Where to mount VHF

[mastreb]

I need some advice on where to mount my VHF. We've used a handheld thus far which has been fine in San Diego bay but we're planning to range quite a bit further now, so a better unit with hardwired power was needed.

I bought the SIMRAD RS-35 because it has receive-only AIS that I can hook into my chartplotter to show the commercial vessels on screen, and DSC, and everything else anyone ever dumped into a VHF for a reasonable $300. It also has an available remote handset that makes it useful from anywhere on the boat, and you can use the handset to communicate with the head unit, which I figure will be handy for anchoring ops.

But where to mount it? The "traditional" location of a VHF on a sailboat is the port overhead just inside the companionway on an inverted binnacle mount. But I'm tall and really do not like anything near the headliner because I'll invariably hit it climbing in and out of the aft berth.

I'm strongly considering flush mounting it in the transom well just under the helm seat on the port side. It would be protected from sun, rain, and most weather by the helm seat. It would be vulnerable to people hitting it when transiting through the stern, but that's mostly done to the port side where the swim ladder is.

In this location, it would always be immediately available to the helmsman, but I'm worried about the outside exposure.

I'm mounting an 8' antenna on a rail mount on the mast carrier bracket, so the unit would have a very short coax run in this location as well, although that's not a particularly important concern. The antenna will fold over into the cockpit and be lashed to the mast or hang directly down next to the motor while trailering.

Any thoughts?

[Catigale]

Matt.,..I like that idea. For us weekend cruisers , you could cover it with a 1 gallon ziplock bag to protect it (both water and UV are concerns in your venue)

One last concern is theft. It would be a tempting target for someone in mast up storage. Can you disconnect it quickly and take home with you?

[JohnCFI]

I have the Standard Horizon 2100, which also has AIS. I mounted the base over the table on my where I also have my backup GPS fitted plus a few other bits. That gives good access from the cabin, I then fitted the CM30 remote station on the Pedestal, that can be unplugged just leaving a socket on view. Every one of the radios features can be accessed from the Remote..

[Tomfoolery]

In this location, it would always be immediately available to the helmsman, but I'm worried about the outside exposure.

My last boat had the VHF mounted in the binnacle, in the sun and weather, with no cover. It was fine when I replaced it, when it was about 11 years old, for a newer unit with DSC, and in fact I still have it as a backup. While it certainly makes sense to protect it, I've found that they're not all that delicate, either, including the new Standard Horizon unit I replaced it with, which is still going strong with the new owner.

I'm mounting an 8' antenna on a rail mount on the mast carrier bracket, so the unit would have a very short coax run in this location as well, although that's not a particularly important concern. The antenna will fold over into the cockpit and be lashed to the mast or hang directly down next to the motor while trailering.

Well, you know someone is going to ask, so it might as well be me - why not at the top of the mast? Height above the water will give you a better range increase than a higher gain antenna (assuming 6dB for a big FG antenna). You'd go from something like 4.1 miles (theoretical) mounted to the rail to 7.3 miles by just putting it at the top, though cheap coax and connectors can whittle that down, of course. That's to the surface of the water, of course, and communicating with a boat similarly equipped (same antenna height) would double that range. A base station, with a tower, further still.

And on a related note, a big 6dB antenna with have a flatter radiation pattern (up/down) than a 3dB, hence the higher gain. BUT, when heeling, the horizon will be seeing the weaker part of the lobe (like a nav light when the boat is heeled), so a higher gain antenna may actually result in less range when heeling than a lower gain, base-loaded stainless whip type.

And the FB units are real big.

Just sayin'.

[raycarlson]

Totally agree, why even waste the time and money. just stay with the handheld, the only thing you gain with the fullsize unit is the ais which with the short range antenna you intend to use you will be seeing any large ships the same time your unit reads them anyway. Not mast mounting is wasteing all its features, especially if your going to be venturing further out now. wouldn't you value that extra 20-30 miles of range when your in a situation of some sort way out yonder??

[davidbourne]

Mastreb,

Can you and your crew members hear it, get to it, read the display, and easily use it?

The helm seat location does not fit those criteria for me. Does your remote depend on batteries? That's a failure point because I can never seem to keep everything charged. I have a backup handheld and it was the first thing to die on my last trip.

I have mine in the location you mentioned by the port companionway and it's Ok. It's nice to have a crew member make a call when your hands are busy.

My future ideal location is to mount it near the mast, over the starboard daggerboard bulkhead. This is the shortest cable run for a future stainless whip antenna mounted to the mast.

I will use a full featured remote at the helm that has a speaker and all the controls. It's also a an intercom between devices.

The remote is a Standard Horizon RAM3 Remote Mic
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... id=1133628

The VHF is a Standard Horizon GX2150 AIS+
http://www.standardhorizon.com/indexVS. ... Archived=0

I'm connecting this to my Garmin Chartplotter via a hacked Cat5 computer data cable. I'm not sure of the cable and connector's (RJ45) longevity on water, but it allows me to disconnect the radio and chartplotter easily when I store the boat at my local yard.

[mastreb]

Matt.,..I like that idea. For us weekend cruisers , you could cover it with a 1 gallon ziplock bag to protect it (both water and UV are concerns in your venue)

One last concern is theft. It would be a tempting target for someone in mast up storage. Can you disconnect it quickly and take home with you?

Well, gosh I'd not considered theft. Yes, it's eye-level visible as you walk or drive past. The Marina has 24/7 security, and they always seem to walk by whenever I'm aboard to check things out. Sometimes they'll help pull your helm wheel as well

[mastreb]

Well, you know someone is going to ask, so it might as well be me - why not at the top of the mast?

Just sayin'.

Trailering complication and through-deck fittings are the reason I've decided not to put anything in the mast. I do trailer quite a bit (although less now in mast-up storage) and every cable you put in the mast is serious complication for trailering. I'll test my range while we're out on this Catalina trip. I should be able to raise Avalon harbor master from Point Loma, and if so, that's all the range I'll need with our cruising. If not, well, it'll have to migrate up to the top of the mast.

[mastreb]

Mastreb,

Can you and your crew members hear it, get to it, read the display, and easily use it?

The helm seat location does not fit those criteria for me. Does your remote depend on batteries? That's a failure point because I can never seem to keep everything charged. I have a backup handheld and it was the first thing to die on my last trip.

That's a good point. I'll have to strongly consider that. My biggest issue with the in-cabin location is that I always need it at the helm. Of course the remote can solve that problem easily, which is what it's for, but then I couldn't do anchoring operations at the helm and the bow.

Matt

[Russ]

Well, you know someone is going to ask, so it might as well be me - why not at the top of the mast? Height above the water will give you a better range increase than a higher gain antenna (assuming 6dB for a big FG antenna). You'd go from something like 7 miles (theoretical) mounted to the rail to 50 miles by just putting it at the top, though cheap coax and connectors can whittle that down, of course.

And on a related note, a big 6dB antenna with have a flatter radiation pattern (up/down) than a 3dB, hence the higher gain. BUT, when heeling, the horizon will be seeing the weaker part of the lobe (like a nav light when the boat is heeled), so a higher gain antenna may actually result in less range when heeling than a lower gain, base-loaded stainless whip type.

And the FB units are real big.

Just sayin'.

Tom, I'm glad you mentioned this, because I'm tired of always being the one. All your points were made better than I could. The only reason I can see for deck mounting the antenna is if you are going to run a lot with mast down. If you go to a marina and look up, you will rarely ever see a sailboat with a deck mounted antenna. There's a reason most are on top of the mast.

Matt, I assume you bought that unit for long range comms and AIS integration with the GPS, not to be at the helm because you already have a hand held VHF for that. The optional handset for that unit is pretty cool. It's wireless and therefore the handset can be at the helm providing a hands free walkie talkie-like handset anywhere within 100m of the base with full 25 watts power available from the base. For another $150, I'd buy that also. With the remote handset, I don't see the point in cluttering up your helm seat with wires and such.

So I mounted my VHF at the bulkhead next to the mirror (See below). The mast antenna wire is very direct with only one deck connector. It's out of the way and easy to use in the cabin. In your case, the handset would connect to it anywhere on the boat.

[Tomfoolery]

I have a RAM mic that I've never installed, for an older style Standard Horizon (the one I mentioned above), and it uses a cable with plug. Maybe that would be a good solution for your needs, hardwired with an umbilical, if they still make that style. Puts the mic at the helm, but the radio down below, out of the weather and away from prying eyes.

I figured you had your reasons for not wanting it on the mast. I just had to ask, though.

FWIW, mine is at the top of the mast, and a PO installed it with an adjustable mount, so I fold it back along the mast when I need it to be shorter. The plug connection is a potential problem area, of course, but they used gold-plated connections, and so far I haven't had a problem, though I'm sure the mere presence of another connection attenuates the signal a little. But it's what I have, so it's what I use. Well, that, and a hand-held, which is my main radio, as I don't ever seem to be far enough away from anyone I need to talk to, including the USCG. So far . . .

[RobertB]

I installed to the starboard side of the companionway ceiling - needed to make a wooden adapter under the faceplate to deal with the slight contour. I have a remote handset (Standard Horizon) that I mounted on the pedestal. Main reason I did not consider the area over the front dinette seat is the length of power and antenna cable runs. Plus, in hindsight, this area is prone to getting wet occasionally. Mounted the antenna to the hull slightly below the aft starboard cleat.

[Tomfoolery]

The only reason I can see for deck mounting the antenna is if you are going to run a lot with mast down. If you go to a marina and look up, you will rarely ever see a sailboat with a deck mounted antenna. There's a reason most are on top of the mast.

The PO of my boat had a rail-mounted antenna, FG I think, with an alternate cable run from it at the stern rail to the radio at the companionway (port side, in fact ) so they could pick which one to use - mast or rail. They did a lot of Erie Canal cruising, so I can see why they had a decent antenna mounted to the rail, but when I got the boat, the antenna was removed (buried inside the boat, along with tons of other crap) and the cable cut flush at the deck fitting. Only the mast antenna and wiring were intact. That's consistent with configuring and using the boat as either a power boat or a sailboat - different equipment for different jobs.

My FIL recently gave me an emergency antenna with cable (comes as a complete kit), so I can connect that to the fixed radio if I need it when the mast is down, or off the boat completely. I rely on the hand-held, but if I need the other radio, I have that option. The emergency antenna stays in its package, on the boat, so it's there should I ever need it. But being super short, it's not going to have the range (unity gain, and low elevation) a good quality fixed antenna would have, which are typically 3dB gain or more. But it's better than nothing.

[Russ]

Trailering complication and through-deck fittings are the reason I've decided not to put anything in the mast. I do trailer quite a bit (although less now in mast-up storage) and every cable you put in the mast is serious complication for trailering. I'll test my range while we're out on this Catalina trip.

Test it in rough, rolling seas and/or extreme healing. That's when the high gain, "flatter radiation pattern (up/down)" will direct your 25 watts at the sea and the sky. It is the healing that makes a wider 3db pattern higher up better suited for sailboats. As an added bonus, it gets the signal over the top of high swells. There is nothing wrong with deck mounting, but I want the best performance I can get and we are blessed with altitude for mounting.[/rant]
It takes me 2 minutes to screw the antenna on top of the mast and 10 seconds to screw the connector into the deck. I don't see compromising range and safety for convenience at rigging time. Especially if you are in mast up storage it's a non-issue.

My biggest issue with the in-cabin location is that I always need it at the helm. Of course the remote can solve that problem easily, which is what it's for, but then I couldn't do anchoring operations at the helm and the bow.

Interesting that you are planning on using the handheld for bow intercom. I'm trying to picture how that works in my mind. When I'm on the deck, my hands are busy. So the handheld would be one way listening only. Knowing myself as a klutz, I'd also drop the handheld in the sea.
After 40 years of sailing and anchoring, I've learned that in a heavy howling wind, the best communication with the helm from the bow is hand signals. I love technology, but the KISS system works best for me. I'd try a cheap $25 walkie talkie set to communicate with the bow if a high tech system was desired. Less expensive when I drop it overboard.

--Russ

[Russ]

I'm connecting this to my Garmin Chartplotter via a hacked Cat5 computer data cable. I'm not sure of the cable and connector's (RJ45) longevity on water, but it allows me to disconnect the radio and chartplotter easily when I store the boat at my local yard.

The problem with water is the connectors corroding. Also, solid wire does not hold up well in high vibration environments like boats.
The solution is to use stranded CAT5 cable. Most quality patch cables are stranded wire. If you can't seal the connectors from water, you can use gel filled (direct burial) cable. It has a silicone gel that keeps water out of connectors. Sounds like you "hacked" the cable and aren't using RJ45 connectors. In that case, I would solder and heat shrink and forget about it.

With that said, I ran solid core CAT5 up my mast and has not been an problem for the past few years.

--Russ