Mac 22 shelves

[jtis1]

What is the best way to hang small shelves or bins on the inside of the cabin of he MAC 22? I figure that I dont want to drill into the fiberglass hull but adhesive hangers don't inspire much confidence.
John

[RobertB]

For my , I made shelving units. See http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... ny#p238963

I attached them in three ways:
Most of the attachments used Rivenuts (see Aircraft Supply website for Rivenuts and tooling, there is an inexpensive installation tool available). I used these because the inner liner on the is very thin and needed a stronger attachment. I do not know what the 22 has.
One attachment used an aluminium angle bracket off the glassed in wood table support
One support was at the back of the lower seat enclosure. I made this a slotted connection with oversized washers to allow for hull movement relative this fairly "fixed" point. All shelves are designed to be able to accommodate movement of the hull.

In addition, I made templates and cut the shelving to follow the contours of the hull and liner.

[Freedom77]

Don't know what year '22 you have. We had a '71 I built the shelves out of plywood about 8 inches high and 6 inches deep so that they would fit along the hull/deck joint. I made contour patterns out of cardboard. the shelf is actually a bin with dividers to store stuff in. Then I padded the shelf for a backrest to match the upholstery. Sorry, I can't send pics. I carefully removed the exterior rubber strip where the hull meets the deck. I drilled holes through the metal strip and attached the shelves from the inside. Then I carefully pushed the rubber back into place. Easy Peasy. I have also done this to Freedom, our '76 V-25. Been in place for 36 years.

[mastreb]

We use the adhesive 3M hooks. They've not budged in two years and carry quite a load. I think they're a great alternative to drilling.

[RobertB]

Aircraft Supply also has bond in place studs. We used these for wire harness clamps on the F-16 - should be adequate for our boats. I bought some but used the Rivenuts instead.

[mastreb]

Instead of installed shelving/cabinetry, we use canvas bags hanging from hooks. The contents tend to remain in place in those 45 degree heels and rolls. Having lived aboard ship for four years in the Navy, I've learned to avoid fixed shelving, racks, etc. above the deck on a boat despite the fact that it does look good.

We had a steelcase file cabinet lock fail in my shop once in 40 degree rolls. Looked like a paper bomb had gone off in our space, and we never were able to get all those three-ring binder pups collated again.

We also had the oven latches fail on thanksgiving day while in a hurricane, releasing 400 degree hot buttered turkeys into the galley and then onto the mess decks, pinball style. To make a long story short, hilarity ensued. We had to be rescued off the mess decks by damage controlmen with ropes because the decks had been so buttered up by the turkeys bouncing around that nobody could get anywhere with all the ship's motion.

[FinallySailing]

Not sure if Henkel produces anything similar for the North American market. I've used a lot of this stuff inside and outside our boat:

http://reviews.diy.com/2191-en_gb/9254538/reviews.htm

It is supposed to hold up to 120Kgs. Two years ago I stuck my replacement solar panel with two stripes of it onto my very scratched and unsightly forehatch. Despite the worst that Scottish snow and English rain has thrown at it, it still sticks firmly.

[tessmar]

I'm curious to know if anyone does have experience using adhesives? There are a number of them out there that are both strong and flexible, hopefully enough to accommodate hull movement. I would prefer to not put any additional holes in the boat (mine is a 67 V21). I do like RobertB's designs a lot. I bought some 1/8" welding wire to use to template the curve of the hull, and will then transfer this to foam core to model the layout. Finally, I plan to trace the pattern from the foam core onto whatever wood I use.
I have not researched the available adhesives but it seems to me that one of the Goop products or Liquid Nails might be targets.

[RobertB]

I'm curious to know if anyone does have experience using adhesives? There are a number of them out there that are both strong and flexible, hopefully enough to accommodate hull movement. I would prefer to not put any additional holes in the boat (mine is a 67 V21). I do like RobertB's designs a lot. I bought some 1/8" welding wire to use to template the curve of the hull, and will then transfer this to foam core to model the layout. Finally, I plan to trace the pattern from the foam core onto whatever wood I use.
I have not researched the available adhesives but it seems to me that one of the Goop products or Liquid Nails might be targets.

Look into the adhesive studs - everthing in one package: stud, adhesive (probably acrylic - bonds to most anything and most tolerant of surface contamination), and disposible fixture with adhesive tape for proper cure/thickness.

I used the rivenuts since I belived they would be easier to cover if I changed my mind later vs a large patch prepped for adhesive. I also did not use the adhesive studs since I found a way to install the shelves without any anchors to the hull (Catigale (I think) posted a picture a way back where someone used drywall screws thru the hull - awesome ).

[Catigale]

Okay, Matt...we get the picture... A whole inch of guys rolling around the deck, ropes, and hot butter...where do you live again???

[tessmar]

I agree that the adhesive studs might be a good approach, but at $16 for two studs and assuming four per storage unit it's not exactly inexpensive. As an alternative I was looking at this product: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... milyName=G, which from user comments seems like it would handle any hull flex. Of course, it too is not exactly cheap, depending on whether a single four ounce kit is enough or not.

[RobertB]

Looks like it may be a good product but what are you going to bond? Also, keep in mind a few things: epoxy is much more sensitive to proper surface prep, bond thickness and proper curing are essential, and finding studs with flanges for bonding ain't exactly easy. We used to use adhesive studs all over the F-16 for wire harness clamps and such - these had perforated flanges, never could find a source of supply. As far as the glue, a good acrylic is best, just really hard to find (especially from someone that is not going to charge an extra $25 for shipping hazardous substances). I bought a few or the adhesive stud kits since they had all the parts included.
Another option is to just do what MacGregor does and glass to the side of the hull a few wood blocks that you can screw to.

[tessmar]

Thanks, RobertB
My thought was to glue wood blocks to the inside of the shelving/cabinet sides, using either a wood glue or normal epoxy, then glue these blocks and the back edge of the shelf/cabinet sides, bottom, and top (if a cabinet) to the hull using the flexible product.
I'm planning to repaint the inside of the cabin first (I'm thinking of trying the Rustoleum marine paint as an experiment to see how it works out). Of course I'll clean everything first and scuff sand it...I usually use Acryliclean for this (a product I first used back when I painted a couple of cars) as it removes any trace of oil, grease, etc.
I had not thought of glassing the wood blocks in but that could be an option as well, though I'm not crazy about fiberglassing in a relatively confined space as both my skin and lungs react negatively to the resin (although I could, I suppose, wear my car painting filter). But if I go with that approach would I even need to use cloth or could I just create the bond with resin?

[RobertB]

I only made one attachment to the hull on my - primarily because I found the hull flexes. I attached the shelves to interior liner pieces and left gaps between the shelves and hull. I also made the most solid attachment points nearest the hull slotted/floating to allow movement in case the hull were to flex more than the gaps allow.
If you make attachments directly to the hull, I recommend putting a flexible element or a bushing between the hull and shelf.

[tessmar]

I only made one attachment to the hull on my - primarily because I found the hull flexes. I attached the shelves to interior liner pieces and left gaps between the shelves and hull. I also made the most solid attachment points nearest the hull slotted/floating to allow movement in case the hull were to flex more than the gaps allow.
If you make attachments directly to the hull, I recommend putting a flexible element or a bushing between the hull and shelf.

Good advice, and thanks. I could sandwich some sort of material between the mounting blocks and the hull and then "floating the cabinets/shelving units onto them (another words, not edge gluing the cabinetry at all, but relying on the connections to the blocks as the only attachment points). Another approach would be a block "sandwich"...one block mounted rigidly to the hull, then a flexible bushing, then a second block glued to the cabinetry. With this approach I could use screws for mounting, making sure they are not so tight as to negate the bushing effect. This approach also requires less precision in the position of the hull blocks.
This discussion is really helping me refine the approach. The weather has turned colder than I like here (and winter is just starting) and I'm not sure when I will be able to sail again before Spring, so working on the boat may be the only way to keep my interest going for now.