Solar, Batteries, Water and Refrigeration Challenge

[RGF]

Getting there ( to the Caribbean , ie Virgin Islands) might be a little bit tough no doubt ,but Jaime Alonso on the Stella Maris seems to be doing very well going from Puerto Rico to Virgin Gorda and back & making very good time it appears. I can't wait till he gets back and gives a full report. Maybe it is easier to get around once you do finally get there .

[RobertB]

I do not think my family of five would survive together on a boat in the middle of a calm lake. Heck with the ocean, we would have a regular Agatha Christie story just from the long term close proximity

[fishstalker7]

Hi everyone!

I'm going to attempt to address the questions, issues and concerns expressed in the many thoughtful posts regarding my goals. First, thank you for your efforts to help. Second, my schedule has been crazy and I wanted to make time to fully address and honor the opinions expressed so I appreciate your feedback once this post hits your feed.


Chinook and March: Two thoughts...definitely a fisherman...not a catcherman! And it does help when you are shooting the fish vs dangling bait (I love to eat both catches)! I also figure that whether I am hosing down a catch or a kid...about 3x day usage is about right.


kevinnem: 1) still researching the freshwater pump; the raw water washdown will be the "Johnson 5.3 gpm washdown pump" (will come up if you google that description).
2) more power: I agree, but still want to keep the panels bimini mounted. When I fold my bimini up for local (within an hour/under 50mph) launches, I want the panels to fold up like a triangle under the mast...seems like 100w panels are the largest, two piece size I can find that would fit there?
3) I'm not planning hot water...no need here with solar bags (2x aboard).
4) I learned from the board that 2 are required and am trying to decide if the weight tradeoff to extra power is worth it?? Still undecided on this one (vs 1x starting/1xdeep cycle system)??
I'm not sure how to tie together the solar panel (2x100watt), the engine charger/alternator and a 2nd golf cart battery bank (the isolator sounds good, but not sure how to wire the whole system together?)??
5) Agreed...love my new LEDs (everywhere, but steaming light).
6) Any recommendations? I am considering having a 12v laptop built for me? Thanks for the tip on the invertor power draw being high.
7 ) I think I've decided to go with a plastismo flexible tank for 20g capacity. I wanted a hard tank, but I couldn't find one to fit well and mounting challenges are high. It seems like everyone is using the flexible tanks and it could serve as backup buoyancy if needed/filled with air (a lot of foam came out of that front area...I was surprised).
Thanks for your help!


kadet: Thank you! It sounds close to what I have stumbled blindly upon in my research! I think with the 2x100 watt panels (and maybe tying in the old 50w I have too), I'll be in the ballpark on the "in" side...also a vote for doing the 2nd golf cart battery bank (or a specialized deep capacity one)? I would love to sneak by with a 2x battery system for weight and the complexity of wiring in a whole new bank, but this definitely is suggestive of needing that? I do have a Honda 2k generator to run the hatchboard mount a/c system I put in...I could use that to charge as well or to top off before bed. The solar is good about 65% of the time here/at destinations, so I would like to build the system primarily around solar as my fuel capacity is only 30g without adding deck mounted tanks. I'm not familiar with the batteries (50+AGM) you refer to...any recommendations? Thanks again for your help!


mastreb: Do you have a link or pic to the engine mount of a Honda 2k? I've been playing around with where to put that when in operation. Were you referring to an actual jumpstarting battery system (portable style)? If so, what kind of batteries would you use (starting/deep cycle or deep/deep)? Thanks for your help!


bahamabound: I too am considering radar, I'd be curious as to the setup you went with or sharing ideas on that at your leisure! I too love the Mac and am stepping up to it from a larger keelboat! I love the simplicity and having it on a trailer for all the places we go! I ordered a "jeep jerry can" style 5g fuel tank that fits nicely under the helm seat and carry a 1g dinghy tank for 30g overall. One reason I have not upgraded the engine to larger than a 60hp is the fuel range and efficiency of the Etec 60...it sips gas at 4-5 knots. I do plan to sail (and plan my trip plan around the departure weather to the DT's so I can motor back if necessary). I figure with 1g used for dinghy ops, 4g for Honda 2k (if I use it at all) and 25g for main engine...my range should be about 100nm miles at a minimum in the 2200 rpm range (very open to any links of someone who has metered data on the Etec 60)? How do you power your Engle? I agree on the jet skis...it's all about risk management, planning ahead and for contingencies of a craft's known limitations. Thanks again!


March: I agree...planning to work with the weather (at expense of our calendars) is critical to using our boat's strengths and planning for their weaknesses (not blue water boats). Great to hear I am in the ballpark of fuel...may carry 5g more to be safe (35g) on the DT trip? Thank you for your experience and thoughts!


RussMT: Thank you! I have been following Sumner and others who have taken the Mac abroad...I agree...lots to be learned from their pioneering and I hope to contribute to others from our experiences. When we are 5 aboard, there are usually 2-3 up top and 2-3 below on average, so it's not so bad. Only at bedtime, does it get crowded. During ocean sailing, typically everyone is topside (you must have stern rail seats on these boats...they are the best!), so again, it's not too bad. The trailerability and shallow draft more than makeup for the discomforts. My Mac in one year has been more places than any of my or my friend's keelboats (VA, NC, GA, numerous FL locations, Upper Keys). That's the fun compromise for a little crowding...just have to have a backpacker mentality vs the Winnabago! As a former Ranger and Green Beret commander (with 40 years of sailing/racing experience in all water types), living off grid, risk management, weather management, trip planning, living out of what you can carry, self-rescue, etc. are areas I'm comfortable with...but each captain should always make their own assessments of preparedness, risk, comfort and tradeoffs. I read a post on this forum of a trip to the DT's where it sounds as though maybe the weather was a bit questionable coming back and some equipment damages occurred due to a herd/calendar mentality. Conversely, I raced (and won) an offshore event recently (not in my Mac) with no mishaps of any of the boats participating, but in weather that half the skippers decided was too much to race in. Know your limits (and my family's in this case) and the vessel's (this is not a blue water boat), be prepared for the worst case, take active steps to minimize risks/threats...that's how you do dangerous stuff routinely and safely. I also plan to ship the boat to some destinations down the road (would really like to do the Med). Down here, we have ships leaving all the time for the Caribbean with boats craned aboard or in containers (love the Mac). Just another few ways to reduce risk. In most cases, the open water passages between sheltered areas are less than 24 hours and a 24 hour forecast is about 95% accurate with good weather resources (just don't be a calendar-slave and go against mother nature), so definitely not planning to cross oceans on a Mac...just small parts! Thank you...I do appreciate your thoughts, experiences and the caring spirit in which they were offered...thank you again.

As to solar, the size of family does limit me to the bimini top. Any other area would get abused with the age of kids and activity aboard, but maybe someday with a hard dodger?? I'm playing around with a design that would be wider and still give top deck access that you could mount hard panels to...a bridge too far for this mod-cycle...but maybe down the road?

I've not seriously looked into desalinator's (any recommendations??) as most of our trips would be within normal water/fuel resupply locations. In remote locales, we would be doing a sponge-bath salt rinse after saltwater showers (and only as resupply availability allowed), but for normal trips, we would have the greater water tank capacity to be richer with showers.

Thanks for the AMP correction...missed that in editing... and you are correct about that being the Engle range.

Sounds like another endorsement for a12v laptop...I really need to learn/do the math on the refrigeration and solar piece as fuel is a premium in the remote locales as well...thanks for the invertor tips!

Thanks again for your help and assistance! Your thoughts on safety should be well considered by all who push the limits of these lightly built, but wonderful boats!


sailboatmike: Agreed...it doesn't matter how good you/your equipment is if you put yourself in a bad position with everything going against you. Murphy is alive and well!!


kurz: I can't help you on the Etec 60 power. I'll look into the arch solar (mine is up all the time for the occasional bridge), any thoughts on how that setup does when trailering often or over longer distances? Thanks!


dlandersson:


RGF: True...he is having a great adventure! And remember, insurance and shipping is not that expensive from FL vs chartering expense? And once you're there...it is coastal again. Thanks for your input!


RobertB: LOL...true...it may be a 13 footer a couple of days in!!


Thanks again for all of your thoughts, experience, input and wisdom. There are additional questions to each of you/all of you in this response and I'd love to get links, actual products, solutions, etc. to some of my challenges. I know there is a lot of experience and knowledge represented here...thanks again for your assistance!

Very respectfully and thankfully to all,

David

[Catigale]

Check out the Cruising ROW desalination from Rich Boren, ex Mac Sailor

1/2 cost to buy and own over the big guys.

http://www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/About_Us.html

[Ixneigh]

Solar seems to be the standard and I love it but what about small wind turbines? It's blowing like stink here in the upper keys and has been for weeks.
I experimented with small turbines but could not find one the right size that was professionally made. The one I had was from a home shop on ebay and did not hold up to our winds. The ones made for the marine environment are much too big and heavy. I really wanted one I could remove before sailing.
Even if it only put out a few amps it does so at night.
The engineers on this board should be able to make short work of this:

Halyard set unit weighing under five pounds and having a swallowtail flexible rotor at the rear. It's hoisted to spreader level with a down haul secured to the centerboard cleat on the M model.
The motor slips inside a protective container perhaps PVC pipe. It has attachments for the halyard in such a position that it balances. The flexible vanes should make it resistant to high winds.
They should gently bend out straight for storage of the entire unit Inside a length of PVC pipe about three feet long. That could be stored on end clipped to the upright leg of the mast support arch. Or elsewhere.
When I looked at making one myself, I was stymied by the lack of available small motors however if one checks out the electric skateboard subject, there are many high voltage PM motors for them.

Ix

[Russ]

Check out the Cruising ROW desalination from Rich Boren, ex Mac Sailor

1/2 cost to buy and own over the big guys.

http://www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/About_Us.html

We met some live aboards in Honduras last year using his RO system. I even drank the water and it was perfect. They loved the system. RO systems require super high pressures and therefor power, either direct drive or electric pumps.

--Russ

[Braavos]

FWIW - and I am a first-year rookie so take my stuff with a grain of salt - what I did for Solar was buy one of these 100w kits from Amazon and mounted it on top of the fore windows, which I personally viewed as a waste since I wanted them covered anyway to keep the beating sun out of the cabin - http://smile.amazon.com/Renogy-100W-Mon ... 100w+solar. This serves two purposes at once - keeps out the heat and generates power!

Its just another suggestion for where to put panels, that I am surprised I never saw elsewhere on this board yet... most people seem to rig up something on the bimini or on the mast. I didn't want to put them on the bimini or mast because I want trailering setup to be as easy as possible... they are not in the way at all over the window.

[tp56ihs]

Bravvos- Any pictures? That is interesting concept.