is no longer into the waves as you are trying to prime the engine to get it started to put the bow into the waves.. Same with snagged furler lines not being able to roll in the jib in high winds. Accidents happen things break the unimaginable happens usually during a storm. I do understand that and have a few mishaps already under my belt. Primarily I've learned how well these radar apps work and how much time you have to prepare before the big red blob of fury catches up to you and decided if you should run or face into it prepare and buckle in..... I sailed every other weekend in eastern Florida this summer so trust me when I say ...storms I know quite well.... Wouldnt have spent that much money on 35lb mantus anchor had I not gotten a scare the week before .... My biggest challenge has been how to get that heavy ass anchor off the front of the boat when its rocking side to side beam to the waves.... I use the cheap pvc pipe method on the bow for now which is quite difficult to get it out of when the time comes it needs to be used .... But just as with that challenge I think a person has to be able to use common sense to mentally prepare for "what ifs" ....maybe I'm wrong but in my limited experience I've always noticed if u can get it anchored pointing into the wind and waves that's 99% of the danger avoided..... Let's pretend I do decided to cross I'd never leave unless it says anything less than 1-3 ....and I doubt they are every this horribly off to forecast 1-3 and it be 9-12 but if so and you're in a Mac with a sea anchor off the bow.... And just waiting it out are u not relatively safe? Ole roger mcgregor was sailing his in 18ft waves lol I should be safe sea anchored in shtf scenario right ?

(Side subject any one have any mods or ideas for an easier way to store and deploy a 35lb mantus /rocna style anchor off the bow also its ripped the bow light off numerous times when anchored ...any suggestions would be appreciated)

[C Buchs]

(Side subject any one have any mods or ideas for an easier way to store and deploy a 35lb mantus /rocna style anchor off the bow also its ripped the bow light off numerous times when anchored ...any suggestions would be appreciated)

I'd move the lights like on this:


Jeff

[Sumner]

... I've always noticed if u can get it anchored pointing into the wind and waves that's 99% of the danger avoided..... Let's pretend I do decided to cross I'd never leave unless it says anything less than 1-3 ....and I doubt they are every this horribly off to forecast 1-3 and it be 9-12 but if so and you're in a Mac with a sea anchor off the bow.... And just waiting it out are u not relatively safe?...

Here is a good read on wave heights related to forecasted wave heights...

http://www.mxak.org/weather/pdfs/waves.pdf

It basically says that if there are 1-3 foot waves forecasted then you should expect to encounter a wave spectrum with
many waves between 1 and 3 feet along with a small percentage of waves up to 5 feet and some possibly as large as
6 feet. I think most of us tend to overestimate the height of waves we encounter. If you are in true 5-6 foot waves and they are running at a close interval of say 5-6 seconds between crests they will be significant in our boats. The interval can be a big deal. Spread the interval of a 5-6 foot wave out to 10-12 seconds and it seems like not near the wave.

Coming back across I was in swells deep enough I couldn't see out of them sitting in the cockpit in the troughs. It wasn't bad as the time crest to crest was a lot but it slowed the boat down climbing up and down on them and for a good part of the way they were coming in from two directions and the boat would roll off when two of them collided under the boat. The wind wasn't good for sailing and I motored the last leg from West End back to Port St. Lucie and left there about 1:30 am and got to the Florida coast about 4 pm, a long day and then the rudder bracket broke and the day got a lot longer. I would of been a lot better off with someone else in the boat and not having to single hand that whole way. I made about 5 knots in the conditions and don't think an X or M could of motored a whole lot faster in them.

You need to really know the mechanics of dealing with the Gulf Stream current crossing. Just point your boat at the destination and you will spend a long time getting there. Read the following and you can see the different options ...

http://capkool.tripod.com/rhumb.html

As others have said you still have plenty of time to get more experience. Go out in the stream and back. Go to the keys and cross Florida Bay. No current to deal with there but it will get you use to being out of sight of land. Get yourself ready so you can go when the time is right and not on someone else's schedule . If you study this and use the boat more there is no need to try and cross in a group. People do it all the time. Just study and know the wind directions to avoid and you will be fine.

......(Side subject any one have any mods or ideas for an easier way to store and deploy a 35lb mantus /rocna style anchor off the bow also its ripped the bow light off numerous times when anchored ...any suggestions would be appreciated)

Get a bow roller and ...



... a means to let the road out quickly and retrieve it quickly. The above works great and I've used it many, many times.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... ng-18.html

I like good anchor gear but going to a 35 lb. might of been more than you really needed and maybe has become a hindrance in being able to anchor quickly. I've never drug with the 25 lb. Supreme and only once a few feet when using the 22 lb. claw. The anchor won't do anything crossing but can be a confidence builder once on anchor in heavy wind ,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Russ]

Another suggestion. Listen to whatever Sumner says carefully. I've learned that he is an expert sailor and expert researcher. And now he also has experience in the places you wish to go.

I'd read his posts and take in every word.

--Russ

[Sumner]

.... I've learned that he is an expert sailor...--Russ

Thanks but I'd take the above with a grain of salt. Let's say I can now get most places under sail without using the motor much ,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links