Fresh water storage in sausage style tubes in ballast tank

[Flightfollowing]

It's pvc, thus the use of pvc cement which does seem to work pretty well. I tried "welding" it with m e k solvent which also worked pretty well, but I have not tried heat, I'll check that out.
One issue is a brass inlet tube will not bond with the pvc cement, and hose clamps may not quite seal the oversize hose to the brass as reliably as I would like. I'm trying pvc pipe bonded and hose clamped to the oversize tube now.

[Russ]

I've dealt with PVC piping years ago. I recall it required several steps. One to "etch" the PVC and another to "bond" it. Maybe that's how you need to bond this stuff.

If it uses similar PVC properties as pipe, you may need to employ some techniques plumbers use for fittings. I'm no plumber, but maybe you could get ideas from one.

[Flightfollowing]

I completely botched the math. A 3" diameter discharge hose has a radius of 1.5" and holds a bit over a third of a gallon of liquid per foot, not 1.5 gal per foot. This makes a big difference in usable volume, and one needs to read "6 inch discharge tube" instead of the 3" to get the same volume. However, based upon the testing I have done so far, 6" discharge tube is feasible, or smaller tube with less volume could also work, but if one is going to go through the trouble of making this set up, you may as well get decent water storage out of it.
I did succeed in sealing the ends and affixing undersized fittings to the discharge tube. I also fish taped cord from vent hole to the gate valve in my 2006 26M, and I also partially pulled 3" discharge tube about 3 feet into the ballast tank of the boat. The 3 feet of hose I pulled through was getting a bit frictionny and I stopped before I pulled the 4 foot length all the way into the ballast tank, just to make sure I could easily get it out.
Here is the vent hole tether, I found a 1" vent plug with a tie off ring at the bottom.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/357 ... G_5322.JPG

Here is the 4 foot test section of discharge hose
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/357 ... G_5331.JPG

And here is the test discharge hose protruding from the ballast valve
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/357 ... G_5323.JPG

The result of pulling the hose into the ballast tank is yet undetermined, might or might not have too much friction. But I think I would pull through an empty sleeve of slightly larger abrasion sleeve to leave in the starboard ballast channel to make retrieval easier and to protect from fiberglass shards.
http://www.hosecraftusa.com/accessory/Abrasion_Sleeves

and an example of the discharge hose:
http://www.hosecraftusa.com/model/UD1_P ... harge_Hose

I measured a couple of hose length options for the 26M, if the hose were placed outside the ballast tank under the sliding galley, one could fit at least 12 feet. The ballast tank itself will accommodate about 19 feet without any folding, and from what I have now seen, one would not need to worry about movement of the storage tube within the ballast tank, the majority of the tank itself will closely contain the sausage. I'm going to test the 3" tube that I currently have using it under the galley, and then decide if I want to try getting 6" hose and a slightly larger abrasion sleeve to use for the ballast tank.

[Russ]

Very interesting. Keep us posted with your progress.

[BOAT]

It's not enough water. For all that work it's just a small amount of water. You can get the same amount of water in a hard plastic tank custom made by US Plastics to fit the area under the most forward bow berth hatch. There is probably enough room in there for 30 gallons with a full size tank and when full the water tank puts a good weight in the lower bow which helps with choppy water and also makes the boat go faster when motoring at high speeds.

US Plastics makes welded seam hard plastic tanks that are indestructible - I have had them build several for me for off road vehicles and they take a huge beating and never break.

I suggest you look at a mod done by kadet on this site:



This is one of the best mod ideas on the site - kadet always comes up with the best original ideas - I usually copy kadets ideas - he has good ones.

The reason kadets water tank is such a good idea is that when the tank is empty it provides just as much flotation as the foam it replaced - it's a most innovative way to store water.

I would be very worried about messing around with the ballast. At least I would not mess with the aft gate - the bigger the gate the more pressure it's holding per square inch. This is an interesting mod.

[RobertB]

For the bow mounted tank, it looks like there is a pump. Is this in addition to the system pump? Curious since my fresh water fill is in the stern, currently my 10 gal tank is near the companionway ladder but I am curious on the plumbing challenges in moving the tank forward.

[Sumner]

I like that bow mounted tank and Boat makes good points. Messing with the ballast tank just seems to be a lot of work without much in the way of rewards. Of course I've been guilty of that myself on some projects .

For the bow mounted tank, it looks like there is a pump. Is this in addition to the system pump? Curious since my fresh water fill is in the stern, currently my 10 gal tank is near the companionway ladder but I am curious on the plumbing challenges in moving the tank forward.

If I still had a smaller tank near the galley I'd put that pump on the bow tank on a switch and only use it to transfer water to the smaller tank when it becomes low,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[RobertB]

If I still had a smaller tank near the galley I'd put that pump on the bow tank on a switch and only use it to transfer water to the smaller tank when it becomes low,Sumner

But how would you fill the bow tank? A reversible pump?

[BOAT]

For the bow mounted tank, it looks like there is a pump. Is this in addition to the system pump? Curious since my fresh water fill is in the stern, currently my 10 gal tank is near the companionway ladder but I am curious on the plumbing challenges in moving the tank forward.

Yes, I agree, but I also think it is worth the challenge. And I would also put the pump elsewhere. The pump I use in my motorhome is powerful enough to provide water to any fixture on the boat at full pressure - I would mount the pump on the wall right on the other side there. I already have electric there for my electric bow vent solenoid valve so adding a pump mounted on that wall is easy in 'boat'.

Like everything else, I will steal kadets idea and make my own adjustments. I will get all the dimensional data and I will send it to the guys at US Plastics and get a quote. The tank I will have made will be the largest possible tank to fit into that triangle shaped opening and I will make sure the shape nearly fills the void completely. The empty areas left around the tank i will fill with the foam. That should make the water tank VERY big - like 25 to 35 gallons I hope? Without all the calculations I can't say - but here are the reason why this is a very good idea (credit must go to kadet on this - he has GREAT ideas).
I will also need to run another vent tube up to the locker to make the tank work properly.

The reasons:

If you even suspect your going to need the extra flotation you lost putting in the tank you can get it back in just a few minutes by dumping the tank - the tank provides just as much flotation empty as the foam it replaced. That location for flotation is a bit unstable anyways - and that's why the factory has so much foam above it around the bow hatch (so the boat does not turn over when submerged).

The tank also has great benefits when full - it provides weight to get the bow down which makes the boat go faster under WOT. And Highlander has already proved that having all the fresh water in the bow also improves the performance of the boat when sailing through choppy seas and heavy swells. Highlander stores over 20 gallons in his bow.

kadets idea is a very good one - it just needs help from a little custom fabrication with a custom shaped tank. I know how to do that - been there done that.

The sausage tanks are a great idea for you river and lake guys, but I would not risk it on any ocean going MAC boats.

[BOAT]

If I still had a smaller tank near the galley I'd put that pump on the bow tank on a switch and only use it to transfer water to the smaller tank when it becomes low,Sumner

But how would you fill the bow tank? A reversible pump?

Probably in my case I would fill it through the vent hose I will be putting in up in the anchor locker.

[Sumner]

But how would you fill the bow tank? A reversible pump?

Boat's plan sounds good but I might modify it some if I had the option of filling from a garden hose say vs. gravity filling.



My teardrop has a water tank...



... in the rear in that compartment behind the axle. Besides the output line going to an electric pump by the tank I plumbed in two other lines that are garden hoses. They connect to the tank and you can reach them up under the back of the teardrop when it come time to fill the tank. I have ...



... garden hose shut off valves on each hose. I open both and connect a garden hose to one and turn on the water. When water comes out the other one in a steady stream the tank is filled. I remove the hose and shut off both valves. Filling the tank with a pressure hose goes much faster than trying to fill a line with a pressure hose where it is just draining down into the tank. I had that situation once with a camper and hated how long it took to fill the tank.

I also have a smaller tank up under the sink to capture the grey water. I can empty it via a gravity drain someplace where the grey water isn't a problem. This of course wouldn't be needed on the boat,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[BOAT]

Don't forget sumner that sometimes you sail out there in the Bahamas where they don't have hoses at the dock and you need to haul your own water - you will need a way to fill the tank from a jerry can or bucket. You will need a hole that can take a funnel or something.

[seahouse]

Don't forget sumner that sometimes you sail out there in the Bahamas where they don't have hoses at the dock and you need to haul your own water - you will need a way to fill the tank from a jerry can or bucket. You will need a hole that can take a funnel or something.

…that or a short length of hose with a funnel attached to one end, and a fitting on the other?

[BOAT]

Don't forget sumner that sometimes you sail out there in the Bahamas where they don't have hoses at the dock and you need to haul your own water - you will need a way to fill the tank from a jerry can or bucket. You will need a hole that can take a funnel or something.

…that or a short length of hose with a funnel attached to one end, and a fitting on the other?

Yeah, one of those, Hey seahouse! What were the long ty-wraps for that came with the washers? Is there something I'm supposed to tye up ?

[seahouse]

No, just some sample releasable ties I threw in for you to try out. To use for anything on a boat, sail ties, securing things (shrouds, boom, sail etc for trailering etc) link them together to make longer ones. Strong and reusable, I find them very useful, fast on and off, and their applied tension is positive and adjustable, unlike bungee cords. I think they are greatly underrated as a boat necessity. Let me know what you think… and how the rudder washers work when you put them on.

- B