Does your boat have a handedness?? (preferred tack)

[Ixneigh]

Are the stock sails really that low quality to be ruined after one bout of I dont feel like reefing-itis??
Ix

[BOAT]

Sorry, 'boat' sails the same on either side - no difference - even shifting weight does not seem to make much of a difference on 'boat', but I completely believe you guys that are saying that your boats are acting all bipolar and stuff - I'm sure it's possible, but it's just not happening at all on 'boat' - just answering the guys original question on the post.

[DaveC426913]

Well poop. West Marine only stocks tension gauges starting at $100. Maybe eyeballing it will be good enough afterall...

[DaveC426913]

Sorry, 'boat' sails the same on either side - no difference - even shifting weight does not seem to make much of a difference on 'boat', but I completely believe you guys that are saying that your boats are acting all bipolar and stuff - I'm sure it's possible, but it's just not happening at all on 'boat' - just answering the guys original question on the post.

It was the same for me, until this last sail. now I'm all a-curious.

[BOAT]

That is really really WEIRD Dave, I would want to get to the bottom of that too if I were you - I must admit - if that happened on 'boat' it would drive me crazy - I would really notice something like that - little changes in the way the boat behaves really make me all buggy and I would not like it either.

What does the bottom look like? Is there any growth, is there bottom paint - is the boat on a trailer or in the water all the time - it's worth trying to figure out.

[Don T]

Hello,
A couple of things. I notice that X owners, such as myself, seem to agree about our boats favoring one tack over another. Part of that is the tension on the backstay which is off center. Sail shape is not symmetrical when set up that way. The more you try to point and flatten the sail, the worse it gets. Beyond that I tend to agree with the weight and mast / rigging tension and shape.
For a relative check, I put a long level across the gunnels and set them to level by jacking the trailer. Then I put the level on the mast (both sides) to see if it is perpendicular.
Maybe the last time the mast went up a shroud got twisted and pulled the mast off to one side (just postulating here)??? I have my rigging pretty tight (I have a Loos gauge) so I can't pin my fore stay unless everything is OK.

Good Luck f'gerin' it out.

[BOAT]

It sounds like Don hit the nail - and I have experienced the issue on my old Aquarius 23 and the reasons are exactly as Don said - the backstay being the main means of propulsion for the hull instead of the mast base and mainsheet block will indeed make the boat squirrely ESPECIALLY in LIGHT WINDS. The more the boat can be pulled from the front the better it will track and the less variance you will get from tack to tack - in fact a properly trimmed boat will not need any sheet handling at all from a starboard to a port tack - that's why I have said here many times to let your headsail have a slight advantage over your main for proper balance if you want a light helm (or no helm at all, which is what I prefer). "Sail your boat on the keel"

Let the wind pull you through the water like an airplane wing is pulled upward on an airplane. Having all the pull forward of the middle beam is why all the water ballast is carried in the front of the boat. If your sailing right, your sailing on the front of the boat and the aft is just going for the ride.

If your backstay is trying to pull the boat through the water from the transom your going to need a lot more helm to keep the boat pointed the way you want it to go because the backstay has no lateral stability and your mast will flop based on the slightest difference in your side-stay tension.

If your using the backstay as your primary means of propulsion your rigging is way too loose. (If your sidestays are slack then your backstay is your main propulsion and that would aslo explain why your not getting "twist" in the sail in light winds: the more you pull on the sheet your just readjusting your mast, not your sail).

On my old A23 we would get the side stays so tight the backstay would go slack, and then we would back off the side stays from there. (Back in those old days when no one had a gauge and stay wire was pretty crappy anyways).

The materials used in the wire today are so superior there really is no excuse for running a loose rig anymore.

[Crikey]

Proof positive per Don T! The model involved utilizes an axis asymmetrical backstay, which can't help but bend the mast in a preferred direction when on its complementary tack. All other factors notwithstanding.

Every model could be equipped with a bias-able backstay to tune for the correct bend. Fairly common gear.
http://www.pyacht.com/johnson-backstay-adjusters.htm
R.

[Catigale]

Are the stock sails really that low quality to be ruined after one bout of I dont feel like reefing-itis??
Ix

Yes. End run "material".

Search the marketing collateral for the word "Dacron (tm)"....you won't find it.

Then search here for the people who bought sails for from a loft on how much better their boat sailed..

[mastreb]

This post is about an but if you have an a preferential tack can be caused by stuck mast rotation as well.

Also, it's REALLY hard to tell anything about true performance in airs that are 4 knots or less, especially if there's any variation. Consider that when well tuned, a Mac can do about 50% of true wind (25% on the head or mainsail only). That means that in a 4 knot wind, you can only expect to be able to do 2 knots. That's not enough speed for the boards to get a good bite in the water and give you positive helm control: The boat will simply be blown in the direction that the wind wants it to go, which is usually a broad reach, and fighting that with the rudders will cause the boat to slow even further. You may simply have been in a situation where on one tack you were "with the wind" and on the other you were slightly off it, with the rudders angled and therefore slowing you.

I wouldn't make a lot of judgements about your boat until you can move it around in a consistent 6 knots of true wind.

[BOAT]

The way we fixed that on the A23 was to put a triangle on the backstay so it connected at the transom in two places - port and starboard - and those two connected into one backstay right about 3 feet above the boom, and then the single stay to the top of the mast from there. It also provided a nice place to hang a snippit of wire for a topping lift without the need to run a topping lift (that part was real nice).

That seemed to calm down the mast sway on the A23 pretty good, not completely, but pretty good.

'boat' trims up much better than the old A23 and uses a lot less helm - I was REALLY surprised by that - it was not something I expected ESPECIALLY since the rudder on the A23 was far superior and under the boat, not behind it like the M rudders. 'boat' seems to hold fine in light winds too - but I must admit I need to relax the sails to keep the same helm at wind speed 2 knots than i do at wind speed 6 knots.

I suspect that is because my apparent wind has shifted more to aft as my speed has decreased. If the wind only drops to 2 knots for a few seconds and it's not enough to make my forward motion slow dramatically the helm will continue ahead without input pretty good. If the wind dies for more than 20 seconds or so I must relax the sails otherwise 'boat' will start to drift downwind and i will be required to adjust the helm to point the boat to windward slightly. . . usually I wait, and wait, and wait and just before I'm about to touch the helm the wind picks up and 'boat' snaps back towards the wind because of the action of the hull tilting and slightly turning us upwind. (rounding). Here in the Pacific it's pretty steady after 11 AM so I don't have much of that after lunch.

If you fly by the front of the boat (stern out of the water like in the picture) it should turn all by itself to adjust for the wind without any need for helm input. A sailboat is also part submarine - that's what makes them so seaworthy.

[DaveC426913]

That is really really WEIRD Dave, I would want to get to the bottom of that too if I were you - I must admit - if that happened on 'boat' it would drive me crazy - I would really notice something like that - little changes in the way the boat behaves really make me all buggy and I would not like it either.

What does the bottom look like? Is there any growth, is there bottom paint - is the boat on a trailer or in the water all the time - it's worth trying to figure out.

I keep expecting to look under the starboard hull and see an anchor attached there...

I'll check the hull. I didn't do a proper cleaning last fall, so it may be covered in algae. (Though IIRC, I cleaned the starboard side, not the port, which should have had the opposite effect.)

It is quite possible, that, regardless of the condition of the hull at launch, algae and mussel growth has occurred asymmetrically, based on the fact that I'm in a slip that faces West.

[DaveC426913]

It sounds like Don hit the nail - and I have experienced the issue on my old Aquarius 23 and the reasons are exactly as Don said - the backstay being the main means of propulsion for the hull instead of the mast base and mainsheet block will indeed make the boat squirrely ESPECIALLY in LIGHT WINDS.
...
If your backstay is trying to pull the boat through the water from the transom your going to need a lot more helm to keep the boat pointed the way you want it to go because the backstay has no lateral stability and your mast will flop based on the slightest difference in your side-stay tension.

If your using the backstay as your primary means of propulsion your rigging is way too loose. (If your sidestays are slack then your backstay is your main propulsion and that would aslo explain why your not getting "twist" in the sail in light winds: the more you pull on the sheet your just readjusting your mast, not your sail).

My forestay and shrouds are (as the manual states) "snug". My backstay is always slack.

Two things I haven't checked
- whether the mast is vertical (it's straight. but I don't know if it's vertical) side-to-side. I'll check that next time.
- the rake (it's raked back a few degrees, not sure how much)