ETEC-70

[Steve-Deb]

Hi guys.

Can anyone tell me if the ETEC-70 motor can be fitted safely to a 2013, ? If so are there special mounting issues to consider over the standard ETEC-60 motor? I know people have mounted 90hp outboards and I've read that the boat was trialled with a 70 but I was told by the seller that I couldn't mount a 70 because the transom wasn't made to cope.

This has probably been ask and answered in the past but I'm looking for something a little more contemporary

[Tomfoolery]

I know relatively little about the etecs compared to a large number of folks here, but from a quick review of the specs of the 60, 75, and 90 hp etec series, it looks like the only difference between the 75 and 90 hp versions is the power rating (with associated programming, injector differences, etc.), as they use the same bore and stroke, and same 3 cylinder block. Even the lower units have the same ratio, except for the 25" 90 hp, with a higher ratio.

The 60 and 75 are only available with a 20" shaft, and the 90 is also (in addition to the 25"), so that wouldn't be different.

Seems to me if you can install a 90, you can install a 75, since it appears to be the same unit. Just based on looking at Evinrude's web site, of course.

[seahouse]

Steve and Deb -

I have yet to hear from anyone who has a counterpoint to this, but my assessment of the transom integrity is that it will easily take much larger engines than have been installed on any Mac I've seen here to date.

The transom walls are thick, laminated, reinforced by glasswork, and are closely supported by the walls and shape of the adjacent well. Confirm this for yourself by standing on the motor cavitation plate and bouncing with your body weight, while observing the flexing that happens in the transom. You should see none.

Having said that, in an older boat where motor mounting has not been properly done and water infiltration has taken place, you might encounter a punky transom in need of reinforcing, but even for a stock motor.

Transom strength is one of the common considerations (there are several others, of course) when overpowering a boat (I've done this myself to power boats in the past, but have reinforced the transom in each case) but is not a concern on a Mac M, (nor on an X, as others here might say, but I have no first hand experience with them).

I went with the 60 for the simple reason that it was the largest that could be mounted and still maintain the warrantee of the boat.

It's good to be continuously aware of potential stability and handling issues when mounting a larger than recommended engine to a boat, but those are also the same issues to be conscious of no matter what engine is mounted on the back.

- Brian.

[DaveB]

Brian,
I agree and doing my new outboard, no one would put more than 50 hp on my MacX.
The MacM is rated for 60hp. tho BWY installs the 70 hp and with factory warrenty.
Many have put on the Suzuki 90 hp on the MacX and MacM.
The mounting can easy handle the HP but centerboard bounce on the MacX can lead to wear.
I see no reason for the MacM in daggerboard to increase to 90 HP.
Rudders up and Dagger board up, will plane like a powerboat.
That's just my 2cts. Many Utube Vidios showing the 90 hp Suzuki on both MacX and MacM.
What the MacX or M can't handle is high speed in waves over 2ft.
Boat isn't built for waves over 2 ft. under power past 15 knots.
Dave

Steve and Deb -

I have yet to hear from anyone who has a counterpoint to this, but my assessment of the transom integrity is that it will easily take much larger engines than have been installed on any Mac I've seen here to date.

The transom walls are thick, laminated, reinforced by glasswork, and are closely supported by the walls and shape of the adjacent well. Confirm this for yourself by standing on the motor cavitation plate and bouncing with your body weight, while observing the flexing that happens in the transom. You should see none.

Having said that, in an older boat where motor mounting has not been properly done and water infiltration has taken place, you might encounter a punky transom in need of reinforcing, but even for a stock motor.

Transom strength is one of the common considerations (there are several others, of course) when overpowering a boat (I've done this myself to power boats in the past, but have reinforced the transom in each case) but is not a concern on a Mac M, (nor on an X, as others here might say, but I have no first hand experience with them).

I went with the 60 for the simple reason that it was the largest that could be mounted and still maintain the warrantee of the boat.

It's good to be continuously aware of potential stability and handling issues when mounting a larger than recommended engine to a boat, but those are also the same issues to be conscious of no matter what engine is mounted on the back.

- Brian.

[mastreb]

I've done WOT with ballast in heavy seas with large period rollers without any problem, with the goal of keeping the boat between them.

It depends on the sea-state. I'd be very wary of doing that speed in 3 foot close period waves or any time there's slamming. If the daggerboard or centerboard were to drop at WOT in a turn you'd be in serious trouble.

[seahouse]

Dave - I guess I should have specified my dealer (and probably the vast majority of others) required a max of 60 hp for the warrantee.

[mastreb]

Steve, much heavier motors have been safely mounted to the MacGregor transom. The ETEC-75 is not significantly heavier than the Suzuki DF90 that BWY mounted stock. You'll have no problems with it.

The 2013 MacGregor is likely still warranteed for the next few months, but I wouldn't worry about violating the warranty. No significant warranty issues have ever popped up with these boats in the 1 year warranty period that I've ever heard of, and frankly anything that does happen to them is more easily fixed by the owner than dealing with a closed factory would be anyway. Here are the only things I can think of that could go wrong with a new MacGregor that would be more effectively dealt with by the factory:

1) Woven roving pattern appearing through the exterior hull. This should be fixed before boats are sold, but I have seen evidence of it on some blue hulls (where its more obvious).

2) Incompletely sealed deck seal or rub-rail coming off. This is a total PIA and if it happens it should be fixed by the factory. It's easy to check for by pouring water all the way around the top surface of the rub rail and then checking the interior carpet for leaks.

3) I've never heard of a layup problem with MacGregors, but it's possible. The daggerboard trunk at the deck and sole would be areas to inspect.

Everything else with these boats is trivially repairable by the owner and less hassle than trying to prosecute a warranty case.

Matt

[seahouse]

Agreed Matt-

It's likely because you are (were) so close to the factory that you would consider having the factory repair those things. If those things happened to me in my location, they would be handled and repaired by the dealer himself, and maybe with the factory supplying a replacement of a part, for example.

There were a number of (small) things that the dealer did, in fact, address for me, those things that I could easily remove and transport to him. Such as an imperfection in one of the rudders, leaking water bladder etc. If I had put a 140 hp motor on it, they would still have been covered (I expect...with a reputable dealer anyway).

Yeah – there were a few things that I was more comfortable doing myself too. I had to disassemble one thing to find the problem, (rain leak at the pump out) so it was more sensible that I just repair it (reseal) while I had it apart and not bother with the dealer, although I did tell him about it so they could do it differently and avoid the issue when doing that job in the future.

Of course the argument could (and would) be made that a larger motor would only directly affect certain things, and be totally unrelated to others on the boat. So really adding a larger motor would certainly not void a warrantee for everything else on the boat anyway.

I can't say that my dealer would have put a larger than 60 on my boat anyway - there might be some legal liability on his part. Maybe I would have had to buy it bare and haul it to an Evinrude dealer or something???

[vkmaynard]

Who are these dealers that will not do common sense work?

BWY will install a Suzuki 70 all day long. Seawind had a Suzuki 90 dealer installed in the last 1.5 years. Billy (XX) had a dealer installed 140 in 2001 with no problems.

Our dealer sold us a 90 in a crate with 6 year warranty.


Victor

[seahouse]

Hey Vic- I just phoned Dowsar in Hamilton (my dealer) to confirm. They will not install more than a 60 hp they say based on the information that has come from the factory. (Of course they lose money that way too, so there must be sound motivation for them not to).

Don't know exactly why it is, just that it is so…there might be a liability or insurance thing, which can vary with geography. I also know that subsequent owners of boats I had overpowered got flak when they went to insure them, but I never had a problem. But those were power boats where the max hp was clearly defined on the transom plate - that line appears to be less clearly-defined in this case, but I think in our litigious societies it is prudent for anyone in business along the line to err on the side of caution.
-B.

[mastreb]

MacGregor dealers are under a contract with the factory and cannot do things that violate that contract. With a used boat however you'll have the outboard engine dealer, not the MacGregor dealer, mount the outboard. Most if not all of those dealers will mount a motor on any hull they themselves deem capable of handling it because according to most states' laws, its the outboard dealer that accepts liability for engine related damage in that case. If they think the hull can take the pounding, is shaped for the speed, and the transom will support it, they'll mount the engine.

When I was looking at a Tattoo, I confirmed with an ETEC dealership that they would happily mount a 90 on a boat sold bare by the factory. It would likely have voided the Tattoo warranty, but frankly anything expensive to fix with these boats is all hanging off the transom anyway, so its the engine dealership's warranty that really matters.

Matt

[raycarlson]

Once you exceed a boat length of 25 feet the coast guard requirements change regarding a capacity plate on hull which states a max number of persons and a horsepower rating for the transom. So there is no regulation existing that would lead to an insurance or engine manufacturer to worry about any liability issues. The biggest factor with mac dealers not wanting to install a larger motor is likely they don't want to have to lose out on profits from motor sales so the issue with the Factory Warranty is the easiest excuse to use to keep those profits inhouse, and after 2008 the mac factory entered into a deal with evinrude for better pricing on the 60hp for volume sales which im sure was passed on to the independent dealers if they could convince the customer to have that motor mounted. I've never read any forum or posting anywhere that any mac X-M has had a transom failure of any sort due to excessive h.p. or weight on the transom,so there is really no precedence for the factory or dealers to be concerned with a 60hp limitation which before the agreement to use the 60 etec, was a 50hp limit when they sold tohutsu-nissan motors back when I purchased my boat.

[Sea Wind]

My 2013 Suzuki 90 was installed by a dealer in my 2001 X. I have a standard 3 year warranty. No wedges were used/recommended. This is a well-known dealer that specializes in selling and repowering California skiffs, it is also one of the few Suzuki dealers in the eastern shore of the Chesapeake bay. They mentioned that our boats have very strong transoms and if the boat is abused with these engines (i.e. pounding hard on waves), he expects that the hull will be damaged before the transom. They took away the old Tohatsu 90, installed and rerouted the new cables and controls.

[Starscream]

My 2013 Suzuki 90 was installed by a dealer in my 2001 X. I have a standard 3 year warranty. No wedges were used/recommended. This is a well-known dealer that specializes in selling and repowering California skiffs, it is also one of the few Suzuki dealers in the eastern shore of the Chesapeake bay. They mentioned that our boats have very strong transoms and if the boat is abused with these engines (i.e. pounding hard on waves), he expects that the hull will be damaged before the transom. They took away the old Tohatsu 90, installed and rerouted the new cables and controls.

Question on the wedges: Sea Wind are you happy with the performance without a wedge? I have seen some comments that the wedges are required for the M but not the X and I want to understand exactly what they do and why. I am planning to go for the ETEC90 in the spring and am not sure if I want wedges or not. Did you add any reinforcements or plates to distribute the load on the transom?

Any advice is appreciated!

[Sea Wind]

The wedges add about 5 degrees so you get on a plane faster, I think that some mac owners add then simply as reinforcement. I only have oversized washers with no other reinforcements. In my opinion, wedges only benefit smaller engines but for a 70 or 90 it is a marginal effect for getting on a plane or a speed increase. Not sure about the difference in transom angle between X and M models.