Newbie...Dad's buddy is "concerned"

[joesonio]

I'm seriously thinking about pulling the trigger on a 26M. Told my dad, and he checked with a sailor buddy of his who had this to say
"I have never owned a sail boat but have done extensive sailing in the Carribean and the Phillippines. The MacGregor itself doesn't have much of a keel with alot of balast at the bottom. That would make the boat more tender to sail in a stiff breeze. The more balast you have in the keel the safer the sailboat. That's why mono hulls are safer that a catamaran in a ruff sea. I think the MacGregor would be a suitable choice as a lake boat but not in the sound or as an ocean vessel. It would be too top heavy, too much freeboard and not enough beam. The boat was designed to be trailerable and that really limits its seaworthiness."

I've see videos where the 26M sails just fine is pretty high seas. Does anyone have a comment of this gentlemen's observations?

Thanks

[kitcat]

Well, until the experts come along in a minute, I would say his observations are pretty correct, There's not much else to say really.

Paul

[fishheadbarandgrill]

I could take my Honda Ridgeline to a NASCAR track but I wouldn't drive it at 120 mph.

As Clint would say... Man's got to know his limitations.

While I wouldn't sail my Mac to the PI, I wouldn't hesitate to get her wet in Leyte Gulf.

Bob

[pokerrick1]

Where are you - - - where are you going to be sailing? What kind of sailing will you be doing? How many people will you ordinarily have with you when you sail? Do you plan on trailering much? What kind of engine were you planning to have installed on an .

We need to know these things before we advise you

Rick

PS There are probably some more questions others will ask.

[Mac26Mpaul]

What the man says is basically correct. Keel boats and trailer sailers are two completely different things and you need to be clear on what you want the boat for. Trailer sailers are a compromise and are not designed/built to cross oceans. They are built for protected waters and limited coastal hopping, and that doesnt matter whether they are water ballasted ones, or ones with heavier swing keels. The major benifits of the trailer sailer are that you can save a bundle on maintanence and mooring fees, by keeping the boat in your backyard, and most importantanly, that you can trailer the boat anywhere.

If you own a keelboat and you are a working man who only has limited time off, weekends, and a few weeks here and there, you're sailing will be limited to your local waterways which will get a little boring. If you own a trailer sailer, and a especially a roomy comfortable one, you can spend your vacations exploring the waterways of that big country of yours. You really need to decide what kind of sailing you are intending to do. If its purely about perfecting the art of sailing and you are happy to do that in your home waters all the time, dont buy a Mac, if you want to take your family exploring some of the amazing waterways you have, go the Mac!

The Mac M and X boats are a little slower than similar sized boats and may not point quite as well, but they are certainly fine for family cruising. In fact they are great for that because you can take them anywhere, and they are one of the most roomy trailerable sailboats. They are not the best sailboat, they are not the best powerboat, but they are probably the best powerboat, sailboat, houseboat, and caravan in one! We love ours, but we knew we wernt buying a boat to cross the pacific in (that will come at retirement hopefully....)

Try and spend some time one any of the boats you are thinking about before buying one.....

[Matt19020]

I think his description is pretty accurate but...Where are you sailing and how? Daysailing, Racing, Bluewater? It is a great daysailer up to about 15 knots It will handle more but you will be working to sail it...Been out on mine in 22knots gusting to 28 and felt totaly safe but would not want to do it everyday.
When I looked, I wanted wheel steering, standing head room, trailerable, on board head and new...Best deal for the money even if I have to sacrifice some "heavy wind days"...They are easily offset with "No wind days" in which I can cover 30 miles easily...

[joesonio]

To answer some questions:
1. Where are you - - - where are you going to be sailing?
From Tacoma. Would probably be doing some local boating in South Puget Sound, probably a few local lakes.

2. What kind of sailing will you be doing?
Nothing too crazy. Just local daysailing.

3. How many people will you ordinarily have with you when you sail?
I plan on having a wife and kids, maybe just by myself on occasion.

4. Do you plan on trailering much?
Eventually, I'd like to do a lot of trailering, at least locally.

5. What kind of engine were you planning to have installed?
If I buy new, the default engine I believe is a 60 HP Evinrude.

[joesonio]

BTW, thanks to everyone chiming in. It's good to hear perspectives from some experienced folks.

[bscott]

As a sailing addict, I never appreciated any Mac because it was not a "real sail boat"--but my wife refused to race crew on my Capri 25 because she was tired of the BS, racing rules, barging the line and the need to scratch every .5 knts possible out of the next best kevlar sail--not to mention the lack of creature comforts.
So when compromising = a happy home, I did my research and found a little used with full knowledge that my wife would once again enjoy our family sport.
To my surprise, I have found the to be a more capable sailor than advertised in Sailing Anarchy ( a Mac hater's group on the web). With modist upgrades in sails, rigging and OB I can honestly say that my boating days are much more fun and my wife is having fun which means everyone is having more fun.

As to seaworthiness, I have been in numerous 35+knt wind days without any problems because I can easily reef both sails on a hove to or drop them altogether--switch on the E-tec, and motor to a safe cove or marina with speed. The cabin is rather roomy for a 26, offering great shelter.

Lastly, I am planning a road trip in 2012 from Grand Lake. Colorado to Coeur D'alene and Lake Pend Oreille, ID. and a week in the San Juan Islands in WA. At 4,200# towing weight on my tandem axle trailer I can maintain the legal speed limit, pull into rest areas, camp out over night, and live my sailing dreams on a retirees budget.

Yes, your Dad's buddy is correct about his technical analysis but I bet he could never accomplish all the things a Mac is capable of doing with an overwidth, heavy weight, hard to tow, slow to rig sailing yacht destined to remain home ported for life. As far as blue water--it's Carnival time for us.

Bob

[Mac26Mpaul]

the comment, "the boats designed to be trailerable which really limits its seaworthyness" is spot on, Blue water boats are not generally trailerable.

However you say you want to do trailering to different lakes etc and so on. The Mac is a great boat for that, and not least because it makes a very acceptable road campervan for the journy!

The rough stuff in the Macgregor video looks to me to be about a force 6 and personally I would not want to be out there in anything more than that (In fact if I took my wife out in that, she would probably not come out again!) Just beware of its limitations and dont take your family out in 20 knots, at least for a while .

I wouldnt worry too much about what the guys on Sailing anarchy etc have to say LOL, but if you think you would fit in there, dont buy a Mac The vast majority of those guys who bash the Macs have NEVER been on one, and you will know that after you have owned one for a while Macs are not great at any one thing (except perhaps the level of accommodation for a 26 foot trailer sailer) but they are a great allrounder if you want to do a bit of everything. At the end of the day, its the big motor that scares the Mac bashing types. If Roger Macgregor had marketed these boats with a 8hp outboard, the bashers would just say, well they are a bit slow and dont point that well, but they were meant as a family cruising boat and not a racing boat and in that regard, well they tick most of the boxes pretty well.

A little secret that I couldnt say on any of the other sailing forums as I would cop a thrashing, but,,,,its actually sometimes fantasticly useful to have a big motor on the back

[mmason_az99]

Great trailer sailor, it has its pro's and con's but for me the pro's far outweighed the con's. I've sailed in the Med, the Carribean, Florida Keys, Alaska and Puget Sound (where I'm at) and wouldn't trade the Knotty Girl for anything. You might want to head up to Seattle, speak with Cheryl from Blue Water Yachts and ask for a test sail on their rigged up 26M.

Whatever your decision, the point is to enjoy the experience. Keep us posted!

[Trouts Dream]

If you spend any time in the San Juan islands...you will truly appreciate having a big motor on the back.

[Catigale]

That voice of experience is correct for the open sea (offshore) but in the Sound, its trumped by the experience of many, many Mac sailors...

[mastreb]

Your father's friend's analysis is just about spot on. I would say however that the boat is not tender when heeled over, rather it's tender when its upright, before the center of buoyancy is well off the vertical. One heeled, the boat bites like any keel boat. Also, I've not sailed the sound so I can't speak to wave activity or currents in it, but the Mac is perfectly fine for transiting to Catalina via the San Pedro channel, which is blue water over 2000' deep in places. You may find you get a current situation in the Sound that you cannot sail against--which is the perfect time to drop the iron genny and use your 60hp as a safety feature. I can't tell you how many times the motor has gotten me out of trouble (generally while docking). Being able to bring real power to bear to stop or go the boat when you need to or in a man-overboard situation is a major advantage over full keel boats. You have the option to outrun weather in a Mac. There are plenty of Mac sailors in the Puget Sound area, and the second largest volume Mac dealer operates there, so I'll let them comment on specific conditions in that area.

The boat is not "unsafe" or too top-heavy when used properly (i.e. ballasted) even in exceptionally bad weather conditions. I know of no instance where an or was knocked down when properly ballasted under any circumstance. If you break the keel off a full keel boat by hitting a submerged reef, you're in a situation that you cannot get out of and your boat will capsize, full stop. That's simply not possible in a Mac--breaking off the dagger-board means that you're limited to beam reaches and abaft points of sail or using the motor--that's it. And it's a $400 repair. In a it means nothing at all, as the centerboard will kick up, scrape along the reef, and fall back once you're over it.

However, should you forget to ballast or fail to pull up the daggerboard while motoring at high speed, you are creating dangerous conditions that simply cannot happen to a full keel sailboat. So the Mac is certainly less "inherently safe" and you need to understand and take responsibility for that.

The boat is harder to sail than a traditional heavy full keel sailboat--you will have to "skill up" when you get one--I was rather surprised by how little I knew about sailing after a decade of sailing my Columbia Sabre 32'. I'd never reefed that boat because it was never necessary--it could just keep heeling to spill wind. I'd never had to spill wind from my mainsail to slow down, and I didn't have a daggerboard to manage. The Mac rounds up easily, and it changes direction easily with little inertia. But I've become a much more competent sailor on the Mac.

My Sabre never left San Diego bay in the ten years we had it. Our Mac has already been out of six different harbors in six months. Gone are the days of doing the same sail weekend after weekend because there's not time to transit from place to place. We've at this point been out of every launch ramp within an hour of our house, and we'll be going up the coast farther (via the I5, not the San Pedro Channel) next summer.

Given your replies regarding your usage, it is my opinion that the Mac is an excellent boat for you. You won't be doing a transit to Hawaii in a Mac, and while there are people who might be able to pull that off, it's simply not what the boat was designed for. They can competently navigate the shallower seas and channels of the world easily, but they are not designed for transoceanic voyages. But I wouldn't have taken my Columbia Sabre across the ocean either.

[Catigale]

My Sabre never left San Diego bay in the ten years we had it. Our Mac has already been out of six different harbors in six months.

..and that, as they say, says it all...... (Other than the slip fees in 10 years paid for the Mac)