EV-100 Auto Pilot Install

[BOAT]

Let me know what you find in there. I would like to get the lid off that thing so I can fix it up proper. I also need to put some braces under the compartment that holds up the galley - the reason the galley can move slightly is because the compartment below has some flex in it. It needs a stiffener. The factory should have put one in made of foam and glass so it would be light - I don't know if I can make on that light.

[Jimmyt]

Yep, went downstairs and checked. Mine is glassed to the base. Corners are the only place it wasn't glassed. I see why so many mods just cut the top out and put a new top insert in. Maybe a small die grinder with a cutoff wheel... Or the chainsaw?

Interesting approach (not mine) - http://1happykat.blogspot.com/2015/04/b ... ments.html

[RobertB]

#3. The drive unit has a plastic end cap even though it was clearly designed to take a 3/8" IPT metal ram on the end like they use on airplanes and ships.
This is an issue unless you want to carry spare caps. When the plastic ones strip out or break you will need a replacement.

You realize you installed this on a plastic boat

[BOAT]

#3. The drive unit has a plastic end cap even though it was clearly designed to take a 3/8" IPT metal ram on the end like they use on airplanes and ships.
This is an issue unless you want to carry spare caps. When the plastic ones strip out or break you will need a replacement.

You realize you installed this on a plastic boat

Precisly, and that is why I think Raytheon put the plastic tip on there.
(See the comment I made about this http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... 66#p303186 )

The very thing Raytheon would be concerned about is that linear drive smashing it's way through a thin gel coat gunnel or cockpit rail or breaking a tiller because a rudder jammed on a sand bar or something. Imagine the lawsuit for Ray Marine if their drive disabled a little sailboat out at sea. I think Raytheon put the plastic tip on there on purpose to protect the flimsy places they knew "consumers" would install this product. The plastic cap is there to fail first before the drive smashes a tiller or something. I think they were worried about liability. I say that because you can look up all the same drives on their aerospace division and it's the same stuff - only no plastic parts.

There are a lot of things about auto pilots that people don't consider when they use them. The most important thing is that the person at the helm can overpower the autopilot and take control without the need to turn off the system. I'm pretty sure that's covered on this unit. Other things consumers need to be aware of is "what happens if my boat turns over? Or slams a really hard wave?"

It's not just a failure of the plastic tip that can shut you down, anything that can knock the drive off the tiller, (like a wave or storm) is always an issue to be aware of.

These are the situations where a wheel drive or a wheelhouse drive like Captain Victor makes are superior.

[kadet]

It's not just a failure of the plastic tip that can shut you down, anything that can knock the drive off the tiller, (like a wave or storm) is always an issue to be aware of.

These are the situations where a wheel drive or a wheelhouse drive like Captain Victor makes are superior.

Or a drive belt breaks or plastic cog in the drive motor strips or the battery shorts or...

[Russ]

It's not just a failure of the plastic tip that can shut you down, anything that can knock the drive off the tiller, (like a wave or storm) is always an issue to be aware of.

These are the situations where a wheel drive or a wheelhouse drive like Captain Victor makes are superior.

Or a drive belt breaks or plastic cog in the drive motor strips or the battery shorts or...

The bagel mount has a clutch you can release. Still, the thought of a jam at the worst possible moment frightens me with that thing. I'd prefer a belt that can be yanked off.
Therefore my guess is that BOAT is right about the plastic end. They have breakaway "fuse" parts that will give way if the operator forces hard enough.

--Russ

[Pizzanova]

I have been thinking of using one of these autopilot systems with a chartplotter to guide my way?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pixhawk-PX4-2-4- ... 19fd56ad38

[kurz]

Hi Russ,
To make the steering adjustable, I cut a piece off the cross-rod, created a threated insert inside the tube and used a rod-end to adjust the rudder distance (Rod-end is McMaster-Carr PN# 2434K51).



Obelix

After years of using my I read the first time the user manual...

on page 24 Roger says: "...You might also check to make sure your rudders are parallel with each other. If not, they tend to fight each other and dreate unnecessary drag. YOU CAN ADJUST THEM BY JUDICIOUSLY BENDING THE TILLER CORSS BAR. ..."

[Russ]

After years of using my I read the first time the user manual...

on page 24 Roger says: "...You might also check to make sure your rudders are parallel with each other. If not, they tend to fight each other and dreate unnecessary drag. YOU CAN ADJUST THEM BY JUDICIOUSLY BENDING THE TILLER CORSS BAR. ..."

Yea, that's what I want to do...JUDICIOUSLY BEND...my steering arm. And of course that only works if you need to toe them IN.

[Obelix]

In addition if you introduce any bend to the cross-rod you also invite the possibility of flex, depending on angle of the bend(s) and the force applied. That's why I went for a straight solution, modifying the rod.

Obelix

[BOAT]

If i were to attach an auto pilot drive unit directly to the tie bar I don't think I would use the original bar. I think I would put in something just a tad stronger with less flex. That's what i was planning to do all along with this install until I got the specs from RayMarine that said they wanted at least a 14 inch tiller for proper leverage. Since the tie rod is attached less than 13 inches from the axle I knew the tie rod was not gonna work and gave up that idea.

Yeah, that whole M boat steering thing is an interesting gadget - when I first got the boat I had reservations but now that I have had it for a while and also after being forced to dis-assemble it and work out every angle of geometry of the system I have come to have great respect for the thing.

(I don't know who Roger got for welding but they are great welders)

Also, it's an example of simplicity.
Furthermore, it's well thought out for a case of failure of the tie rod: The steering cable is attached to the starboard rudder, so if the rod breaks you still have control of the starboard rudder from the wheel. That's also why I attached the Pilot to the starboard rudder - so I could still overpower the AP with a broken tie rod. Also, having the motor attached to the opposite PORT rudder was a good idea from the factory in case you lose your steering cable because in that case all you need to do is attach the temporary tiller that comes with the outboard to the motor and viola! You now have control of the port rudder from the cockpit with an emergency tiller!

If RayMarine did not need 14 inches of tiller to turn the boat you could just attach the ball and trap right on the existing tiller arm

But apparently this little mechanical unit is not that strong, or they would have allowed connection closer to the axle, (which is ALWAYS BETTER because it gives you more swing range and a faster hard over time). A really smart person who knows hydraulic engineering could come up with a better stronger drive unit than this one and have it attach the ball and trap directly on the tiller arm closer to the axle, thus also eliminating the 4 inch loss of rudder angle when attached.

But, hydraulics is not part of basic Troll education and not in my skill set, so I guess I'm stuck with this "consumer" grade mechanical drive (for my own good so I don't break something).

.

[kadet]

If RayMarine did not need 14 inches of tiller to turn the boat you could just attach the ball and trap right on the existing tiller arm

That actuator is rated for a 6000kg (13,200 lbs) boat and puts out a maximum of 84kg of thrust. I figured the effort involved to extend the rudder tiller arm was not worth the effort given how far below the maximum capacity of the actuator our little boats are. The other advantage is the slightly smaller arc gives a larger hard over from stop to stop so a tighter turning circle.

As for flex I get none on the standard tie in bar it is a compression load not a lateral load.

I think your installation is a brilliant solution and if I ever did it again I would probably do it your way without the extended tiller arm

[BOAT]

If RayMarine did not need 14 inches of tiller to turn the boat you could just attach the ball and trap right on the existing tiller arm

That actuator is rated for a 6000kg (13,200 lbs) boat and puts out a maximum of 84kg of thrust. I figured the effort involved to extend the rudder tiller arm was not worth the effort given how far below the maximum capacity of the actuator our little boats are. The other advantage is the slightly smaller arc gives a larger hard over from stop to stop so a tighter turning circle.

As for flex I get none on the standard tie in bar it is a compression load not a lateral load.

I think your installation is a brilliant solution and if I ever did it again I would probably do it your way without the extended tiller arm

I'm sure the 13 inch connection on the tie bar is just fine - I was going to do it too, it's not really a big deal except that when i contacted Raytheon they made such a stunk about it (lawyers!) that I decided to give the baby his bottle, but what your saying brings up something else - I calculate the rudder swing on the M boat at 62 degrees so that should make the stop set at 31 degrees but what about the hard over time? Seems to me it's much less than 3 seconds if they are talking 31 degrees, and they don't even have a rudder stop setting over 50 degrees so I assume they MUST be talking about a rudder stop of 31 degrees for a boat that swings 62 degrees, right? I think 3 seconds is too much. What did you come up with? (I wish mastreb were here - he would know). I'm set at 2.6 right now.

[kadet]

What did you come up with? (I wish mastreb were here - he would know).

It's Saturday morning here and I am re-doing the galley, bits all over the place... I wish mastreb was here too this is beyond my computer maths brain at the moment

From memory when I went through the setup and commissioning process (remember I have the older model SPX-5) you turned the wheel by hand lock to lock pressing set keys when prompted. The computer then worked out the hardover times and the rudder stop points from what was entered. I don't recall ever having to manually set times or angles

[BOAT]

Yeah, the new unit has a place to plug in a rudder reference device but if you don't use one they suggest you set that manually. Hey if your in the galley maybe you can tell me how to get the top of the galley off. I know your busy up to your neck in wombats and wallaby's and all but if you have a chance later give me some advice on.

I am going to email mastreb right now for some beer - your right - it's Saturday SOMEWHERE in the world so maybe I should stop worrying about this stuff and drink some beer.