Marina Maneuvers

[Whipsyjac]

First trip with my Mac two weeks ago . I'm pretty good at backing down a ramp with a shorter trailer so the Mac was a dream. We rigged in the parking lot, launched, then loaded the remainder of the gear for 4 guys for 5 days, parked the trailer, gave the skipper speech(location of safety gear etc), and tried to back out into the channel. My Mac likes to reverse sideways . A couple of adjustments and I tried it again and basically "crabbed" my way out 150+yds between boats both sides. Later on the trip we were rafted up to a friends boat to help us to the Marine mechanic we found it best if I put a rudder down and steered. I was just reading a couple other posts about low speed maneuvering and was wondering if I should've had the rudders down? The admiral (who was happy to have others take care of the shake down cruise) says I should've turned the boat around at the dock. Maybe I should've but it won't always be an option and I wonder what if the river/tide were running and there was an unfavorable wind? Also if rudders help with low speed would the centerboard also help tracking and steering?

[seacatcapt]

As long as the depth allows, rudders down for maneuvering is a good thing. I also put down about a foot of the dagger board on my to serve as a skeg. Seems to track well in that configuraton, although slower because it's blue.

[Whipsyjac]

Thanks, blue is my favorite color by I wont give up my extra 0.00000000000000000000001 knots under power for it Currently on the hard far from home to repair #1cylinder no compression problem. I'm a quick study and a slow learner, sooooo, low speed = rudders down

Thanks,

Willy

[scotmcintosh]

That's a normal situation for a first timer. I remember when I first went out, $1,500 fiberglass meets concrete dock work later, I was on my way. I then used the rudders down, little bit of dagger board method every time for the next three years. Now I don't use any rudder/dagger help unless there is heavy wind/current/traffic. Remember, these boats are light as a feather, have flat bottom, and very small prop/engine to overall mass of boat ratio making them tough to handle in these conditions. The secret is to go very slow and let the current or wind or both do most of the work for you. Also, you can try to go backwards in some spots as well. I have found that to work sometimes as well. One more thing, If I'm really nervous, I'll make sure the ballast is still full as well. Good Luck.

[Boblee]

Just dropping the dagger board a foot helps to give a bit of pivot too then prop walk and wind need to be watched more on these boats than most.

[Tomfoolery]

I can relate. Coming from a fixed keel and barn door rudder boat with inboard, it was a big adjustment getting used to the directed thrust of the outboard, plus rudders that don't always work in concert with the engine. I now use just one rudder, and the centerboard about 1/3 of the way down or so, though my slip will allow everything all the way down at this time of the year. Best to get used to a particular configuration, and stick with it for the predictability until you're comfortable enough to start deviating.

The thing that took the most getting used to is the ability to turn the engine and push the stern around, quite sharply with a little gas. I can turn the boat virtually on a dime with short bursts in forward with the wheel turned hard, spin the wheel hard the other way and give it a little reverse, and so on. Just like a power boat (ya think? ).

The weird part for me was coming straight into the slip but needing to pull the stern in a bit, and cutting the wheel to port (dock to starboard side) and giving it a little gas. The rudders try to push the stern to starboard, but the prop is aimed the other way and pulls it away. On a boat with a fixed prop, only the rudders do the steering, so reverse serves to slow the boat, and the rudder steers it, not counting prop walk, which is a whole 'nuther topic.

Once used to it, it's easy to use the directed thrust of the prop to make the boat do what you want. Just have to think like a powerboater when docking.

[Kittiwake]

Whipsyjac I have had terrible results trying to reverse my 26M with the rudders down: it just seemed to be all over the place and out of control. I like scotmctintosh's recommendation to go slow; and in this regard note that one needs to be very gentle with the throttle in reverse because a small change in throttle position while in reverse causes a lot more engine reving than in forward.

I will re-post the following bit on prop walk since it is confusing:
Quoting Wikipedia: Propeller walk is the term for a propeller's tendency to rotate a boat as well as accelerating it forwards or backwards.
A right-handed propeller (which rotates clockwise [as viewed from the stern] when in forward gear) will tend to push the stern of the boat to starboard. When in reverse gear, the effect will be much greater and opposite: a right-handed propeller will now push the aft of the boat to port.

So theoretically a Mac with a right-handed (which is standard) prop will have a tendency for the stern to move to starboard when in forward gear, and an even greater tendency for the stern to move to port when in reverse. ie. as if the prop were walking across the bottom of the lake.

This may be treason, but I suspect the Admiral is correct: it is probably well worth turning the boat around rather than trying to reverse a long distance in tight quarters. There are a lot of neat tricks for this, using lines while the boat is still at the dock (which I never remember). In addition, as Boblee and tkanzler suggest, using prop walk to your advantage can permit a nice tight turn when you are away from the dock (famous last words if the wind and tide are against you though! ... and I have lot of scrapes in the blue gel coat to prove it).
Kittiwake

[Whipsyjac]

Thanks to All who replied,
was
I've known about prop-walk for years now and it was recently covered for me during a 14week boating course through Power Squadron(one of the assistant teachers was a sailor and a Mac fan ), but having run only smaller boats at higher speeds with tighter turning, this was my first actual experience. I figured (wrongly) that it would be of little effect with an outboard. Kittiwake you are spot on, the stern went to port in a big way, remembering what I've learned it makes sense that the slower I went the more I "walked". I'll try 1 rudder next time. Since I have the standard prop rotation would there be an advantage to port or starboard rudder?

This getting to know your boat stuff can be scary, I've read that it's a good idea in light to moderate airs to let go of the wheel/tiller and see if your boat will turn it self into the wind or fall away and run. Would be nice to know in a tough situation but I'm still in death grip mode and reluctant even to pass the helm to another.


If you guys have sympathy for this, you should've seen me trying to direct my onto the Mechanic's trailer from a 14'alum rafted up to move her. My cousin was on the Whipsyjac's bow pointing the way I was desperately trying to go and repeating "you should try to turn ......", too much fun! He also said I probably wouldn't want to get good at towing my disabled boat.

Thanks,
Willy

[Wind Chime]

Hey Whipsyjac,

Welcome to Crescent Beach Marina

We've had our 26X at Crescent Beach for several years, and as you found out it can be a bit tricky if the wind and current are up in the narrow fairway. There doesn't seem like a lot of room in the fairway to turn around but there is plenty if you have your keel and rudders all the way down. Once you launch your boat you can side tie around the corner of the ramp that helps you get headed out in the channel. Waiting in the tide stream for the train bridge to open can be a bit tricky too with no rudders or keel down.

Don't worry about grounding out your keel as it is nothing but soft mud on the bottom there. A continuous problem and they are dredging mud there constantly that comes down from upstream. Also you need at least 8 feet of tide to launch otherwise the ramp drops off steep and you end up grinding you trailer on the ramp, or the bottom of your bow pulling the boat off.

They have a large Canadian flag on the club house that you can use for the wind direction. And the tidal stream has more effect that what it looks like on the surface of the water so be aware if the tide is flooding or ebbing.

I'm the Commodore of the Macgregor Yacht Club of BC, and we have several boats in the marina including myself that are members so you're in good company in Whiterock. Check out our website and youtube video to see what the club is about and how much we enjoy the MacGregor lifestyle in the beautiful Pacific Northwest. We have 58 MacGregor's in the club, and 19 boats are going over to Saltspring Island for the July 2nd long weekend next weekend. There are two Flotillas leaving out of Boundary Bay on Friday and your welcome to come along as our guests if you can get a slip booked at Ganges Marina on Saltspring Island. Half the fleet is then carrying on to the San Juan Islands for the July 4th celebration. We also have our Spring Regatta just down the bay in Blaine Washington, and our Fall Raft-up a little further south at Sucia Island.

Darry

http://www.mycbc.ca
http://youtu.be/NeqZzSYbTSY

[rwmiller56]

First trip with my Mac two weeks ago . I'm pretty good at backing down a ramp with a shorter trailer so the Mac was a dream. We rigged in the parking lot, launched, then loaded the remainder of the gear for 4 guys for 5 days, parked the trailer, gave the skipper speech(location of safety gear etc), and tried to back out into the channel. My Mac likes to reverse sideways . A couple of adjustments and I tried it again and basically "crabbed" my way out 150+yds between boats both sides. Later on the trip we were rafted up to a friends boat to help us to the Marine mechanic we found it best if I put a rudder down and steered. I was just reading a couple other posts about low speed maneuvering and was wondering if I should've had the rudders down? The admiral (who was happy to have others take care of the shake down cruise) says I should've turned the boat around at the dock. Maybe I should've but it won't always be an option and I wonder what if the river/tide were running and there was an unfavorable wind? Also if rudders help with low speed would the centerboard also help tracking and steering?

For low speed maneuvering, I have had great results with rudders down, and board down about 1/2 way. In this configuration, the boat tracks much better, and I can pretty much put it wherever I want without too much trouble. Take into account the wind direction and strength, and point the bow a little higher into the wind if necessary in case the wind tends to push the bow, which is common. Don't be too weak on the throttle, as you will need the momentum. Use throttle in short but strong bursts. A short burst in reverse will slow you down when needed. If maneuvering space is really tight, I will bring it in using reverse to avoid the stern swing. Even in reverse, though, the wind will tend to push the bow off, but increased throttle will overcome this. All it takes is some practice.

[RobertB]

I like approaching the ramp with the daggerboard down. Once I dig the daggerboard into the bottom, I have plenty of time to tie up the boat

[Herschel]

One other tip I would give a new owner is not to try driving the boat onto the trailer. For many of the same reasons that docking/marina handling is tricky because of high freeboard and low draft, so is trying to get the boat on the trailer with the engine. I know the other power boaters do it regularly, but after several dents in the bow and accompanying repairs, my wife and I always float the boat on with lines/boathooks to keep it centered. I use an extra temporary "low rider" hitch for retrieval so that the front of the trailer is as low in the water as possible, then, after coming up the ramp, I chock the trailer wheels and shift to the regular height hitch for the road. My tow vehicle is a Dodge Ram with fairly large wheels. Obviously, other tow vehicles may not need that extra help, but getting the front of the trailer as low as possible without compromising the safety of the rig on the ramp is helpful. Cheers and good luck!

[RobertB]

On a serious note, if you do use the daggerboard to help yourself maneuver to the dosk, please make sure to remember to raise it up before introducing the boat to the trailer. On my trailer, I may make it over the bunks but probably will snap the safety cable that runs side to side on the trailer as a fail safe that keeps the daggerboard from dropping onto the road.

[dlandersson]

ROTFLMAO!!!

I like approaching the ramp with the daggerboard down. Once I dig the daggerboard into the bottom, I have plenty of time to tie up the boat

[ChuckieTodd]

I always maneuver around dock with the boards down. Since when they're up they stick out quite a bit they're somewhat more susceptible to damage from impact with piers etc. Also, when I changed the prop on my Honda from a 14x11 to a 14x9 prop walk has all but vanished. I can back right into the slip no problem.