Imagine A Powersailor design unconstrained by cost

[Ixneigh]

I don't know how any of those gaffers are going to carry a worthwhile jib without good head stay support. Even the last pic posted the boat had runners, with no jib even.
Re shorter mast. I have contemplated the telescoping slide up Gunter rig but scaling it ip from a dinghy to anything above 25 feet sounds expensive and problematic. I'm also not willing to loose any sailing performance. If it's a shorter mast you want, why not just cut the mast off above the jib hound and stick the part back on when you put the mast up? You could use a sleeve. It doesn't do anything but support a topping lift and a small bit of main. Not sure that would accomplish what you want, but it may reduce the spars overhang from the back of the boat. One might even be able to chop the mast right in half, with a well made sleeve style spice.
About the only effective large boat rig with a short mast would be a dhow or similar. I think in the end it will be hard to better the factory rig on ease, simplicity and economy. But it's fun to think about.
Ix

[Wayne nicol]

hi Ixneigh
yup yer right- it would have to have side stays and a head stay- just no spreaders-from what i understand the mast at 20' shouldnt need spreaders.

[J--]

I think I'm now understanding what is trying to be accomplished here.

The great loop and other cruising areas with bridges have mast height restrictions ranging from 15'6" to 19' in Chicago. Stepping/unstepping masts on the water is a pain.

I would think that a gaff rig would be more than adequate to drive a 26M, and would be a great compromise in performance and convenience.

The problem I think you're going to run into in doing this, and while I don't think it's impossible, is that currently the mast on a 26M is deck stepped, and I don't see any way to get an unstayed rig without having a keel or centerboard or bilge stepped mast ala the Freedom's. At the very least, you're going to need to cut a bigger hole in the deck, and will need to find a way to brace the foot of the mast and finally will need to glass in some lateral support underneath the deck to support the side stresses this mast will impart.

I'd like to see how this works, because a Great Loop is kind of a bucket list trip for me.

[Wayne nicol]

hi J
yea- I hear you guys on the traditional gaff rig being a free standing mast. but this would be stepped in the same place as the current mac mast, and still use the side shrouds/stays, and at least I head stay-as currently used on the mac, and with the new bowsprit and cutter rig- it would then have two head stays- so it will still be able to fly the head sails
cheers
wayne

[Wayne nicol]

just realized I have been hi-jacking the original thread here
gonna start a new thread
sorry to the OP
wayne

[Highlander]

just realized I have been hi-jacking the original thread here
gonna start a new thread
sorry to the OP
wayne

H/J is not a good word to use right now !

J

[dustoff]

No Worries,
As always, the insights from the board are great and the direction the posts take seems to always have value to all the Macgregor sailors out there. thanks to everyone for the thoughts.

Right now I am on a tear to find a design layout or photo of that Ian Anderson MRCB design....

v/r
dustoff

[mastreb]

is your gunter going to slide in the track- if so will the track handle the lateral force when under sail.

i did my calculations off the mac drawings off their site- and comparing to measurements against my own sails.

where did you calculate your c of e to be on the original rig, i would like to compare it to mine- in fact i will post a pic tomorrow of my drawings and calcs.

Here are my calcs:

Mainsail only:
3’8” abaft the mainsail luff
8’9” above the mainsail foot

150% Genoa only:
2’ 9” forward of the mainsail luff
7’10” above the mainsail foot

150% Genoa unfurled:
2” Abaft the mainsail luff
8’9” above the mainsail foot

Reefed to 30%:
1’10” abaft the mainsail luff
9’3” above the foot of the mainsail

110% Hank-on Jib
1” Abaft the mainsail luff
8’4 above the foot of the mainsail

[mastreb]

I think it would be too much work to go unstayed or sans spreaders on a Mac, and while running backstays wouldn't be impossible they would be hard. What I'm focusing on is a modified gaff rig that operates with the current mast and rigging as it mostly is. I'll post more about it once I've got my new mast and sail built and working. It'll be a lot more clear how the rig will work once that's done.

Matt

[Wayne nicol]

J
what would work for you would be the sliding gunter marconi/ bermudan rig,
mast remains stepped, release the halyard- drop the sail and the top portion of the mast-( gunter spar) it will slide down the main mast, leave head sails deployed- slip under the bridge - rehoist the gunter rig and sail simultaneously- carry on!!

only issue might be that you might want to head up to drop the sliding gunter, - and to raise it again.or at least luff the main, so that the sliding collar does not bind.
this does not effect the head stays or side stays- mast stays up- its just 10' or so shorter, and the full 30' length is attained by raising the sail and the sliding gunter

sliding gunter



folding gunter


come to think of it the folding gunter might be a bunch better for this application,
no need to head up,
just release the halyard,- that is lead back to the cockpit, and if the spar is stuck, tug on the leach,pulling the top of the spar away from the mast, and let the whole caboodle down and strap to the boom.- done
easy to reef- and might still be able to retain the spreaders.
if the folding gunter has a reciever on the now shortened mast head ( a U shaped thingie) to fit into- that will eliminate the gunter wanting to twist, and the bottom eye/collar needs to be oval shaped , and at (+ - 30 degrees) so when the halyard is loosened the collar is essentially larger, and when it is cinched up- in the raised position, the collar get tighter- keeping it in position on the mast.

maybe i need to sketch some pics!!!

[Catigale]

The trailerable (as generally accepted as being able to be pulled by a Ford F150) and offshore capable are mutually exclusive.

The fact that any boat has been taken offshore 'successfully' does not make it offshore capable. That debate has been flogged to death elsewhere on this forum - not to be rehashed here.

[Ixneigh]

That Gunter rig looks about as aerodynamic as a brick.
It will also be madness to reef or deal with in strong winds..

I notice a huge difference with the rotating mast.
Judy's sail, with the loose foot and the out haul adjusted right is great. Anything less I think will result in performance loss. I can sail right over my local flats with no board at all. I don't think I could do that without the rotating mast. It has more forward drive then a fixed mast. I had a single reef in 20k winds and the boat was great with just the main. I'd leave the mast down to go under a bunch of bridges before I took a big compromise on sailing ability.

Re seaworthiness, the problem with small boats, trailer able or not, is the amount of crp you need for a long trip weighs them down unless your a real minimalist. Trekka was 20 feet and could have been pulled by a pickup with a custom trailer. She went around the world twice. I'm sure the m and x have loads more living space. I could easily draw a trailer able 26 footer that is open ocean capable. But it will be tiny inside, expensive, and not have as shallow a draft. No boat can be everything. We make our choices.
Ix

[Wayne nicol]

hear hear... they are all trade offs!!
hence the idea with the folding or sliding gunter.
1.the mast would still rotate
2.yes it will lose some aerodynamics due to the gunter spar
3. but an acceptable trade off for me!

huge amt of convenience for a slight drop in speed- maybe- but with the new cutter rig- the boat would be gaining some performance again
cheers
wayne

sorry guys i missed the hi jacking thing- did something happen out there- were a little isolated up here in the far north.

[Catigale]

Trekka was also a wood keelboat......not trailerable in any weekend launch able sense.

Didn't she end up as a Lands End display case or something horrible like that??

[mastreb]

An aerodynamically shaped carbon fiber sliding gunter sleeved inside the mainsail luff and riding on two Harkin double battcars would work very well. It'll rotate along with the mast directly, and being itself aerodynamic, it will actually reduce wind drag because it can be much smaller than the mast profile. a 1.5" carbon spar would be more than sufficient to keep the top of sail up.

Chopping the mast at the top hound and using the integrated sliding gunter above that would take about 6' off the mast length which would be compensated by the sliding gunter.

Easily done with batt-cars. This would be a good way to go back to a bermudan style rig after the mast has been chopped for a gaff rig.