alcohol stoves ....again!!!

[Boblee]

OK got the better of me so I googled and found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt69fbNhCgs so you mob sure have a better variety of methylated spirits/alchohol readily available as far as I can see and some do and some don't blacken the pots, FTR ours is 95% v/v ethanol or thats what we have here and it blackens the pots (not as much as those tested) but seems to last a hull of a lot longer than the ones in the test as the 1litre bottle does at least 21 boils of the kettle without other cooking? in the origo which I would imagine is a lot more efficient than the burners shown.
Anything I can find says the alcohol fuelled stoves are preferable for safety reasons, can someone shed some views on this as it looks like it's not so cut and dried as first thought and a lot of variation in flame types for different mixtures or fuels also a lot of cost especially over the other side of the world.
Our metho is listed as for burner fuel, cleaning etc and really don't know that there is much variation or others available? we get what we get when and where available and carry plenty of spares as it's not always available.
Might be tighter regs here as we are at the top of nanny states.
Thanks for the technical details Mastreb you posted while I was typing but left it there anyway.
This site does it again, over the years have learnt so much useful info and hope I have contributed or helped to contribute a little back to help others.

[Wayne nicol]

what they do in SA- you know the the tough super rugby champ fellas - well our meths comes with a purple dye in it, it is apparently to make it visibly obvious, but also to make it extremely distasteful- so the buggers wont drink it, but they just strain it thru bread!!!! and that removes the purple dye- and then they can guzzle it- now how did they figure that out??

[Jeff L]

what they do in SA- you know the the tough super rugby champ fellas - well our meths comes with a purple dye in it, it is apparently to make it visibly obvious, but also to make it extremely distasteful- so the buggers wont drink it, but they just strain it thru bread!!!! and that removes the purple dye- and then they can guzzle it- now how did they figure that out??

Kind a like prison pruno or navy torpedo juice...

[nedmiller]

Propane is heavier than air and settles to the lowest place. In a travel trailer, those fumes leak out through small holes. There are no small holes in a boat, so every time you connect or disconnect a stove in your cabin, every time you light a burner, a small amount of propane settles into the lowest place inside your boat. If you get a leak in a hose or connection, the build-up to explosive levels can occur quickly. The potential is there for a deadly explosion if you use propane In the cabin, so you're going to have propane inside, a propane gas detector is an absolute necessity. Big boats that run propane lines have lots of special equipment like auto shut offs to make sure leaks do not occur, or are detected quickly. If you're thinking of putting propane in the cabin, read the articles on how to do it safely. It will be expensive. In our small boats, if propane is to be used, it should be in the cockpit only. Alcohol is much safer than propane--explosion is unlikely and it is more difficult to ignite. Non-pressurized alcohol stones are the best idea if you're going to be cooking inside.
We have a two burner Origo stove in the cabin, and a propane powered Magma grill off the back of the cockpit.
We have a set of nesting Magma stainless steel pans that we have used for the past 4 years on the alcohol stove, and no blackening has occurred.

[Boblee]

what they do in SA- you know the the tough super rugby champ fellas - well our meths comes with a purple dye in it, it is apparently to make it visibly obvious, but also to make it extremely distasteful- so the buggers wont drink it, but they just strain it thru bread!!!! and that removes the purple dye- and then they can guzzle it- now how did they figure that out??

Yeah bit like they bought out "opel" petrol to stop sniffing in certain areas and it is a big problem, but quickly "they" found out by dissolving polystyrene in the fuel they get the same effects, so in theory not only might your can of opel fuel get knocked off so might some of your positive flotation.
Probably a better use for the opel anyway as it is not as good for it's intended use, we never use it anymore after the first question we were asked when we took our etec in for a problem was do you use opel amid much tut tutting and scolding about how bad it was for engines.

Thanks Ned that was always my understanding too of propane which is why I always considered it more dangerous especially in conjunction with unsealed wet cell batteries, I have been caught with petrol fumes while filling a dinghy tank (luckily it was nearly full) and have seen the effects of someone filling a vehicle with a threeway fridge pilot inside so am understandably nervous especially in remote areas on the water.
Unfortunately the person in the last instance did not live and died horribly while they were trying to get him out of the remote area, a boat situation would be worse, which is why my fuel tank vents are always closed prior to lighting the barbq on the stern rails and it is a special marine type with the flame well enclosed.

[mastreb]

Well, if you think sniffing is bad, wait until teenagers find out that the E85 ethanol gas we sell here can be separated from gasoline simply by mixing it 70/30 with water. In about an hour, you get 2 gallons of cheap vodka with a gas slick on top for $3 and no ID necessary. Drain from the bottom and you're good, except for the trace benzine and the other toxics from refinement.

[Boblee]

Just found this on another website discussing butane cookers, one bloke in the thread also had a narrow escape when they assembled the cooker incorrectly and the can was very close to blowing, think I will stick to metho in the boat.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 6834256318

Mastreb it would cost more than that here with unleaded at $1.78 aust a litre.

[Wayne nicol]

[Mac26Mpaul]

Well, if you think sniffing is bad, wait until teenagers find out that the E85 ethanol gas we sell here can be separated from gasoline simply by mixing it 70/30 with water. In about an hour, you get 2 gallons of cheap vodka with a gas slick on top for $3 and no ID necessary. Drain from the bottom and you're good, except for the trace benzine and the other toxics from refinement.

That's it, I'm moving to the US

[DaveB]

Yep, Spent 3years and over 8500 miles cruising my Alberg 35 with a 2 burner converted over to odorless kerosene.
Burners are Swiss made.
Like I said, butane/propane is the best for us in short cruising.
Long range use Kerosene for hot BTU and low cost as a long distance Cruiser.
Propane/CNG/ is only were you find it. 5 Gal. Kerosene last more than 2 years cooking.
Dave

Dave certainly don't want another debate on this but do you have anything to verify the bold bit???? as it seems completely contrary to anything I have heard or seen in practice, the alcohol is certainly a cooler flame and takes longer to boil the kettle (harder to light) but a one litre bottle lasts us a week living full time on the boat with all cooking done on it where the butane we used last trip I just confirmed with the cook lasts two days max but much much better to cook with.
On that note we have never been concerned with the alcohol but one of the butane cans was making a slight hiss noise and that concerned both of us although as they are only used for emergencies the cans could have been old, if I was in a remote region I would have had more concern but last trip shore was only metres away.
I am pretty sure alcohol stoves are used on boats for the very reason that they are safer, maybe the pressurised ones aren't as safe but the origo type certainly seem to be especially with careless or absent minded people like mysef who have been known to leave the flap slightly open and lose all the metho to evaporation.

[Boblee]

Yep, Spent 3years and over 8500 miles cruising my Alberg 35 with a 2 burner converted over to odorless kerosene.
Burners are Swiss made.

The Kero sounds good, don't see it used much now days (heating etc) yeah sounds economical and probably safer, whats it like for blackening the pans etc
Last thing I had that used Kero was an old tilley lantern when first married with no power on the house.

[bartmac]

I've bought a small stove for my motorbike which uses petrol (pressurised)or shellite? as fuel...light it pump it and hey presto...We weren't impressed with the metho stove...blackened the pots etc and usually rubbed off on something....also cooking outside is best...in hot climate anyway

[Boblee]

Yeah thats our experience with the origo but when the sandflies hit it's a bit hard to cook on the barbq out back but for fish etc it's a case of plenty of bushman and get back inside asap.
While the butane is quicker etc it will go back to being an emergency measure.

[bartmac]

Sandflies.....hate the %^&$#@!!(*&%@$#!@%&*&^^%

Reading about them blighters....they lay an egg under your skin!!!!

[Boblee]

Seems to be some conjecture about what actually causes the sting/itch but piddling or spitting to soften the skin to lay eggs could be plausible?
Some people who have a reaction have a terrible time and if you get an overload they can make you pretty damn crook even when they normally aren't a real problem for you.
Been caught a couple of times with more than normal but even one is a pain literally, problem being by the time you feel one it's too late and there could have been dozens.
Strange they don't seem to worry the indigenous mob, whether due to the colour (they like light colour) or due to immunity or just tolerance but a real bugger when you find a good fishing spot as the tides dropping near the mud and they hit with a vengeance.
Another thing that can and has caused a problem is the March flies been a few people flown out due to bites from them and we have struck them 20k's from land.