What's going on with our new 26M ?

[Mac26Mpaul]

Next time stick a rudder down. My missus can't keep the boat going straight without a rudder down We keep one down always when cruising under about 8 knots, and have done up to 12 knots. Generally, there are no problems steering with a rudder down. (no board though, as that doesnt seem to help for me)
At the end of the day, if you want all the benifits of this kind of boat, you have to be willing to accept the fact that it aint great at any one thing (except for having the best accoodation of a 26 foot trailer sailer)
Give it a chance, you need to work out the best way of doing things - and the best way to power I reckon, is with a rudder (or 2) down. We only ever raise it, if going into very shallow water, or beaching the boat.

My mast would constantly go to one side when I got the boat. I spent several hours making all the shrouds loose, and then climbing up and down adjusting them bit by bit. I also greased the washers. I dont have the mast binding problem any more, but the mast does not move in light airs (need the bearing mod for that I guess..)

[Windy Miller]

Thanks for all this feedback - I have no local dealers and Evinrude support is almost nonexistent so I am very appreciative of all your comments and suggestions.

Can I attempt to summarise all the replies and responses so far to see if I've got it ?

SQUIRLY BEHAVIOUR IN A FOLLOWING SEA .......STUFF FOR ME TO TRY OUT

Hoist Canvas - Kittiwake /YukonBob - settles the lurching if less than 10kn. I'm going to try this out.
Boards up or down ? trdprotruck says all boards up to match wave speed (And a great website link to dockside reports - thanks !) Mastreb / Mac26MPaul/Tkanzler/Quebec - Rudders down. Since they were up this time I'm going to try one or both down most of the time (up to 13 mph)
Steering Play - Crikey /SeaStriker - I'll check this out. How do you tweak your steering bar to get more travel ?
Daggerboard - I'll try this again, although I didn't feel at the time that it moved any significant load aft.
Weigh up stern - Ixneigh - I'm not sure I understand how you do this and what volume and weight would be required to have any significant effect ? But I will give the boat a chance as you suggest .
Wheel Size and overcorrecting - Highlander - Yes ! I think a larger wheel might take a lot of the work out of it

OVERPROPPED
- The Etec60 came with a 'standard' 13.25 x 17 prop. Got 3100 rpm...looked through the forum, got what I thought was a general consensus and thought I was on track with buying a 14 x 11.
- Kititwake / SeaStriker / Terry /Tkanzler/Mastreb - the 13.75 x 13 is the way to go. Robertb is same as mine at 14 x 11. Is there really going to be that much difference if I move to a 13.75 x 13 ? Will it affect the engine life etc ?

MAST ROTATING
- Terry - I like the idea of a vang to fairleads pulley line
- Mac26MPaul - I'll degrease the washers and re-tension the shrouds. I have to get a tension gauge anyway.

NEXT STEPS...
I think the best thing for me to do now is to land on the correct prop, set her up single handed and go and test it out and get comfortable without having to worry about family aboard. I've ascertained from everyone that it's a unique vessel and requires a bit of getting used to.....what have you all done to set your Mac up short handed to accommodate the "uniqueness" ?

THANKS
Again...

[yukonbob]

With the whole sailing downwind...I've usually just left the DB down for convenience and on a run doesn't seem to make much difference, but on a broad reach in higher winds you tend to roundup quite abruptly, and no one likes that.

[Kittiwake]

.....what have you all done to set your Mac up short handed to accommodate the "uniqueness" ? ...

Favourite single-handing Mod
Strip off the following: heavy/bulky bathroom door (replace with nice curtain), rudders, mast & rigging (easy with 2 step ladders). Trailer 26M & dinghy as the ultimate canoe/kayak for peacefully exploring distant isolated bays & shorelines. Will even leave behind 30-lb daggerboard on next trip (replaced with EPE foam plug). As the great Aussies have pointed out, it is a fine family land-camper like this too (easier to get in & out via stern ladder with no mast etc).

Sail locally for fun - often with daggerboard, just one rudder and mainsail aboard (it sails so well with this combo, I can’t be bothered to fly more canvas except for amusement).
Kittiwake

[1st Sail]

FYI
'06 26M, 2 batteries, 2 anchors, 12 gal fuel, 2-3 adults, gear and snacks for the day.
Etec 50
13.75 x 13 (cruising prop) no wind, no ballast, flat water, no current, 17-18mph, 5600 rpm WOT
14 x 11 (WOT prop), no wind, no ballast, flat water, no current, 18-19 mph, 5900 rpm WOT, 6000 rpm mfg top end for my 50.

I cannot run the 13.75 x 13 WOT with ballast as the engine will over heat. 14 x 11 w/ballast is no problem
Hope this helps.

Unless you are carrying more gear/total weight I would expect your Etec 60 to swing the 14 x 11, If you are that much heavier than my normal gear/load then 14 x 10 may be a better choice. Also I would have the 14 x 11 checked on a pitch block.

[mastreb]

- The Etec60 came with a 'standard' 13.25 x 17 prop. Got 3100 rpm...looked through the forum, got what I thought was a general consensus and thought I was on track with buying a 14 x 11.
- Kititwake / SeaStriker / Terry /Tkanzler/Mastreb - the 13.75 x 13 is the way to go. Robertb is same as mine at 14 x 11. Is there really going to be that much difference if I move to a 13.75 x 13 ? Will it affect the engine life etc ?

Hi Wendy, keep both the 13.75x13 and the 14x11. The x11 works best when the boat is going to be heavily laden with gear and people (camping) and the x13 when it's empty (daysailing). Keep it on-board in case you lose a prop to rocks. The 13.25x17 is never going to work well on a mac, just get rid of it.

Here's the basic rule of thumb: For every 1" of prop pitch you decrease, you gain 200rpm. Your move from 17" to 11" should have added 1200rpm, taking the 3100 to 4500. Seems like there's still something else wrong here, however, as with my 13.75x13 I'm getting 5200 rpm on a heavily laden boat (it's time for me to move to 14x11).

Keep in mind that having the ballast in will reduce your WOT rpm CONSIDERABLY--by like 400 rpm minimum, from the additional low weight. THAT SAID, I don't run ballast out unless I'm by myself because I have small children and an extra 2 knots isn't worth the safety factor as far as I'm concerned, so I just live with 5200 as my WOT speed.

In any case, you've got both of the "right" props for this boat at this point, and you should just run them both and see which one fits your handling requirements and circumstance best.

As long as your WOT is within 1000 rpm of max (5600) you aren't going to cause any engine life issues, but you will not be running at top speed or most efficiently until you're within 200 rpm of max.

Matt

[Crikey]

Steering Play - Crikey /SeaStriker - I'll check this out. How do you tweak your steering bar to get more travel ?

Windy, without going into too many specifics of my own particular corrections, I would suggest you first obtain the assistance of a companion (the admiral would be a good start) and hold the rudders immobile while examining how much play is present when turning the wheel side to side. This exercise then must be repeated while you are inside the rear of the boat so you can observe what each point of connection contributes to the play you are experiencing. There will be some!
Tightening all the internal bolts may yield some big surprises towards eliminating a significant amount! There are many 'mods' in this site, as well as general discussions dealing with varied approaches to counteracting slop and play. Some are simple - such as proper tightening of the external rudder pivot brackets - to various materials (CD's) acting as shims on either side of the blades - to Heim joints and hydraulic system changeovers (such as mine) as a means to reduce or eliminate all possibilities, depending on your pocketbook.
It's even possible the 'toe' (like a car) could be out of whack, which would certainly have an affect on the accuracy of pointing under the conditions you've mentioned. As you were under power, the accuracy of the engine's alignment matching those of the rudders would also have a significant outcome on the ability of the hull to track true.

Test, observe, measure and mod is my golden rule for my Mac. You may not get everything right, right away - but you'll feel a lot better for making the effort. Then - when you go scooting by - everyone knows it's windy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlqwpq7xycU
Cool runnings! .... Ross

[Mac26Mpaul]

Just to clarify - with rudder down, I said I have gone up to 12 knots. This is only because I was dumping my ballast (and forgot about the rudder down). I keep the rudder down at all times at cruising speeds ( 0 to 8 knots which is what I do 98 percent of the time). I do pull it up if going any faster.
( the owners manual says not to hav e them down faster than 6 knots or so I think). The rudder I keep down is generally the starboard one as you need that down to board the dinghy anyway...

If the sea is a mess, you wont be going fast anyway, and if its not a mess and you are going faster, the boat is just fine with no rudders or anything.

[Ixneigh]

Re set up for singlehanding. easiest way.
Leave the rigging at home and use the boat as a mini trawler.

If you want to sail read on.


Add reef ties in main. The three that come aren't enough to have a nice neat reef.
Wheel lock. Easy to make. See YouTube. It's a must.
Tie everything down inside so the crashing of stuff falling does not distract.
Rotating mast control line. Keeps mast from banging while motoring. Or tighten vang if you have one.
Engine disconnect pin.
Topping lift. A must.
Reefing block on boom end with reef line to either cockpit or mast.
Time.

That last is important.
The boats a handfull until you get to know her. The high freeboard and flat bottom do not give a sense of control. The motion is sharp and bobby and makes working on deck difficult. She leans easily.

How do you hoist the sail alone?
How do you disconnect the engine?
How do you leave the wheel to get a snack?
How do you take a reef to settle the boat in a squall?

The boat will turn from a wallowing pig to a polite little girl once you learn her quirks. She will wait patiently for you to raise the main with her head into the breeze. She will steer herself while you reef. She will sail herself while you check things out.
Read the postings in tuning and performance to learn how, visit YouTube to see sailing videos and compare to your boat. and use the boat a lot.
It will help you get used to it. I am still getting used to it and I've had mine a year.
The more I find out about the boats abilities the more i appriciate them and also it's weaknesses like
LOW SPEED STALLS UNDER SAIL. Keep the boat moving. Long thin foils, not deep wide keels and big rudders. No speed no nothing. Steering pointing coming about all go out the window!!

Ixneigh

Oh yea weight in back. Try a couple six gallon Jerry cans in the back berth. Try moving them around. I find sailing is better with a slightly heavy bow but for off the wind you don't want that.
I keep 12 gallons of water in the back berth in plastic trays.

[NiceAft]

Sea State is a new app for iPhone4, iPod Touch, and iPad2 that measures the effective wave action on a boat. Using the phone or tablet's built-in gyroscope and accelerometer functions (who knew?), the app measures dominant wave period and wave height, which can be used to document sea conditions in your log or maybe get someone else busted in a no-wake zone. Unfortunately, Sea State's precision may make it more difficult for you to exaggerate conditions to friends and family when you're safely ashore. The app can be downloaded for $0.99.

I just read this, and I thought it was appropriate to this thread.

Ray

[Crikey]

Sheesh!

[Québec 1]

Ray,
Just bought seastate and tired it out by moving my phone up and down....geees it works,.

It's absolutely incredible what that darn phone can do.
Q1

[ChuckieTodd]

We experienced the same feeling on our first trip back from Horn Island. Headed north with 12kts or so out of the southwest with maybe 2-3 foot seas. This was a VERY uncomfortable ride. I felt as though I had no control whatsoever. Being the first trip, I was quite anxious - too anxious to slow down but too nervous to speed up. At 9kts, I was in that "middle ground" that mastreb spoke of. I've since learned to slow to 6, drop the boards and take my time.

[mastreb]

We experienced the same feeling on our first trip back from Horn Island. Headed north with 12kts or so out of the southwest with maybe 2-3 foot seas. This was a VERY uncomfortable ride. I felt as though I had no control whatsoever. Being the first trip, I was quite anxious - too anxious to slow down but too nervous to speed up. At 9kts, I was in that "middle ground" that mastreb spoke of. I've since learned to slow to 6, drop the boards and take my time.

I "knew" about the problem of semi-planing, being above displacement speed but below planing speed, from an engineering standpoint, but I'd thought of it as simply being inefficient. Then I actually got caught in these conditions outside of Dana Point and really felt it.

Because the boat hasn't flattened out on a plane, wave action causes it to wallow side to side, which changes its drag continuously as the hull rotates. This constantly changing coefficient of drag at above displacement speeds causes side-to-side yawing as the resistance to motion through the water changes abruptly. The boat is also continually changing from plane to displacement, which causes the prop to ventilate and sets up kind of a periodic oscillation in pitch.

So you wind up in a place where the boat is simultaneously rotating, turning, and pitching all at the same time. It's a recipe for both seasickness and poor handling.

The theoretical displacement speed of these boats is 6.5 knots. Consider that a transition point to planing, pull boards up, and go WOT to get up on a plane. Ease back once you're on a plane to 90% throttle for best fuel consumption, and stay there while you're on a plane. If for whatever reason you can't stay on a plane, drop down to 6.5 knots, drop boards, and stay in displacement mode.

[Chief Yeoman]

I have also experienced this under conditions of following wind and current.

My sense was that when the boat tops a swell it losses weight for a second (like a down elevator starting quickly) and is thus very susceptible to any sort of cross wind at that point. So if the wind is quartering over the stern it can easily push the bow, which is the lightest part of the boat, to leeward. When the boat reaches the trough and regains it's normal weight, stability is regained. The fact that this boat has so much freeboard makes the results even more dramatic.