still stumped adjusting shrouds

[seahouse]

I am really disappointed with the Loos gauge. It often gives different readings when you take several readings at the same shroud length.

Hey Mika-

Sounds like there is excessive friction at the gauge pointer. You might find it will run more smoothly and give more repeatable results if you lubricate the slot and slider with silicone grease. Mine came dry when it was new.

[dlandersson]

I was surprised to find bolts and nuts in the port/starboard Johnson plates next to the chain plates - aren't they supposed to have clevis pins?

Also, since the chain plates/Johnson plates are a bit low (my silp/dock is a fixed height) what is the best way to work on them?

[RobertB]

I was surprised to find bolts and nuts in the port/starboard Johnson plates next to the chain plates - aren't they supposed to have clevis pins?

Also, since the chain plates/Johnson plates are a bit low (my silp/dock is a fixed height) what is the best way to work on them?

Yes, should have clevis pins.

Too low to work - try yoga

[seahouse]

I am really disappointed with the Loos gauge. It often gives different readings when you take several readings at the same shroud length.

Also, when you make a measurement your presence on deck interferes with the actual tension on the shroud.

Even slight wave action, a breeze, or someone moving around on the boat can cause considerable variation in the readings. Confirm this for your self by rocking the boat back and forth with your weight with the gauge on the shroud. You can get a 50-60 lbs+ variation in reading from this source alone.

I thought I had a port-starboard tension asymmetry until I realized that the weight of the admiral (in the cockpit) and I, together on one side, were causing a slight list. This causes the shrouds on the low side to go slacker, and the high side to tighten up by a surprising amount.

Doing this also gave me a real-life appreciation of how the geometry of the shrouds permit small changes in position to leverage large changes in the tensional forces on the shroud.

[DaveC426913]

I am really disappointed with the Loos gauge. It often gives different readings when you take several readings at the same shroud length.

Also, when you make a measurement your presence on deck interferes with the actual tension on the shroud.

Even slight wave action, a breeze, or someone moving around on the boat can cause considerable variation in the readings. Confirm this for your self by rocking the boa

I don't think either of these are the fault of the gauge. Certainly seahouse's isn't, but I don't really think Mika's is either. We are attempting to a measure a highly dynamic value here. Simple physics dictates that the values will change depending on how you set up your measurement parameters, and your readings will only be as consistent as your procedure.

The key to the accuracy of any tool is to eliminate variables and standardize procedure.

[ALX357]

Re: Rigging Adjustment Tool

A pair of pointed awls works great, cheaper and can adjust the tension without losing positive connection. By using the awls you never let the stay go, whether loosening or tightening the rigging. The welding clamp thingy looks ok, but you will have to trust its ability ( and momentarily yours ) to maintain full tension and hold up the mast while it is being used, until you re-pin the adjusters.
Seems a real risk that the welding clamp pin that you put into the folded adjuster tang can only go into the hole on one side, and only a short distance until it hits the inner adjuster, in order not to impede the movement of the interior tang adjuster plate. With an unbalanced one side pin grab, it could easily slip or pop out and let the stay go completely. Using the twin awls method, you "awl"-ways have full positive pinning of at least one if not both steel awls each thru at least two of the three lined up holes of both the adjuster parts.
Adjustments with the awls is incremental, one Vernier step each time - that's the best way to fine tune rigging tension.

[ALX357]

I have mentioned this before, a couple of years ago.... You can tension or relieve the standard Mac adjusters on the side-stays, both inner and outer, or upper and lower, with just TWO scratch-awls. Buy two of them at a hardware store to cut down on cost. If they get a but rusty, steel wool them or sand them clean. A scratch awl is a tapered, smooth spike with a handle, like an ice-pick, but shorter. Be sure the awls have sharp points and will fit all the way into an adjuster hole.

It takes a bit of imagination and intelligence to use them effectively, but you can actually re-tension the stays and unpin/re-pin them without lowering the mast, or guessing, or trying to remember what holes etc, and without even losing the tension on the stay you are adjusting.

Procedure:
Find an unfilled hole, (one that doesn't have the pin in it already of course) that goes thru both the outer rack and inner rack of the adjuster. It won't be a fully open hole all the way thru, by definition - that hole has a pin in it. But there will be another hole thru that is partially open, in the direction that tightens the stay initially, like a half-moon or three-quarter moon. Push the awl into that hole until it jams tightly, then work it by spinning it until it goes in a little further. At some point, this will relieve the tension on the PIN, and then you can un-ring-ding it and pull it out. You have to be tightening the rig slightly to relieve the pressure on the pin initially, to take it out. I undo the ring-ding in advance if on the trailer, because the mast can't be shaken by wave motion. Keep the awl pushed in tightly, and now that the pin is out, the adjuster center piece is freer to move, and you can work the awl all the way into the hole where it is. Now find another hole thru that will move the center plate of the adjuster in the correct direction to loosen or tighten the mast, If you are loosening, you should put the OTHER awl in the hole the pin came out of. It will now be too tight there to put the awl in all the way, and this is where you have to keep your wits about you. You will be pushing in one awl, progressively and likewise be taking one out the same amount, alternately, to keep control of the rig, but move the adjuster plate to the next full hole where a pin can hold it. If one full hole adjustment is not enough, you can keep going with the awls until it is correct. To check the tension, make sure the awl is all the way in the hole you believe is correct, or the one you are testing for tension, and use whatever method you want, gauge, or twang it, or just use your hand to feel the tightness etc. The awl will stay in because its shaft is perfectly cylindrical when past the tapering of the pointed end, and will not work loose or come out without some effort. Once you get the tension right, the next move is to get the awl out and the PIN in that hole instead. Same procedure, put the OTHER awl into a hole that will tension the rig even a bit more, and then while holding it halfway in, pull the other awl, the one in the now correct pin hole, out and put the pin in its place, and ring-ding it. Then pull the half-inserted awl out and you're done.
Forgive the overly complicated explanation instructions, but just in case someone does not get it right away by looking at the adjuster and having the two awls in hand ........

I ran a string thru holes i drilled in the handles of the adjusters, to keep them tethered together and make it less likely to drop one over the side while doing this procedure.

This works better than the wierd vice grip contraptions that I see, which depend on finding completely empty holes all the way thru, which are only found at the far ends of the adjuster where the center plate and outer rack do not overlap. Sometimes that will not be the situation anyway. In that case, you have to trust the pegs on the vice grip type adjuster to stay in the holes only partially where it cant go thu all the way, and of course, you have to have a clear hole in the top of the center adjuster plate. The only time the two-awl method won't work, is if the adjuster is maxed out with the pin in the top hole of the outer rack and the bottom hole of the inner plate. Your rig should not be like that anyway, or would be sloppy loose if it were.

[mikedoz1]

Hi Torontonians, I made the backstage adjustable by first taking the backstage cable off and having it shortened by six feet at West Marine, (be sure to have them make an eye again). I then purchased from Svendsens Marine here in the SF Bay Area a "Lewmar 50mm synchro fiddle block with a Becket and cam" and then a "Lewmar 50 mm fiddle block. Attach the fiddle block with the cam to the where the backstay was attached to the boat, and the other fiddle block is attached to the backstage cable. Rig the two blocks with 5/16 rope and you have your adjustable backstage. Be careful when you tension the backstage, those pulleys generate tremendous force, and easily bend the mast. Like I said earlier, with the adjustable backstage, I can easily singlehand attach the forestay, I have a rollerfurler on mine and it is so easy now to raise and set. I haven't noticed any change on the shroud tension from doing the changeover, and if you get any mast shutter (which I haven't experienced yet) you could tighten down the backstage to stop it. I'm taking her out tomorrow, I will take a picture of the setup and try to download it in here. Mike

[ALX357]

"Backstage" = backstay .... like the forestay

[island808]

I just started setting up my rigging to sail. All of a sudden my shrouds are loose. All of them. They we tight when i was practicing in the yard. Oh well. Have a new forestay and electric lift slip, so i started making adjustments since i dont have to raise and lower the mast every time i go out.

Curious as to what i did to make my shrouds loose. I mean, i havent touched them. Just shortened my forestay an inch maybe.

Well, at least now i know how to adjust them and a half dozen opinions as to how much.

[Catigale]

It is very easy to have a thimble kinked in the verniers and think you have things right, only to suddenly find looseness when it unkinks. The good news is the verniers are tough and wont be damaged by this.

Ive done this many times.

[island808]

Finally got everything adjusted "right" (as right as i can figure). Shrouds tight, mast has the right lean backwards but not to the side. Much nicer. Put up my sails on water for the first time. Woooo. Gettin there.

Just did the ol lean back the mast and adjust. Did it from top side too. No problems... Didnt drop any rings. Used my perfectly symmetrical baby stays to judge which side was tighter.

Guy with a 30+ foot keel boat wants to come test mine out. Overheard him describing it to his wife/sister/girlfriend... W/e. came over to ask for a tour... At a later date when neither of us were ready to cast off. We're berth neighbors.
Sounded like he was being positive about it.

Also a good reminder that just because you cant hear over your engine, doesn't mean someone 100 yards away cant hear you yelling over your engine perfectly while waiting for their ballast to fill at anchor.

[mikedoz1]

Backstay was what I meant, auto correct on my handheld got the better of me.

[Phil M]

Yeah, Hi Whip, that was me - I posted that thingy deal I found in the boat right after I brought it home. It was a pipe with two screws sticking out. I never did use it. I prefer to use the mast raising winch and lower the mast just a little bit cuz the MRS has baby stays that keep the mast in place while you reset those "Johnson things" or whatever their called (to me it's a turnbuckle) it's real easy that way and no one gets hurt.
I'm sorry but I already removed that picture from the photobucket - it did not look like anyone was interested in that post anymore.
If you must do this with the mast up you can also use a piece of wood stick with two screws in it. (I'm surprised any of the older boats have these - I would have figured you guys all for turnbuckles).

If no one puts up any pictures here I will take a new one and post it.

Loosen the shrouds by lowering the mast with the mast raising system - Good idea. I also struggled with how to tighten the stays.