Slow speed control of the Mac 26 X and M

[Al Garrett]

Just sold my Mac 25 and am actively searching for the newer X or M model in the Arkansas area. I'm a life long houseboater whose moved to trailer trawlers and sailboats due to fuel efficiency and my love for traveling often and far. Had lunch today with a friend who's also a long time boataholic and am concerned about what he said about his experience with his Mac 26X and another person's. He said that the rudders were totally inadequate at low speed to control the boat. Since I'm a slow boater, this really concerns me. He also agreed to pick up a Mac 26X at Greenville on the Miss. River that had gone down the Arkansas River but they could not make it that far due to completely losing both rudders.

Other posts indicate inadequate, unreliable rudder design with the X but I had no idea that going slowly you must go where the wind blows you. How bad a problem is this? Is the M much better? My plans include all the big Arkansas lakes and rivers as well as a possible repeat of the Southern Loop (2,000 miles) and maybe even the Great Loop (5,000 miles.) I'm really questioning my purchase choice as I'm getting old and this may be my last boat. Don't want to blow it.

I would really appreciate any opinions based on your first hand experience with the X and M.

[jschrade]

If you plan to do the great loop, get a trawler - you'll be much happier.

Jim

[argonaut]

The X rudder design changed in I think '98 from the original elongated oval shape to a more squared off shape that seems to have less area.
But the boat has dual rudders, the design accomodates control under sail by keeping the downwind one well in the water while heeled over.
Reminiscent of a catamaran.
Unlike a cat or even your venerable Mac 25 an X or M model is relatively light unballasted, has a lot of freeboard, plus a flat shallow "v" hull rather than the teardrop shape of the 25. These combine to make them less precise steering than a lot of boats.

My first "adventure" out after buying mine years ago I complained here about poor slow speed handling and the trouble I had trying to dock.
I think I said the Mac handled like a "shoebox in a pond on a windy day".
So, two things. One, take what you read with a grain of salt. People write stuff that's often factual in the sense it really happened, but misleading in that they had no idea what they were doing at the time. (...me) That's the purpose of this forum. You can learn from all our mistakes by searching this forum.
Secondly IMHO the boats handle fine at low speed it you do it correctly.
Remember these boats have a shallow relatively flat in the case of the X hull shape. That's how they can they draw 18" with the boards up.
You could have all the rudder in the world and if there's nothing providing lateral resistance like the centerboard you'll get pushed around by a stiff breeze and it'll be hard to steer where you want to go.
The rudders, either design, do a fine job turning the boat if you have the centerboard down.
Docking is much easier with ballast in. and CB down a foot or so.
CB up and ballast empty, steering feels like guiding the spaceship from the video game "asteroids".
Nothing anyone could do with the rudder shape would fix the boat's relatively high freeboard, flat bottom, and lightness of the boat without ballast.

[Hardcrab]

The same results with an M IMHO.
All boards down and engine coupled to the steering arm and it's not bad at all, depending on your experience level.
Lot's of freeboard coupled with a 30' stick and rigging will make for some "interesting" cross wind approaches to docks or whatever.

I've learned to to the down wind docking evolution rather quickly,( a must in 8kts and above cross winds, IMHO); jumping to the dock with the bow and stern lines tied together at first to keep control of both ends of the rapidly falling off boat. (usually the bow wants to quickly fall off in our case)
You can't dally.

It is what it is, and a short learning curve is usually needed.

[mastreb]

While the low speed handling is not fantastic, and at very low speed (<2 knots) is basically non existent, if you put all boards and the motor down and stay in the 3+ knots range, it's adequate and you will get used to how it handles pretty quickly.

There is also quite a bit of slop in the steering mechanism from the factory. There are various mods you can do to tighten it up. I've not done them and can't speak to the efficacy, but you can read what the various posters say.

There are also people who've installed bow thrusters to handle cross currents. I think that's overkill for these boats, but it would resolve most of the steering precision issues you might have.

Matt

[nedmiller]

I also think that you might be happier with a trawler. This boat is designed to be light enough to trailer and shaped so you get it up on a plane. If you are going to go slowly and not trailer it, then buy a boat that doesn't have the compromises. It is also designed to sail and you need to look at your routes and calculate how much sailing you will actually do. If you decide you aren't going to go fast, trailer, and sail, then a Mac is definitely the wrong boat!
We trailer a lot and we sail a lot and though we often motor at 6-7 mph, we sometimes want to open it up and get somewhere quickly. The Mac is perfect for us. It doesn't sail that great, especially close to the wind--but we often go all day without using any gasoline at all. It has a huge cabin for a boat that I can pull behind my pickup. The wind punishes me for having such a light weight big cabin boat. We were anchored in a bad thunderstorm this summer in Lake Michigan. The Mac bounced and hunted--moved around all through the storm while the big heavy boats just sat there.....but the Mac weathered the storm fine and when it turned really hot a few days later, we pulled the Mac out of the lake and headed for someplace cooler!
SILK

[Al Garrett]

Thanks for the educational responses. I understand the lack of steering control going slow. I always go as slow as possible for single handed docking and locking because it sharpens the skills, minimizes the damage and you can alway go faster when adverse conditions dictate. The Gibson 36 was always a challenge; even without a flybridge, it caught lots of wind. You had to plan every move well in advance. Entering marinas for the first time was usually a challenge. The worse experience was pulling into Memphis in the 10 mile deep harbor where I carefully followed the dock master's instructions. The Coast Guard ignored the dock master's request and tied their boat to the end of the dock where I was slowly approaching. Fortunately, they jumped back on their boat at the last minute and moved the long barrel of their 50mm machine gun on the bow just before I would have nicked it. Not downing the Coast Guard as they saved my boat one windy day near Dauphin Island in the Gulf of Mexico. They will always be my heroes.

Everyone criticized my choice of a single 4 cyclinder on the Gibson as underpowered (110 hp) but efficiency under power is all about hull speed. My friends' 50' Gibson Cabin Yacht is a whole different story and easy to teach her to dock with 2 engines but 1-2 gallons per mile at cruise is no fun to me. I hope that sailing, where possible, will extend the great fuel mileage sailboat hulls provide. Also, would much prefer towing a 3,000 lb. boat instead of a 20,000 lb. one.

I was debating between the Hunter 260 and the Mac 26 X or M and eliminated the Hunter due to weight, cost and 9' width for trailering. I'm wondering if I should also consider the Mac 26 S as they appear less expensive, have similar features and look so nice. The thick cushions on the M are inviting but I like the looks and layout of the X better. Also, cost and number of used ones for sale is a big consideration. I'm not willing to drive to Seattle or Portland to look at a used boat and most of the ones in my area have been bathed in Florida salt water. That narrows it down to very few choices unless I also consider the S models. I'll be watching for additional advice. My friend says that the X was also hard to control under power but, then, he's a man of many boats and probably didn't know what he was doing.

I appreciate the suggestion to buy a trawler but have you ever priced them? They are way beyond my capability. There are few used ones for sale and even they have a very high price. They get great fuel efficiency but are very heavy to trailer. The inboard leaves precious little space in the cabin. Even if the Mac is motored more than sailed, the combination could have a great mathematical effect on fuel cost per miles.

The same friend offered me his 26' trawler and trailer for $2,000 but the inboard is shot, the boat needs everything and the cabin is small. I'm hesitant to start another $20,000 two year project for a boat that will be worth a fraction of the materials and equipment cost.

[ALX357]

The Mac X handles better in reverse, I mean going backwards, at slow speeds. I learned and quickly adopted this technique every time I dock. There are numerous and more detailed posts ( search ) describing the advantages and ease of this technique.

[ronacarme]

Our 2001 X steers precisely, under power at displacement speeds, with rudders fully down and CB line out 3" or more. With rudders and CB up, it hunts widely back and forth across the intended course......I think because the flat aft bottom surface cannot resist the lateral thrust component of the motor. For water too shoal for rudders down operation, I added the shoal rudder discussed in earlier posts.
Ron

[Tomfoolery]

When I first got my this season, I found out the hard way just how squirrely it handles with no ballast, and all the foils up. In a crosswind. Yikes!

Now I dock with ballast tank full, and all the boards all the way down. With a little bit of speed (not much), it handles pretty well. Coming from a big, heavy keelboat, I've noticed that the doesn't pivot on the keel as well as the previous boat, but then, what else would I expect. But it does handle pretty well now that I'm used to it, and I've learned to stall the boat and let the wind push the bow around into the slip to complete the turn when it's coming from the entry end of the slip. Just takes a little patience - you don't always have to do something.

One other negative (or so I thought at the time), but have since learned to use to my advantage is the directed thrust of the outboard coupled to the rudders. On the keelboat, with that big barn door of a rudder but a fixed prop coupled to the inboard diesel, whatever turn I was making was fairly unaffected by the prop thrust (going forward, at least, wiht a bit of speed) in that when I wanted to slow down as I was turning into the slip, I just popped it into reverse and ran the engine up while still making the turn. Being a folding prop, reverse was kinda light anyway, but the whole thing was predictable. A bit of prop walk also helped pull me against the dock.

The first time I tried that with the , the O/B pulled me in the opposite direction of the rudders (since it was in reverse - doh!) and I ended up against the piling I was turning past. Once I figured out that it would do that, I can now spin the wheel and give a short blast in reverse, and it will both slow the boat and pull the stern where I want it. Pretty useful as long as you know how to use it and can manage the clunky Honda controls in a timely fashion (mine has the much maligned BF50 O/B.

Oh, and my boat has aftermarket rudders. I don't know if they're from IdaSailer, but they're definitely not the originals. They were mounted backward, unfortunately for the previous owner, with the sharp edge forward. He must have thought the thin edge cut the water better or something.

[seahouse]

Hey tkanzler -

It looks like we have parallel experiences and practices with docking Macs. And keelboats. Of course prop walk is virtually non-existent on a Mac because the prop shaft is practically horizontal, so the "back and fill" maneuver is not possible with a Mac. And not necessary, either . Maybe. ...

I have not tried it yet, but I am willing to bet that a Mac, like a keelboat, is able to turn nearly in its own length, a 360 in place. I would guess, unlike a keeler, you would have to swing the rudders back and forth with the forward/reverse shifts, if at all.

Sounds like my E-tec controls are like your Honda's. I would describe them as clunky as well - having to lift the knob to change gears is awkward at best. The Admiral has more difficulty with it. But while the shortcoming is not insurmountable, it really shouldn't have to be. I guess it's a safety-related thing.

Of course the drag from the reversed rudder profile would be considerably increased, well beyond that which even a circular profile would create. That idea of streamlining is a very common misconception in the general population, judging by the orientation of car roof-top carriers I frequently see on the roads. Makes a bigger difference now with higher gas prices too.

[ALX357]

LIKE I SAID .....

[Catigale]

A mac will back and fill quite nicely if the motor is linked to the rudders and the centerboard/daggerboard is down.

[mastreb]

Ditto Catigale. I've always had a lot more trouble turning around in close quarters than motoring out backwards.