The Ultimate Mod Dream, Build your own! What would you add ?

[Dnomyar]

Hi Guys and Gals

Time for a bit of fantasy perhaps ?

After owning and sailing a 26X for a few years, I envisaged the 'ultimate Mac'. My own dream is outlined at http://schoolroad.weebly.com/project-2.html

Its been over 5 years, 3 Naval Architects and lots of emails, and I still no firm design to start on.

The dream to build my very own 'Mac' from the ground up has taught me what a big challenge getting a 'small boat' design developed is. From concept to redesign to engineering etc - its a loooooong road.

Just for the sake of discussion - what features would you include in your own version of the Mac ?

[Divecoz]

I thought you said it was an unworthy boat?
http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... =8&t=20117

[mastreb]

Well, I'm going to take you at your word and weigh in. Odin makes a 28 powersailer you might like. I think it would fit your criteria better (although it's quite a bit more money and you have to ship it from europe).

I like the idea of a "U-build it" trailer sailor. This boat will wind up having a considerably stronger hull than FG presuming you're going to use the typical technique of glassing it over with 6oz. However, because you won't be able to tailor hull thickness to load requirements the way MacGregor did in fiberglass, the boat is also going to weigh considerably more than a Mac. A 28' plywood/resin boat is going to be about twice the weight of a MacGregor overall which leads to a number of problems that will make it far from being comparable to Mac. The hull I'm looking at in your plans when fit out is going to weight somewhere between 6500 and 7500 lbs. which means:

1. You will need a Class IV tow beast at a minimum. I'm not calling that a disadvantage (as I have a truck that could haul it) but I think it's naive to say you could possibly build a boat that's better in all respects using this method than a boat hull that was computer-designed and finite-state analyzed for stress and static loading to use the minimum possible materials for weight savings.

2. The weight will increase draft considerably leading to reduced performance. The considerably weightier hull will lead to more displacement and lower speed. I would expect the boat to require about 25% more wind-speed than a Mac to reach the hull speed of 7 knots. You will also have increased drag across a stitch-and-glue hull due to the use of large flat sections that are less optimal for hydrodynamic flow. I see smooth complex arcs in your hull design that I do not think you will be able to realize with stitch & glue, and you're going to wind up with harder chines that what you're showing. I certainly don't consider this to be a huge problem, but don't expect better performance, it's a technical impossibility. Perhaps you're using hydrodynamic finite state analysis, but I think the construction technique will limit how low you can make drag and still have a constructable hull.

3. Higher overall hull weight means your upper deck is also considerably heavier, which means you'll need more ballast tank size to compensate, leading to even more weight and therefore draft. I tend to doubt that water ballast is an option for a stitch & glue boat because it won't be able to compensate for above-board hull weight without substantially higher tank capacity. I would seriously consider abandoning water ballast entirely on a boat of this construction and going with a lead bulb drop dagger-board instead. A 1000# drop-keel can compensate for the additional weight and will result in a boat that's far less tender and will be easier to sail. You can use the mast on a tabernacle as a lever in a balanced system (the mast is a lever that raises the keel, the keel is a weight that raises the mast) to keep the construction simple and inherent and without requiring the use of electric winches. With this technique, water ballast is not necessary and a mast raising winch system is not necessary.

4. This isn't going to be a power sailor weighing what it does and with the increased displacement. It's going to be a sailboat period. Also not something I see as a problem, but just a different boat than the X or M and comparable to the 25, 26D, or 26S.

5. Increased weight and a heavy drop keel bulb (which I'm convinced is necessary for this design to succeed) means it's not going on or off the trailer anywhere near as easily as a Mac, and the trailer is going to be at least twice the cost. It'll require two axles at a minimum, it will have to be longer, and it's going to need a drawbar extension to get into the water far enough to float a boat with at least a 24" draft off.

6. Increased cost of trailer and hull materials, and the higher rated fittings required for this heavier boat means that you're really not going to save money building it yourself vs. a MacGregor hull, and if you pay a builder it's going to cost a LOT more than a Mac.

My estimates:

40 sheets of 3/8s marine plywood, 15 sheets of 1/2 marine plywood, 50 gallons of epoxy resin, 200 yards of the biaxial and woven tapes and fiberglass--About $10,000 in hull materials retail, no less than $7500 in bulk wholesale.

You're easily looking at $10,000 in fittings including the mast and spars if you go cheap. Figure $3000 for initial sails.

Trailer built will cost you right around $4000.

No less than 500 hours in hull construction for an experienced builder, and no less than 1000 hours to completion. If you're putting in that labor of love, that's six months of a full time job or two years of weekends. If you pay someone to do it, you're looking at $75K in build labor.

So by my math, you're between $25K and $30K in material depending on how well you're able to buy, and $75K in build labor or your own time equivalent.

None of that scares me off. I'd like to see your plans when they're complete, and if you'd like to collaborate on the mast/dagger-board system, I'd be happy to talk about it.

[Ixneigh]

Naooooo not another wanna be Mac )
I strongly considered building my own and I didn't give a hoot about the power part even.
I drew up a nice little beamy 26 with standing headroom in the after part of the doghouse cabin. It had a swing keel but nixed the wire cable and ballast. The ballast was in the bottom of the yacht. She had a salty, traditional appearance but had a 15 hp outboard centered on the transom with twin kick up rudders. The boats rig was free standing using a hybrid lugrig. There was a fully enclosed head the width of the cabin plus a Bathtub! There were no
Aft bunks and only a tight single in the bow. There was also no dinette. A small slide out table was provided. The only double bunk was where the dinette is on the Mac S and D.
Due to the stepped cabin design there was an inside steering station.
The boat was intended to be motor sailor capable of short off shore stints. She had a full Eight foot beam and was not really intended to be trailored on a regular basis.
The bottom panel was to be of three inch thick plywood for grounding and half inch everywhere else, covered with two layers of heavy biaxial glass and west epoxy.

Napkin calculations had the materials at about 20 grand not including motor or rigging. Plus a LOT of time even if quickly and simply built ( meaning no fancy teak woodwork etc. ) then there is all that glass work.
And you have YOUR dream yacht with horrible resale value if you ever want or need another type of yacht. (not a big concern for me personally)
If all I really wanted was a comfortable roomy shoal draft boat capable of going to the Bahamas it was hard to beat a Mac even though my yacht would have been ten times stronger it would have been just as uncomfortable off shore and not sail as well due to the low aspect rig.

Good luck if you decide to undertake this project.

As an aside I could fix pretty much everything strength wise that bugs me about the M for 15 thousand and still come out way ahead compared to building one at home.

Ixneigh

[Divecoz]

Just too many shoal draft Blue Water boats available on the used market to bother with this...
As many have seen in my recent post.. for $14K My niece bought a Beautiful Blue Water 32' thats was recently completely refitted $$$$$$$$... A couple years ago I post 26 foot (?) Island Packet for free!!! It was available in Punta Gorda Fla..No Takers off this board... 10 to 20 K $$ would have given you an unbelievable boat for half the cost of a Mac.. but with no trailer and a few trailering issues.. A young fellow with lots of time and some experience and little money , did grab it eventually..
I liken it to all those fellows that tried to turn school busses into Class A Motorhomes.. No matter how good they were , how talented they were ... they in the end still had a school bus.. with a high center of gravity etc etc and ? It was as I saw, almost always worth, almost nothing .. except to them..

[K9Kampers]

Just for the sake of discussion - what features would you include in your own version of the Mac ?

A bunch of ideas already covered in the recent: Fantasy Mac thread

[Ixneigh]

How about an all carbon fiber Mac? There's fantasy for ya!!

[arvid]

Our 26s are very unpractical and bad in many ways , my dreamboat has trifoil or twin bow hull for better room and stability , the head should be 1,2 x 1,2 m x 1,90 and have cabinets in walls and swivel toilet hided in wall for BIG floorarea ... Hull should have been made of vacuummolded sandwitch for strength , insulation and low weigth .... Like many others i have head full of ideas & details for a better boat - and a better trailer too , im tired of rusty bearings & brakes and difficult launching so i want a trailer with a topframe rolling on small railwheels on top of main frame - the topframe should have strong guiding poles and rail so i safely could load the trailer in sidewind alone .... I also miss a good and wellfitting full enclosure . I want better access when using boat as campingtrailer - wider entry and better ladder .

Arvid

[Dnomyar]

Some very interesting ideas there.

I prioritised a few things, while wanting to keep the powering capabilities, economy and towing benefits.

My current 'expert' identified the tendency for the Mac to 'round up' in a gust - and went and redesigned the whole hull.

I am keen in an inside Nav station, so that in the really bad days, it does become a real powerboat, and you don't have to steer from the outside.

For practicality, I have settled on Plywood covered in Fibreglass to make the build cheap and 'easy'

I am keen to design the water ballast tanks in such a way that you can store 'plastic bladders' of fresh water, so you can fill up mostly with fresh water on a trip, and gradually replace it with sea water - for drinking and washing.

A decent sized head with shower is paramount. I just started the 1:5 scale model today - I hope I can finish it quickly, but they all seem as hard as a full size boat to build - just fiddlier.