Coastal Sailing Capabilities

[Catigale]

The concept of the unsinkable bleach bottle is neat but just not applicable in heavy seas. I would rather be in a heavy keelboat with an unsinkable life raft than a Mac offshore.


A light boat like a Mac will just not be controllable, and has little redundancy in the event of failure of things like fouls or steering gear.

These are just not offshore boats, period.

[Three Gypsies]

I will be the first to admit I screw up and put us in harms way , not on purpose , but it happens . I am not going to run for a marina every time I see a dark cloud on the horizon . If I did we couldn't get anywhere .
We are out here ! We have done two 1,000 mile cruises last year , this year we are 1,696 miles into this cruise .
Our Mac has proven herself to be a stout ship , able to take the storms with the best of them . She has provided us a comfortable place to live while we cruise the Florida coastline .
After this cruise we plan to do some inland cruising up into Tennessee , Kentucky and Louisiana . We might do the loop after that .
People can say what they want . I have proven the boat is a seaworthy ship .

Life is full of risks and dangers . So while some of you sit on the couch and complain , the Admiral and I are out exploring Gods Earth in our little bleach bottle .

[JohnCFI]

I certainly admire your spirit of adventure, and I also hope that it never ever goes bad for you.

But do please consider the other lives you will put at risk if/when it does....

It is not just your ass on the line, because when you call 'mayday' others will feel obliged to try to rescue you. You have the responsibility as captain, but remember that if for instance you survived, and a member of your crew, or a rescuing crew did not, then a court of law would most likely be determining your level of liability, competence, decision making and preparedness, and given your tales of near misses so far, I think you would be found seriously at fault.

Please forgive my bluntness, but this needed to be said. As a former Emergency Services worker, I would feel remiss if I had not voiced my concern.

[dlandersson]

Actually, no. You have demonstrated that your Mac can survive conditions - on occasion - that are above and beyond the design specs. You have bet your life on those occasions. Hate to see your luck run out on a future occasion.

I have proven the boat is a seaworthy ship.

[Three Gypsies]

I certainly admire your spirit of adventure, and I also hope that it never ever goes bad for you.

But do please consider the other lives you will put at risk if/when it does....

It is not just your ass on the line, because when you call 'mayday' others will feel obliged to try to rescue you. You have the responsibility as captain, but remember that if for instance you survived, and a member of your crew, or a rescuing crew did not, then a court of law would most likely be determining your level of liability, competence, decision making and preparedness, and given your tales of near misses so far, I think you would be found seriously at fault.

Please forgive my bluntness, but this needed to be said. As a former Emergency Services worker, I would feel remiss if I had not voiced my concern.

I would never intentionally put us in harms way . I try to come down on the side of caution , whenever possible . We have postponed our departure several times, in these cruises , due to weather and trying to stay safe . We sat in Carrabelle for weeks waiting on favorable wind and weather , just to get a professionals blessing to leave and get caught in a bad storm . The weather went bad in the night , two other boats were lost . The Captain we were consulting with didn't see it coming , She said it would be a good crossing . Weather is not an exact science !

We are planning to depart Key West tomorrow , I have checked NOAA and the weather channel , several times already . There is no perfect weather window and even if one was predicted it could go bad in a hurry , such as our Carrabelle crossing .

Don't get me wrong , I would rather keep us safe and keep our boat right side up , than foolishly depart in bad weather , but it happens . Tomorrow is some 10 mph winds on the nose 30% chance of rain , isolated thunderstorms . The same prediction for weeks to come . If nothing changes we will depart , however one of those isolated thunderstorms 'might' get us with severe wind gusts and lightning , its a chance we have to take , or stay on the couch .

Life is a calculated risk , I prefer to take some risk and go exploring than sit on the couch and pretend I am being safe. I do not wish to risk my life , the Admirals life , or the dogs life , not to mention the people who might have to answer our mayday call , so I will exercise caution , but still get out there .

[JohnCFI]

I'm glad you took that well, I'm never happy criticising like that.

polite suggestions if I may (which you may already have done):-

At sea (certainly beyond the harbour) wear a PFD on deck always
Does the dog have a life-jacket (they swim OK but tire soon)
If you don't already have one, get an EPIRB/PLB with onboard GPS
Make sure you have a serviceable Life-raft (not a dinghy)
Always have a prepared Ditch bag, if pos with a VHF in it
consider a personal flare pack in the ditch bag

Hopefully you will never need any of it, but if you do, you will increase you chances of survival.

[SKIPPER2C]

Life is a calculated risk , I prefer to take some risk and go exploring than sit on the couch and pretend I am being safe. I do not wish to risk my life , the Admirals life , or the dogs life , not to mention the people who might have to answer our mayday call , so I will exercise caution , but still get out there .

Way to go "Three Gypsies"

This spirit is what makes the humankind the ruler of the earth.
May GOD be with u and your loved ones on your adventure.

Renier

[Three Gypsies]

Life is a calculated risk , I prefer to take some risk and go exploring than sit on the couch and pretend I am being safe. I do not wish to risk my life , the Admirals life , or the dogs life , not to mention the people who might have to answer our mayday call , so I will exercise caution , but still get out there .

Way to go "Three Gypsies"

This spirit is what makes the humankind the ruler of the earth.
May GOD be with u and your loved ones on your adventure.

Renier

Thanks Renier !

[Ixneigh]

I don't consider the gulf to be offshore or blue water. Its shallow for the most part. Not deep ocean.
these boats are fine for overnight trips across water like that, with shelter near at hand. Bahamas same way.
unless its really horrible I don't consider it a misuse of the boat. Btw having your engine coming out of the water isn't going it much good.
the problem with the bleach bottle anology is that even though it may stay on the surface it is uninhabitable if swamped.
more then likely a swamped mac would break up quickly anyway. Those heavy keel boats, if properly constructed will take being rolled, falling off the face of a steep breaking wave, being pooped by following seas etc. They are made to run off safely if needed. Even sub 20 ft keelboats can be blue water boats. Look at Trekka.
there is a book called heavy weather sailing by c alridge coles. Its a great read.
Ix

[fouz]

Is the gulf not blue water cause of depth? do you consider it safer and why.
Sinking in 20 ft of water is no different than 3 miles.
Waves come alittle faster and higher in the shallower water if I'm not mistaken.

Like three gypsies was saying, Mobile bay can get real nasty. 12' depth on avg all the way across. Don't take much wind to get some nasty wave conditions.

[mastreb]

The term "blue water" refers to sailing grounds farther than one day's journey from the coast, out where there is no safe harbor; not to any particular depth of water. We do Catalina crossings routinely, and that water is 2500 feet deep, but there's no point at which you're more than 4 hours from land at 5 knots, which is what makes it a safe crossing for small boats.

Coastal boats are boats that cannot make way in routine heavy seas. I'm not counting rogue waves--there are rogue waves that no boat can stand up to. Whether or not a boat can survive a storm as a lifeboat is irrelevant if they can't avoid shoals and rocks which would break them up.

I've made way in some pretty heavy seas (6' - 10') in our Mac during a Catalina crossing that we aborted because of said seas. It's not pleasant. We weren't going to roll (that much was clear) and the boat is light enough that it surfs the following waves rather than being swamped. Having experienced it, I will say I do not think a Mac would ever be swamped by heavy following seas. We never took any water into the cockpit, rather the stern lifts with the wave and is propelled by it.

I was able to make way both with and against the waves, and while it was possible to make way perpendicular to them, the rolling is particularly unpleasant. That said there was no point at which I felt the boat would have been capsized by the seas, even when we were doing 60+ degree rolls. The boat _really_ hardens up suddenly around 60 degrees, but it will rock like a pendulum from 60 to 60. Even when I stupidly went up to the mast to catch a loose halyard and could feel my weight pulling the boat over in a roll, it never felt as though it could possibly capsize.

The motor ventilated every time we crossed a wave crest.

The excess horsepower of a powersailor's engine works well to keep you exactly where you want to be in heavy seas, which is an option most keelboats don't actually have because they lack the power move suddenly. If you work with the seas, they will be kind to you. If you try to stick to a heading no matter what, they will beat you senseless.

The admiral was concerned and the kids were in a state of abject terror. When you're in a wave trough you can't see over, it's a bit worrisome irrespective of the boat's capability.

Matt

[Catigale]

The excess horsepower of a powersailor's engine works well to keep you exactly where you want

Until that engine fails and you cannot sail due to the lack of inertia.

A boat which requires a running motor to make way is not a safe boat offshore.

[WASP18]

Mastreb:

If you choose the East Coast to become a bi-coastal sailor, consider Narragansett Bay in Rhode Island as a home base. Check it out on a map. The Bay is like a huge lake with brakish water. From there, you can head out toward open ocean and the Cape and islands. Read up and you'll see why Newport was chosen as a mecca for sailing and a place for the wealthy to summer. The temperature in Providence, RI or in
Boston could be 90 degrees and Newport will be 71. There's always a cool breeze blowing and every afternoon around 3 pm, a southwest wind kicks in to take you home.

Newport can be a fog area, yet if you sail north toward Providence, it's mostly clear. Rhode Island is a boater friendly state and there are several ramps where you can launch. Adding to this, you can pull into historic towns like Bristol or Warren, tie up and go shopping and eating at reasonable prices. These places will take you back in history once you see the brick and old stone buildings. Very quaint but most importantly, the area is NOT a resort like Cape Cod (except Newport). It's not overrun with tourists simply because many of the boaters live here. It's their home year round and boating is a way of life. It's probably the best kept secret in New England.

People in Connecticut travel to Rhode Island's south coast beaches for vacation rather than heading for the crowded Cape. Something to think about.

[SKIPPER2C]

by mastreb » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:49 pm


I've made way in some pretty heavy seas (6' - 10') in our Mac during a Catalina crossing that we aborted because of said seas. It's not pleasant. We weren't going to roll (that much was clear) and the boat is light enough that it surfs the following waves rather than being swamped. Having experienced it, I will say I do not think a Mac would ever be swamped by heavy following seas. We never took any water into the cockpit, rather the stern lifts with the wave and is propelled by it.

I was able to make way both with and against the waves, and while it was possible to make way perpendicular to them, the rolling is particularly unpleasant. That said there was no point at which I felt the boat would have been capsized by the seas, even when we were doing 60+ degree rolls. The boat _really_ hardens up suddenly around 60 degrees, but it will rock like a pendulum from 60 to 60. Even when I stupidly went up to the mast to catch a loose halyard and could feel my weight pulling the boat over in a roll, it never felt as though it could possibly capsize.

The motor ventilated every time we crossed a wave crest.

The excess horsepower of a powersailor's engine works well to keep you exactly where you want to be in heavy seas, which is an option most keelboats don't actually have because they lack the power move suddenly. If you work with the seas, they will be kind to you. If you try to stick to a heading no matter what, they will beat you senseless.

The admiral was concerned and the kids were in a state of abject terror. When you're in a wave trough you can't see over, it's a bit worrisome irrespective of the boat's capability.

Matt

The shallower it gets the more anxious I get.
Everyone makes a big deal about the Mac "blue water" ability but what about keelboats "shallow reefs" ability.
Do u think more boats get in trouble in the open sea or grounding on reefs or in the shallow
It all boils to seamanship and if u are prepared and ready to negotiate what live throw to u, is it in u car, plane, boat, marriage, home ..................

I think the word I am looking for is ATTITUDE
Renier
Do not let perceptions get in the way of living your live to the full. U only have ONE chance at it.

[Three Gypsies]

A while back I watched a video by Roger MacGregor , where He had a Mac out in a gale , tremendous wind and very tall waves , a they were under sail .
On the video Roger said , " We don't recommend sailing in these conditions , but its nice to know the boat is capable of doing it"

That about sums it up . I don't plan to take my family and my boat in harms way , but if it happens , its nice to know the boat is capable .

I have always been told the Atlantic is calmer than the Gulf , by loopers who have done both . I have heard , many times, the roughest part of the loop is the Gulf crossing .