Help - slighly discouraged - setting up rig on 26x - failure

[Erik Hardtle]

Suggestion... youtube has lot of mast raising videos for the 26X... including mine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5i0nLon1aA

My website has some pic that might help too:

http://www.enctrader.com/hardtlefamily/ ... efault.htm

Erik
Knot Shore

[Signaleer]

Erik,

Don't take this the wrong way but there have been a few times in the last few days that my buddy Nicholas and I have said ... You know that guy Erik? F that guy!



So, you, and your doc's are quite well-known to me and that is why we were so surprised after our first experience. However, now, I'm learning about this boat and am going to re-rig the entire boat.

So, that brings me to my next question: Currently this rigging is swage / crimped... right or wrong?

Ed.

[Catigale]

Erik,

Don't take this the wrong way but there have been a few times in the last few days that my buddy Nicholas and I have said ... You know that guy Erik? F that guy!



So, you, and your doc's are quite well-known to me and that is why we were so surprised after our first experience. However, now, I'm learning about this boat and am going to re-rig the entire boat.

So, that brings me to my next question: Currently this rigging is swage / crimped... right or wrong?

Ed.

Stock rigging is swage crimped, correct. Two swages on all critical points

[Tomfoolery]

The forestay has a roller-swaged male stud on one end (goes to the turnbuckle inside the furler), and uses Nicopress style crimped oval copper sleeves (NOT aluminium) at the other end. 1/8" for the forestay and backstay, and 5/32" for the shrouds. All are 1x19 class SS wire rope. Thimbles, of course.

I've made some of my own rigging, but I've found that BWY sells ready-made standing rigging for about what it costs me to roll my own, and unless you beat it up when rigging/derigging for trailering, or unless it's very old, it's essentially a once and done affair.

[Catigale]

I have a Johnson lever on mine but you can see the toggle inboard of my fingers. Your forestay plate in your boat should attach where the lever on mine is.

You should have no shackles between the toggle and the plate, not even the one you had before you added the extra. The forestay typically has 300-400 pounds tension on it.



It's really amazing the two screws held your mast up. I'm guessing PO sailed in serene lake conditions or didn't use furler

Nice catch Tom....I completely missed it on the picture. You definitely saved a mast and probably an injury or two

[DaveC426913]

Here's the part on BWY's web site. P/N 3106-000. http://www.bwyachts.com/



For $36 plus shipping, you can't go wrong, even if you don't need the whole turnbuckle. But you can see the missing piece straddling the tee-bolt. Everything but the toggle is (or should be) up inside the furler. The open end of the turnbuckle takes the stud that's swaged onto the forestay wire.

Are you saying that I probably have one of these inside the furler drum of my X??

And all I have to do to not kill myself attaching the forestay is loosen that a half inch???

Where were you five years ago!!

[Tomfoolery]

Here's the part on BWY's web site. P/N 3106-000. http://www.bwyachts.com/



For $36 plus shipping, you can't go wrong, even if you don't need the whole turnbuckle. But you can see the missing piece straddling the tee-bolt. Everything but the toggle is (or should be) up inside the furler. The open end of the turnbuckle takes the stud that's swaged onto the forestay wire.

Are you saying that I probably have one of these inside the furler drum of my X??

And all I have to do to not kill myself attaching the forestay is loosen that a half inch???

Where were you five years ago!!

Five years ago, I was busy taking these pictures.





Mine, right after I got it. OP: You can just see the female part of the toggle in that picture. The strap is removed, and the drum is slid up the foil, after pulling the one pin that holds it down.

But I've only adjusted it once, when I replaced the forestay and tuned the rig. I just crank down on the MRS to make the stem fitting pin.

[Whipsyjac]

Here's the part on BWY's web site. P/N 3106-000. http://www.bwyachts.com/


Where were you five years ago!!

Dave, I had the same questions when I bought Whipsyjac and joined the forum...it actually comes up often and often with pics. Please don't back off your turnbuckle. From your recent posts you've been improving your sailing and loosening the forestay will be counterproductive to that. If you raise the mast alone get an MRS to ease pinning the forestay or a Johnson lever. If you have help get the second person on the ground with one end of the jib halyard and the other over it's block above the forestay and down to the pulpit. We've found that just about any helper on the ground ahead of the boat and trailer can pass the halyard behind their back and just by leaning back make pinning the forestay a breeze.

Although I still want a Johnson lever and a loos guage to tune my rigging that elusive extra 0.1 kt under sail will get me across the Salish Sea 2 minutes 24 seconds quicker(10NM from the Bell buoy off Pt Roberts to Active Pass)

Willy

[WASP18]

Mr. Tomfoolery:

Page 16 in the "Owner's Instructions" manual states: "Attach the forward corner of the Jib to the REAR hole in the forestay chainplate using a shackle as shown." And the photograph shows the Jib attached as described in the rear hole while the forestay is attached to the FORWARD hole

In the "Genoa Option" paragraph on page 17, it states that the "Genoa is installed and handled just like the Jib". Last Thursday, I attached my Genoa to the REAR hole "just like the Jib", yet I don't feel comfortable with this because the Genoa is also the forestay. Should I attach the Genoa to the forward Hole? This is the first time I've rigged the boat and I haven't sailed it yet.

Thanks for your help and extremely valuable safety contributions to this forum.

[kadet]

Mr. Tomfoolery:

Page 16 in the "Owner's Instructions" manual states: "Attach the forward corner of the Jib to the REAR hole in the forestay chainplate using a shackle as shown." And the photograph shows the Jib attached as described in the rear hole while the forestay is attached to the FORWARD hole

In the "Genoa Option" paragraph on page 17, it states that the "Genoa is installed and handled just like the Jib". Last Thursday, I attached my Genoa to the REAR hole "just like the Jib", yet I don't feel comfortable with this because the Genoa is also the forestay. Should I attach the Genoa to the forward Hole? This is the first time I've rigged the boat and I haven't sailed it yet.

Thanks for your help and extremely valuable safety contributions to this forum.

This is describing how to set up hank on sails both jib and genoa. I suspect you have a furler for your genoa by your description so use the forward hole after you have removed the hank on fore-stay for your jib.

[WASP18]

I have a CDI Flexible Furler. http://www.sailcdi.com/sailpdf/FF1%20manual%207_06.pdf It came with the boat. Thanks for clarifying the forward hole as the correct hole.

[kadet]

I have a CDI Flexible Furler. http://www.sailcdi.com/sailpdf/FF1%20manual%207_06.pdf It came with the boat. Thanks for clarifying the forward hole as the correct hole.

If your jib is a hank on you could always run a removable inner stay and set up a solent rig and pretend to be a cutter

[Tomfoolery]

In the "Genoa Option" paragraph on page 17, it states that the "Genoa is installed and handled just like the Jib". Last Thursday, I attached my Genoa to the REAR hole "just like the Jib", yet I don't feel comfortable with this because the Genoa is also the forestay. Should I attach the Genoa to the forward Hole?

I think you may be conflating the forestay and furler with the jib/genoa. The forestay is the wire rope, attached to the hound near the top of the mast, and to the stem fitting (forestay chainplate) at the bottom. It holds up the mast whether there is a sail on it or not, or for that matter, whether the furler and foil (the plastic 'track' that surrounds almost the entire the forestay) are there or not. The furler and foil provide no structural support to the mast whatsoever - only the forestay does that.

When changing from one sail to the other (or a storm sail, or whatever), the forestay and furler remain in place, with the mast up. You untie the 'halyard', which in this case is the little line that comes with the furler, and attach a temporary messenger line to it. Lower the sail by sliding it down the groove (the messenger will go up, up course), remove the sail, attach the new sail, and pull the messenger to raise the new sail. Some sail lube will help the bolt rope from being sticky in the foil groove.

Pull the messenger in line with the groove, close to the foil (it will bind if you pull at an angle), until you can grab the actual halyard line, attach the tack fitting (at the forward bottom of the sail) to the little shackle on the furler, tension the halyard with a couple of turns through the shackle and tack fitting, tie it off, wind up the sail, and you're golden.

The Mac manual says to use the forward hole of the stem fitting because the tack fitting of the sail needs the aft hole to attach to. The furler has it's own connection point for the tack, so only one hole is used. But when I'm flying the spinnaker, which doesn't use the furler or forestay, I pin the forestay/furler to the aft hole so I can use the forward hole for the spinnaker tack fitting. Those two holes are on what appears to be the same radius from the mast hound up top, so it doesn't change the tension in the forestay when using one instead of the other. Just sayin'.

[WASP18]

In the "Genoa Option" paragraph on page 17, it states that the "Genoa is installed and handled just like the Jib". Last Thursday, I attached my Genoa to the REAR hole "just like the Jib", yet I don't feel comfortable with this because the Genoa is also the forestay. Should I attach the Genoa to the forward Hole?

I think you may be conflating the forestay and furler with the jib/genoa. The forestay is the wire rope, attached to the hound near the top of the mast, and to the stem fitting (forestay chainplate) at the bottom. It holds up the mast whether there is a sail on it or not, or for that matter, whether the furler and foil (the plastic 'track' that surrounds almost the entire the forestay) are there or not. The furler and foil provide no structural support to the mast whatsoever - only the forestay does that.

When changing from one sail to the other (or a storm sail, or whatever), the forestay and furler remain in place, with the mast up. You untie the 'halyard', which in this case is the little line that comes with the furler, and attach a temporary messenger line to it. Lower the sail by sliding it down the groove (the messenger will go up, up course), remove the sail, attach the new sail, and pull the messenger to raise the new sail. Some sail lube will help the bolt rope from being sticky in the foil groove.

Pull the messenger in line with the groove, close to the foil (it will bind if you pull at an angle), until you can grab the actual halyard line, attach the tack fitting (at the forward bottom of the sail) to the little shackle on the furler, tension the halyard with a couple of turns through the shackle and tack fitting, tie it off, wind up the sail, and you're golden.

The Mac manual says to use the forward hole of the stem fitting because the tack fitting of the sail needs the aft hole to attach to. The furler has it's own connection point for the tack, so only one hole is used. But when I'm flying the spinnaker, which doesn't use the furler or forestay, I pin the forestay/furler to the aft hole so I can use the forward hole for the spinnaker tack fitting. Those two holes are on what appears to be the same radius from the mast hound up top, so it doesn't change the tension in the forestay when using one instead of the other. Just sayin'.

Many, many thanks!

I have a genoa on a CDI Flexible Furler only. My concern was when I mounted it to the aft hole, was it safe? Apparently it is, THANK YOU! I'll move it to the forward hole now for sailing efficiency. (Of course I'll first set up the mast raising system, braked with forward tension to hold the mast up while doing this)

Another question: I followed Erik H's rigging-tips video for trailering by detaching the top of the genoa (forestay) from the mast and pulling it backward to avoid genoa droop near the bow (and then tying it to the forward mast above the bow). This is what happened: Just as I detached the genoa-forestay from the mast fitting, it SPUN briefly in my hand. Took me by surprise. Must I do something with the CDI Furler to compensate for this? Sort-of reminded me of a window shade suddenly snapping upward.

[Tomfoolery]

Wild guess, but I have a feeling the forestay was getting bound inside the furler foil.

If it were me, I'd disconnect the forestay and slide it out the top of the foil and inspect. DON'T run your hand along the wire, as if there is a broken wire, it WILL impale you, and an oily hole in your skin from an errant broken wire hurts like the dickens. If your furler was improperly connected below the drum, then it wouldn't surprise me if the forestay got wound up a bit, and/or has broken wires. With the mast down, it takes minutes to pop it free at the turnbuckle and slip it out the top of the foil, and it's super cheap insurance that something isn't deadly wrong inside the foil, where you can't normally see it.

Just a feeling, from working with wire rope for the last 40 years (crane industry).