Big OOPS...Mast Step damage, now what?

[donny]

Aloha, to Y'all,
We had a similar thing happen to us a few years ago on our 222. The turnbuckle on the forestay broke and the mast fell over while I was trying to put it up. I bought an “X” tabernacle, mast base and mast raising system from BWY and after filling in all the glass torn up by the fall put it in place. Worked like a dream till we bought our, new to us “X.”
It was an ez fix and we really appreciated the labor saving of the mast raising system. We attached the pole of the system to the jib halyard and the plate the forestay is pinned to then using the starboard genoa winch cranked up the mast. Real happy with the whole thing and would do it again
don

[81venture]

" We attached the pole of the system to the jib halyard and the plate the forestay is pinned to then using the starboard genoa winch cranked up the mast. "

Do you have pics of this? up close of the system?

See I haven't even had this boat a week yet....

I have no idea yet what any of those words mean.....

See we bought this boat because of the incredible deal, and the large cabin (for "camping on the water").....Learning to actually sail is on the agenda, but not the MAIN reason we bought it....eventually...

However I, in my ignorance, I didn't realize something as simple (i thought) as "raising a pole" would be so complicated, and require and immediate knowledge of all this new vocabulary...

I'm not even going to try and sail it until I get either one of my qualified friends to go out and start giving me lessons....

For example, our first order is to drop it in the local lake without the mast (leaving it in the yard) and motoring around with the motor to simply get used to something that is not a powerboat....

and see if it floats

Dave

[Catigale]

There are a couple of moviesill find links to but here is the visual...

Imagine you are on land and the mast is at your feet at one end, the other end is 25 feet away from on the ground.

You have a line in your hand attached to the far away end of the mast, and you are trying to lift it to stand straight up...

You can't, because you don't have a good angle of attack ...all of your force just pulls the mast towards your feet.

Now imagine a 6 foot pole standing up, and your line now runs to the top of this pole, and then to the top of the mast on the ground....now your force lifts the mast easily

That is the essence of the mast raising system

[81venture]

That helps...A LOT

using words like "pole" and "feet"

Thanks

I just bought out my partners interest in the boat, so it's all mine free and clear

I can only hope I can do as nice a job as Summer & Ruths, and Henry and the Chiquita

Dave

[Tomfoolery]

Here's a discussion of the mast raising system and gin pole. It's just one of many here.

You can see the mast raising gin pole, and the baby stays, in Sumner's pics.

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... ng#p189957

[heinzir]

How exactly did the boat get "run over"

I am trying to picture in my mind this scenario
...

I should have said "run into" instead of "run over." It happened in the middle of the night when my boat was unattended at her mooring. Neighbors said they heard a loud crash and a lot of swearing but it was too dark to identify the boat, other than that it was a cabin cruiser. It was a hit and run; the perpetrators high tailed it out of there. Kids partying on daddy's boat, I guess. The sherrif's deputies did a perfunctory search but never found the culprits. My friends and I also checked out every boat at every dock and slip in the adjoining bay for a boat with bow damage and found nothing either. We also checked out marinas and repair shops as well as leaving flyers at West Marine.

Chiquita was hit just forward of amidships. There was no hull damage except for a crushed toe rail. Her sheerline is pretty low at this point, especially when compared to the bow of a 20+ foot cabin cruiser. I'm guessing that the power boat tried to ride up and over my rail. I think the fact that Chiquita was at a mooring mitigated the potential damage; she was able to "roll with the punch." The mast fell in the direction of the impact. In the picture, only the topping lift is holding the mast from falling all the way into the water.

I lost about a month of our short sailing season. It took me a while to locate a used mast locally and cost me $500. I had no insurance at the time. I left the crushed toe rail unrepaired until I pulled it off during the winter. This all happened about 12 years ago; Chiquita is better than ever now.

Henry

[heinzir]

...and what's the story of the Chiquita capsizing painting in your album?

The story of Chiquita's sinking and subsequent salvage, "Gone in Three Minutes" can be found here:
http://sbo.sailboatowners.com/index.php ... Itemid=257

Keep in mind that this happened over 20 years ago. I have had many Monday morning quarterbacks say I should have done this, shouldn't have done that. I know that I made a lot of mistakes. The account relates what actually happened. I know I learned a lot from the experience and like to think I've learned a lot since.

Henry
Chiquita

[vizwhiz]

We have slightly different boats, but here are some pictures I took of individual parts of my mast raising kit. Our masts attach pretty much the same way, a bolt through the bottom that also acts as a pivot or hinge. The one I have is the "gin pole" style that people are referring to, and uses the "boom vang" as the raising pulley system. The newer style has a winch instead of the pulley system, which has its big advantages (and a few minor disadvantages). But don't get sidetracked... The boom vang is just a set of double pulleys with the rope going through 4-to-1. It normally attaches from the base of the mast to a spot a couple feet out on the boom (makes a triangle over the hatch that goes into the cabin).

So this is a picture of the "baby stays" laying on the deck of my boat. "Stays" are just a sailing term for a cable used to support the mast - forestay (the one at the front), backstay (the one at the back), and two pairs of sidestays (also called shrouds). (When your friend Louis was talking about the V23 being a "cutter", that's just a boat with two forestays so it can have two jibs up front, which is probably why he thought you were missing one.) So "baby stays" are just that...little stays used to help stabilize the mast during up/down operation. Note that my mast was off the boat already, and the baby stays attach about 6' up from the deck through the mast with a large bolt. As the mast is raised/lowered, the baby stays just swing up/down along with it. Many people take them off after the mast is up since they are not needed. You can substitute a piece of rope, others use the ratchet-type cargo straps...anything strong enough to support the mast and keep it from leaning to the side.


This is a picture of the gin pole, the pole Catigale was describing as being by your feet, attached to the front cleat with the boom vang pulleys. Not sure where you would attach yours, but the end of the gin pole has two eyes on it. One for the pulley system, and the other end for the jib halyard. The jib halyard is the rope that pulls the front sail up like rasing a flag, and you would attach the clip on it (where you attach it to the sail) to the top of the gin pole with the top eye (the one facing up). Cleat off (tie it so it can't move) the loose end of that halyard to a cleat on the mast, and as you pull down on the pulleys, the mast comes up. It will take some experimenting with exactly how long to leave each one, but in my case the gin pole stands just about straight up-and-down when I start pulling on the pulleys. Hard at first, then it gets easier the further the mast comes up.


Here's the other end of the gin pole so you can see where it attaches to the mast base.

[vizwhiz]

Last pic, my boat with the mast up. You can see the "bright white" rope at the front, the jib halyard, which is still attached to the gin pole (laying down toward the front). Since the mast is up, the pulleys are now in a pile on the deck, so you can't see them as well, but they're there under the gin pole. Imagine disconnecting the forestay (the less-white cable on the front that goes up the mast) and slowly letting the rope out through the pulleys...the mast will slowly fall backwards as you let it down, and the gin pole will go up off the deck as it does because the jib halyard (the white rope) is a fixed length (because you tied off the other end).


Hope this helps.

[vizwhiz]

One more recommendation. Get the book called "The Complete Sailor". It's an excellent introduction to the different things you need to know about sailboats, sailing words, sails, and all that other stuff. There is stuff in it you won't need at first, but it is full of easy-to-understand drawings and diagrams and such, and it is a great jump-start to learning what all this stuff is and does.

[Catigale]

....read Henry's account of his boat accident at the above link. Send him an email thanking him for airing his successes and failures so that we can all learn, the much easier way....

[TheJoe]

I'm a little late to the game here, but I'll post my mast raising process so someone may learn later.
I'm not sure I understand what "baby stays" are. If they are the lower/inner shrouds that connect at the base of the spreaders, I have them, and I assumed most of the rest of macs did too.

I slide mast aft and bolt to step. Connect all stays but the head stay. I connect jib halyard to jib "tack attachment point" at head stay plate.
Standing on sliding hatch cover I lift mast. It will not fall left or right or aft once it's most of the way up because of the shrouds. I pull jib halyard tight and cleat at bast of mast.
I walk forward with head stay, connect and tension.

My jib halyard is barley long enough to do this and it's led aft, so it might not work for those of you only cleating to the mast. I used to simply walk forward with headstay keeping tension on it, but because increasingly nervous each time.

If you think you are too heavy to stand on the hatch cover you can start from the cockpit and walk it up, I just don't like getting tangled in the stays and standing on the hatch gives me a clear view of all the rigging in case of a snag. I also have a roll of masking tape handy and tape over the (potential) snag points where it has snagged before.

I find this works well, unless you aren't strong enough to lift the mast I wouldn't bother with a mast raising system.

Also, I think you are legally entitled to punch your friend in the face.

[paulkayak]

I am new to this forum and enjoying the info. I would caution you on over engineering a backing plate on the inside of the roof to reinforce the mast stay. By the sound of it when the mast fell it did minimal damage to the roof of your boat and mast. The torque on that point of the mast when it falls would be enormous and nothing that you put there is going to prevent damage. The base is only designed for normal use and is designed to fail under situation like the mast falling. It is like the cotter pin on a propeller. If you have a large strong backing plate there it could just amplify the damage to the boat roof and or the mast. The roof and the mount did what they were designed to do. Fail under extreme loads. The Venture that was damaged has a much longer slot for the mast bolt to slide up so the mast was able to go to horizontal and not put all that torque on the roof. The MacGregor does not have that high a slot for the bolt to slide. I know my 26S only has a hole so there is no give there. 

[81venture]

I haven't been here in awhile, but I have been working on the venture.

I agree about over engineering and am not putting a "backing plate" but instead put it back the way it was with some slightly larger washers.

I had a customer come over one day (I own a small auto shop) and he was looking at the boat. He mentioned he sailed a 26 and knew how to put the mast up. Another buddy had fixed the mast step for me, he works as an airline mech and has access to much better equipment and he made it new again.

I haven't done the fiberglass repair yet, but for the moment the mast is up. I needed it back up because I wanted to put a Bimini top on it as well as the pulpit, stern rail, and lifelines...

After I get done with all the construction I will pull the mast back down (I know how to do it right now, but still need two people) and then do the fiberglass repair and pulling pretty much everything off the top to clean (wood) and re-seal every bolt and nut

Here is a pic

[Ryu Mikoshi]

Where can I buy a replacement mast step /tabernacle for a macgregor 25ft. I have no experience with this. Sacramento CA area. Please help thank you.[media][/media]