GPS navigation
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Valparaiso
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 11:33 pm
- Location: Washington
GPS navigation
This is not a MacGregor specific question, but I was hoping that someone out there could give me some advice. I am interested in augmenting my traditional navigation methods with a GPS chart plotter. My intention is to use my laptop for this. Would any of you care to comment about successes/ failures of your attempts? -Thanks
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mgg4
- First Officer
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:01 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Oakley, CA 2002 26X / Suzuki DF-50
- Contact:
I use a Garmin GPSmap 188i. I also have the AC/Serial cord for connecting to my computer at home. I do my planning on the computer, and then load the waypoints and route information into the GPS unit.
I'm not completely satisfied with my computer setup, as I have not purchased any specific package to do the planning. I'm mostly doing my planning using http://map.marineplanner.com/, and then transferring the waypoint information into EZ-GPS, which is a free program. This can be used to build the route, which is then downloaded into the GPS.
I know there are ways, using programs like those from Nobletec and others, to do the planning and update to the GPS directly. I just haven't spent the money.
Probably, a year or so down the line, I'll get a laptop for the boat, and set up a more permanent solution for in-cabin planning and data capture. Until then, what I have is working for me.
--Mark
I'm not completely satisfied with my computer setup, as I have not purchased any specific package to do the planning. I'm mostly doing my planning using http://map.marineplanner.com/, and then transferring the waypoint information into EZ-GPS, which is a free program. This can be used to build the route, which is then downloaded into the GPS.
I know there are ways, using programs like those from Nobletec and others, to do the planning and update to the GPS directly. I just haven't spent the money.
Probably, a year or so down the line, I'll get a laptop for the boat, and set up a more permanent solution for in-cabin planning and data capture. Until then, what I have is working for me.
--Mark
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Harry van der Meer
- First Officer
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:00 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Warwick Neck, RI
I have been very happy with my Garmin 168. It hooks up to the laptop for real life GPS. Garmin Map Source software is great. I develop my routes and way points on the laptop and download it to the GPS which is mounted on the pedestal in the cockpit.
My next project is to mount a serial connector near the dinette table so I don't have to disconnect the 168 from the pedestal to download data and maps.
My next project is to mount a serial connector near the dinette table so I don't have to disconnect the 168 from the pedestal to download data and maps.
I'm happy with our Garmin 178C GPS/Chartplotter/Sounder. I have a mount for it on both the Whaler and the Mac, a transom mount transducer on the Whaler and an in-hull transducer in the Mac.
We bought the charts on the BlueChart CD, which installs the MapSource software and charts on our notebook computer. I buy the charts as unlock codes for certain regions, which allow me to view and plan on the charts on the notebook, as well as to download the unlocked charts into the GPS unit. The GPS unit can also feed live position data to the notebook for in-cabin tracking, and waypoints and tracks created on either notebook or GPS unit can be transferred back and forth.
I'll second Harry's comment about how nicely the MapSource software operates, and add how nice it is to be able to use the same charts you have on the GPS unit on the notebook.
The 178C has two COM (serial) input/output port pairs. One pair can be configured to talk the Garmin protocol to the notebook (required to work with the Mapsource software) and the other configured to talk the NMEA protocol with other marine electronic equipment. Two COM ports are a critical feature if you want to send and receive DSC data with the VHF radio, while doing live tracking with the notebook below.
I also have the AC power/serial adapter which allows me to bring the GPS unit into the house and work with it. The only problem is that it's slow when loading charts into the unit, but you do that only once, or rarely. I also bought the USB memory card programmer, which is much faster loading charts, and lets me move waypoints and tracks back and forth without needing the whole GPS unit in the house.
Let me add that I don't see a notebook in the cabin as a substitute for having a GPS display at the pedestal, especially at night or in fog on a narrow channel or waterway. I'd rather have the display where I'm steering rather than have someone in the cabin shouting steering instructions to me.
Hope this helps,
--
Moe
We bought the charts on the BlueChart CD, which installs the MapSource software and charts on our notebook computer. I buy the charts as unlock codes for certain regions, which allow me to view and plan on the charts on the notebook, as well as to download the unlocked charts into the GPS unit. The GPS unit can also feed live position data to the notebook for in-cabin tracking, and waypoints and tracks created on either notebook or GPS unit can be transferred back and forth.
I'll second Harry's comment about how nicely the MapSource software operates, and add how nice it is to be able to use the same charts you have on the GPS unit on the notebook.
The 178C has two COM (serial) input/output port pairs. One pair can be configured to talk the Garmin protocol to the notebook (required to work with the Mapsource software) and the other configured to talk the NMEA protocol with other marine electronic equipment. Two COM ports are a critical feature if you want to send and receive DSC data with the VHF radio, while doing live tracking with the notebook below.
I also have the AC power/serial adapter which allows me to bring the GPS unit into the house and work with it. The only problem is that it's slow when loading charts into the unit, but you do that only once, or rarely. I also bought the USB memory card programmer, which is much faster loading charts, and lets me move waypoints and tracks back and forth without needing the whole GPS unit in the house.
Let me add that I don't see a notebook in the cabin as a substitute for having a GPS display at the pedestal, especially at night or in fog on a narrow channel or waterway. I'd rather have the display where I'm steering rather than have someone in the cabin shouting steering instructions to me.
Hope this helps,
--
Moe
Last edited by Moe on Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
This is easily done, however after many years of doing this I'm don't feel a laptop really works on our boats. There is really no place in the cockpit to mount one and so far I have not found a good way to protect a laptop in the cockpit from the environment. I feel having the laptop below with a moving map display defeats the whole purpose. You want the chart at the helm where you can refer to it as you drive.
I am however a big fan of a non-proprietary chartplotter system. The Garmin Chart stuff locks you into a fixed feature set. With a PC app when there is a new app with great new stuff, you can just switch apps, and use the same GPS and charts. You don't have to dump the box just to get new features. The same is true of every other proprietary marine chartplotter. Mine is the perfect example. Back in the Mid 90's it was the hottest chartplotter from Lowrance. Today it's features and charts just plain suck. In 5 years what seems cool on todays Garmin will be sad compared to what you will get in a PC app.
To solve this I use a Pocket PC at the helm. It is easily protected, much smaller, and with the new VGA models gives you a better screen than the $1000 dedicated marine chartplotter models. For the last couple years I have used a standard model with a QVGA 320x240 screen. This worked fine, but just yesterday my new PPC arrived. It is a HP hx4705 with a 4" 640x480 screen. WOW!! The chart display is nothing short of amazing. Even zoomed out you can still read all the depths.
I've tried about every charting app on the market over the years. There is a broad selection with a wide feature set and price points to fit almost every need.
The first question I would ask is if you have or intend to have a autopilot. This is an important starting point as it determines what you will need in terms of a GPS and software to send the NMEA info to the pilot. The lower cost apps do not output the NMEA messages needed to drive the pilot, so you need to have a GPS that can handle this function. You won't find this in most of the USB/CF/BT GPS's. So you will want to have what would be a more traditional external GPS. This can be as simple as a Garmin ETrex, but I would suggest something more in the GPS76 or up line. I also would suggest Garmin as it has the widest support in the PC application world. Every program I have used will upload waypoints and routes to a Garmin. A smaller group of applications support a broader range of GPS brands.
As far as PC software goes here is a list of ones to consider.
Basic Ones:
Functional, lowcost charting applications.
Memory Map, www.memory-map.com
It is a great PC app loaded with features and it has a PPC companion as well. Route creation, syncing, and map transfer is very straight forward. I used it for a few years, although last year I left it due to problems getting waypoints and routes into my old Lowrance GPS so I could drive my autopilot. However, I have just switched back and it is the only one on my PPC now. They beefed up the PPC app with great new features and I have found a wonderful free app G7ToWin/G7ToCE, http://www.gpsinformation.org/ronh/ that solves all the GPS upload and download problems. The new PPC module free's up more screen real estate than any other app. They ditch the microsoft title bar, and even let you toggle off the menu / tool bar. I can now have my entire hi res 4" screen filled with nothing but a crystal clear chart. At this time neither the PC app or the PPC app output autopilot sentances so you will need this function in your GPS if you have a pilot.
Ozi Explorer, www.oziexplorer.com
Another great application, has the broadest GPS support I have found. This is what I used all last year. My only beef is the route creation follows the old GPS method of creating waypoints first then linking them into a route. However in an email last week with the developer he indicated that the next release will have a new simpler single step route creation method. They also offer a PPC app that has a lot of nice features such as auto chart selection.
Fugawi, www.fugawi.com
A good app that a lot of the chart providers provide. They have a PC app with a PPC module and a Palm module.
Teletype, www.teletype.com
The Next Generation applications:
Full chart quilting, advanced feature such as autopilot support, radar overlays, tide and currents overlays, weather overlays.
Nobeltec, www.nobeltec.com
The industry leader with the most features and the highest price. Raster and vector charts as well their own proprietary charts
MapCruiser, www.navsim.com
A newcomer with really nice features, full quilting of both raster and vector charts including the new free NOAA S-57 charts. They also have a PPC application. This one is high on my future radar screen.
Coastal Explorer, www.rosepointnav.com
The newest out there, soon to have a big release of new features. Probably the most intuitive app I've ever tried. Excellent quilting, integrated pilot handbook, lot's of cool features.
Maptech, www.maptech.com
Charts:
Charts come in two forms, Raster which are scanned bitmaps, and vector which is a database of points and lines. Each have various good points. The raster has the look and feel of the paper products and will have more shoreside detail. They do however suffer when zoomed too far in or out. Plus if you choose a heading up display and are going south the chart text is upside down. Vector charts handle zooming at all levels and the text is always right side up. Most apps will also reduce detail as you zoom out to reduce screen clutter. Vector charts still have little of the shoreside detail found on paper or raster charts. The look will vary with the app as it is selecting colors, fonts, and sizes not the cartographer. The same chart can look great in one app and terrible in another.
I prefer the Softchart versions of the raster charts to the Maptech BSB versions. Their colors seem easier to read. You can buy sets of their charts or singles at www.marineplanner.com .
If you plan to venture north you will need the Canadian charts which are sold by NDI for a pretty penny. You have to buy them on CD, no downlads are available. Maybe these will get cheaper once they settle their dispute with the Canadian Hydrologic Service.
Free S-57 vector charts are available from NOAA. The Puget Sound ones are second generation with all the detail you need, but there are still anoying holes in coverage. For instance there is a void right in the middle of the San Juans. This is the future and it is free, but it's not quite ready for prime time yet. http://chartmaker.ncd.noaa.gov/MCD/enc/index.htm
Another good source for apps and charts is Capt Jacks, http://www.capjack.com/ .
GPS's:
Pretty much any GPS that supports NMEA output will work. Most of the differences come in how many waypoints and routes they support. You could go with one that just plugs directly into the PC or PPC and has no display of it's own. These come in USB, Compact flash, or wireless Bluetooth formats. Most of these do not have a provision for getting NMEA to you pilot. Few are waterproof either but you can always stick a bluetooth one in a case and velcro it up somewhere. Garmin has a marine one of these, GPS 17HVS that could be a good choice and still gives you that waterproof little mushroom look. You can find many others at http://www.buygpsnow.com/ .
From there you can move into the handheld GPS's from Garmin and Magellan. Don't forget the special overpriced cables. The next step up are all the fixed GPS's. Most of the stores sell the ones with chartplotting capabilities. It hard to find the lower cost fixed mount GPS only ones these days but they are still made and may be all you need. You might even look for some servicable older units at swap meets or ebay. Another varient is the ones with GPS and Sounder capability in one unit. This is what I have, an older Lowrance model that came with the boat. It has the chartplotter function as well but only supports ancient useless charts. It is a good GPS however as well as a sounder and feeds NMEA to the PC/PPC just fine as well as the autopilot. I keep drooling ove new ones, but all I'd really have is a bright and shiny new box that does the same thing. I am impressed with the new widescreen humminbird ones however.
You will find getting the NMEA into todays laptops a small challenge. NMEA is a serial protocol and todays laptops no longer include a serial port. I use a $15 USB to serial adapter which works fine but is just one more connection you have to worry about.
If you have more specific questions I'm sure I can answer them as all this mapping and charting stuff is kinda a hobby of mine. If you get down to the Bellevue area let me know and we can meet for coffee and I'll show you my stuff.
Also one final thing to mention if you are willing to skip the PC altogether and just go with a PPC or Palm handheld that gives you a basic moving map.
The best deal around is from Maptech called Outdoor Navigator, https://outdoornavigator.maptech.com/ou ... /index.cfm .
For an amazing $19.99 you get the app for the handheld and unlimited downloads of all US charts and Topo maps. Nothing else can come close to this price for true NOAA BSB raster charts and an app.
I am however a big fan of a non-proprietary chartplotter system. The Garmin Chart stuff locks you into a fixed feature set. With a PC app when there is a new app with great new stuff, you can just switch apps, and use the same GPS and charts. You don't have to dump the box just to get new features. The same is true of every other proprietary marine chartplotter. Mine is the perfect example. Back in the Mid 90's it was the hottest chartplotter from Lowrance. Today it's features and charts just plain suck. In 5 years what seems cool on todays Garmin will be sad compared to what you will get in a PC app.
To solve this I use a Pocket PC at the helm. It is easily protected, much smaller, and with the new VGA models gives you a better screen than the $1000 dedicated marine chartplotter models. For the last couple years I have used a standard model with a QVGA 320x240 screen. This worked fine, but just yesterday my new PPC arrived. It is a HP hx4705 with a 4" 640x480 screen. WOW!! The chart display is nothing short of amazing. Even zoomed out you can still read all the depths.
I've tried about every charting app on the market over the years. There is a broad selection with a wide feature set and price points to fit almost every need.
The first question I would ask is if you have or intend to have a autopilot. This is an important starting point as it determines what you will need in terms of a GPS and software to send the NMEA info to the pilot. The lower cost apps do not output the NMEA messages needed to drive the pilot, so you need to have a GPS that can handle this function. You won't find this in most of the USB/CF/BT GPS's. So you will want to have what would be a more traditional external GPS. This can be as simple as a Garmin ETrex, but I would suggest something more in the GPS76 or up line. I also would suggest Garmin as it has the widest support in the PC application world. Every program I have used will upload waypoints and routes to a Garmin. A smaller group of applications support a broader range of GPS brands.
As far as PC software goes here is a list of ones to consider.
Basic Ones:
Functional, lowcost charting applications.
Memory Map, www.memory-map.com
It is a great PC app loaded with features and it has a PPC companion as well. Route creation, syncing, and map transfer is very straight forward. I used it for a few years, although last year I left it due to problems getting waypoints and routes into my old Lowrance GPS so I could drive my autopilot. However, I have just switched back and it is the only one on my PPC now. They beefed up the PPC app with great new features and I have found a wonderful free app G7ToWin/G7ToCE, http://www.gpsinformation.org/ronh/ that solves all the GPS upload and download problems. The new PPC module free's up more screen real estate than any other app. They ditch the microsoft title bar, and even let you toggle off the menu / tool bar. I can now have my entire hi res 4" screen filled with nothing but a crystal clear chart. At this time neither the PC app or the PPC app output autopilot sentances so you will need this function in your GPS if you have a pilot.
Ozi Explorer, www.oziexplorer.com
Another great application, has the broadest GPS support I have found. This is what I used all last year. My only beef is the route creation follows the old GPS method of creating waypoints first then linking them into a route. However in an email last week with the developer he indicated that the next release will have a new simpler single step route creation method. They also offer a PPC app that has a lot of nice features such as auto chart selection.
Fugawi, www.fugawi.com
A good app that a lot of the chart providers provide. They have a PC app with a PPC module and a Palm module.
Teletype, www.teletype.com
The Next Generation applications:
Full chart quilting, advanced feature such as autopilot support, radar overlays, tide and currents overlays, weather overlays.
Nobeltec, www.nobeltec.com
The industry leader with the most features and the highest price. Raster and vector charts as well their own proprietary charts
MapCruiser, www.navsim.com
A newcomer with really nice features, full quilting of both raster and vector charts including the new free NOAA S-57 charts. They also have a PPC application. This one is high on my future radar screen.
Coastal Explorer, www.rosepointnav.com
The newest out there, soon to have a big release of new features. Probably the most intuitive app I've ever tried. Excellent quilting, integrated pilot handbook, lot's of cool features.
Maptech, www.maptech.com
Charts:
Charts come in two forms, Raster which are scanned bitmaps, and vector which is a database of points and lines. Each have various good points. The raster has the look and feel of the paper products and will have more shoreside detail. They do however suffer when zoomed too far in or out. Plus if you choose a heading up display and are going south the chart text is upside down. Vector charts handle zooming at all levels and the text is always right side up. Most apps will also reduce detail as you zoom out to reduce screen clutter. Vector charts still have little of the shoreside detail found on paper or raster charts. The look will vary with the app as it is selecting colors, fonts, and sizes not the cartographer. The same chart can look great in one app and terrible in another.
I prefer the Softchart versions of the raster charts to the Maptech BSB versions. Their colors seem easier to read. You can buy sets of their charts or singles at www.marineplanner.com .
If you plan to venture north you will need the Canadian charts which are sold by NDI for a pretty penny. You have to buy them on CD, no downlads are available. Maybe these will get cheaper once they settle their dispute with the Canadian Hydrologic Service.
Free S-57 vector charts are available from NOAA. The Puget Sound ones are second generation with all the detail you need, but there are still anoying holes in coverage. For instance there is a void right in the middle of the San Juans. This is the future and it is free, but it's not quite ready for prime time yet. http://chartmaker.ncd.noaa.gov/MCD/enc/index.htm
Another good source for apps and charts is Capt Jacks, http://www.capjack.com/ .
GPS's:
Pretty much any GPS that supports NMEA output will work. Most of the differences come in how many waypoints and routes they support. You could go with one that just plugs directly into the PC or PPC and has no display of it's own. These come in USB, Compact flash, or wireless Bluetooth formats. Most of these do not have a provision for getting NMEA to you pilot. Few are waterproof either but you can always stick a bluetooth one in a case and velcro it up somewhere. Garmin has a marine one of these, GPS 17HVS that could be a good choice and still gives you that waterproof little mushroom look. You can find many others at http://www.buygpsnow.com/ .
From there you can move into the handheld GPS's from Garmin and Magellan. Don't forget the special overpriced cables. The next step up are all the fixed GPS's. Most of the stores sell the ones with chartplotting capabilities. It hard to find the lower cost fixed mount GPS only ones these days but they are still made and may be all you need. You might even look for some servicable older units at swap meets or ebay. Another varient is the ones with GPS and Sounder capability in one unit. This is what I have, an older Lowrance model that came with the boat. It has the chartplotter function as well but only supports ancient useless charts. It is a good GPS however as well as a sounder and feeds NMEA to the PC/PPC just fine as well as the autopilot. I keep drooling ove new ones, but all I'd really have is a bright and shiny new box that does the same thing. I am impressed with the new widescreen humminbird ones however.
You will find getting the NMEA into todays laptops a small challenge. NMEA is a serial protocol and todays laptops no longer include a serial port. I use a $15 USB to serial adapter which works fine but is just one more connection you have to worry about.
If you have more specific questions I'm sure I can answer them as all this mapping and charting stuff is kinda a hobby of mine. If you get down to the Bellevue area let me know and we can meet for coffee and I'll show you my stuff.
Also one final thing to mention if you are willing to skip the PC altogether and just go with a PPC or Palm handheld that gives you a basic moving map.
The best deal around is from Maptech called Outdoor Navigator, https://outdoornavigator.maptech.com/ou ... /index.cfm .
For an amazing $19.99 you get the app for the handheld and unlimited downloads of all US charts and Topo maps. Nothing else can come close to this price for true NOAA BSB raster charts and an app.
-
Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL
- Admiral
- Posts: 1006
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:28 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26D
- Location: Oconomowoc, WI
This is the time of the year that I start thinking I should maybe replace my Garmin GPS 45 that I bought in '94. But every year they all sound too complicated.
Several of you have the Garmin 178C. I can answer Duanes first question - No I have no interest in an autopilot. After that, I really don't understand what any of the acronyms, etc. mean. I don't want to use a laptop. I just want to get a GPS that I can mount on top of my steering pedestal, that has some good instructions on how to use it.
Duane made me think of when I joined the AF Reserve. I was told I should go into electronics because I had gotten a perfect score on that test. I answered the first question correctly. I knew the symbol for a ground. I got it correct. I didn't answer any more because I had no idea what they were asking. A perfect score; none wrong.
Several of you have the Garmin 178C. I can answer Duanes first question - No I have no interest in an autopilot. After that, I really don't understand what any of the acronyms, etc. mean. I don't want to use a laptop. I just want to get a GPS that I can mount on top of my steering pedestal, that has some good instructions on how to use it.
Duane made me think of when I joined the AF Reserve. I was told I should go into electronics because I had gotten a perfect score on that test. I answered the first question correctly. I knew the symbol for a ground. I got it correct. I didn't answer any more because I had no idea what they were asking. A perfect score; none wrong.
-
Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
Bill if I had to pick a all in one Garmin unit that doesn't cost a fortune I would go with the GPSMAP 276C. Pricey at $699, but a nice unit. It has an internal antenna making it simple and easy install. Also quick to remove for safe storage. It's next generation 480x320 pixel screen is higher res than any of the 172 or 182 series units which are 240x320 or 320x320. Get the Mapsource Bluechart cartography to go with it and you are set. It uses inexpensive standard Compact flash memory cards rather than the expensive garmin proprietary ones used in most of their units.
I do still think the Bluecharts are overpriced that is why I have avoided their solution. The full set of large and small scale charts I bought for $80 costs $149 from Garmin. Since I need both US and Canadian coverage I would have to spend $299 for the Garmin charts. I can get the same thing in a Navionic gold XL cartridge for $199.
The unit that I would select that uses the Navionics charts is the Lowrance Globalmap 3500C. It's 5" 480x480 color screen is a great deal at only$499. You can have it and the charts of your choice for the price of the Garmin alone.
Another nice compact Navionics one is the Raymarine RC400.
I do still think the Bluecharts are overpriced that is why I have avoided their solution. The full set of large and small scale charts I bought for $80 costs $149 from Garmin. Since I need both US and Canadian coverage I would have to spend $299 for the Garmin charts. I can get the same thing in a Navionic gold XL cartridge for $199.
The unit that I would select that uses the Navionics charts is the Lowrance Globalmap 3500C. It's 5" 480x480 color screen is a great deal at only$499. You can have it and the charts of your choice for the price of the Garmin alone.
Another nice compact Navionics one is the Raymarine RC400.
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Valparaiso
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 11:33 pm
- Location: Washington
Thanks everyone: Duane, I agree with your points on securing the laptop in the cockpit. I have been thinking about this also. I had not considered a PDA until now thoughIll look into them. That may very well be the solution that I have been looking for! I would love to have one of those 10 color chart plotters that are daylight viewable, but I havent quite justified the expense in my mind yet. I do use an autopilot, but not to its full capabilities yet. I generally use it as a first mate to keep me pointed into the wind when flaking, or to keep me on a line while Im off reading about the various anchorages ahead. I hope that we might come within hailing distance sometime this summer in the San Juans.
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Rich Walton
- Chief Steward
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:05 pm
- Location: Dana Point CA. 2002 X 75hp E-Tec
GPS
OK this looks like the time to jump in here. I am stuck with the whole GPS/chart ploter thing. when i was in SO CA i got a Magellan Gold from Costco 379 Bucks another 100 for the charts on cd. Then i moved to Curacao and Magellan cant help me at all. I am stuck cant find charts that will work(unless i want to pay 250$ and dont know if they will work) So should i start all over or can some one help with this one.
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
You do bring up something else that I didn't mention. I've yet to see a normal laptop screen that works well in direct sunlight. There are a couple very expensive rugged ones that have screens that work, but all the normal ones wash out. All the PDA color screens these days are transflective TFT ones that get brighter the more light you shine on them. In direct sun I turn off the backlight and they still glow bright as can be.
Another problem with todays laptops is heat. All these fast cpu's now require heatsinks and active fans. Gone are the days of silent passive cooling. This makes it even harder to protect a laptop as you can't fully enclose it in a plastic enclosure anymore.
I may experiment with one at the pedestal this summer. Neither of our two new widescreen ones will see service there, but I have a couple old ones in the closet that I'll try. In particular I have an old Pentium 1 laptop that doesn't have a fan. I am thinking of taking the screen off and reversing it so it is in a tablet config. This would be much easier to deal with at the pedestal in some sort of a plastic baggie type enclosure. With a wireless mouse it might be useable. Memory Map will actually run on anything 486 and higher.
Another choice is to get a tablet pc. I'm not big on the pure tablets, but the convertible ones are nice. My favorite is the Toshiba M205, but it is a bit pricey at $1799. It has a great extra hi res 1400x1050 screen
The price leader has just dropped below $1000 for the first time, the Averatec 3500 which was $999 in last Sundays flyer. I hear the both, particularly the Averatec run hot, so neither could be sealed up in a case.
Do consider the PDA. If you have one already trying Outdoor Navigator for $20 is a great way to decide if it will work for you. That may be all you need. Stick a GPS in it, or use a Bluetooth GPS and you are set. The GPS's that use the SiRF XTRAC V2 chipset have amazing sensitivity and will work almost anywhere, in a case, in a car, in a building, places you could never get a signal with the normal GPS.
I protect my PDA with a Otterbox 3600 case. THis is a great box and had special provisions for passing cables into it. There is now a new smaller model, the 1900 series that looks even better. It even has a special serial/power pod module that would work great with a fixed GPS as long as your PPC is a newer iPaq. Check out http://www.watertightcase.com/index.html to see all the choices. They had the best price and great service.
Since it sounds like you do already have a pilot, you will definitely want to connect it to the GPS. The pilots steer much better when following a course or heading to a point than they do by just following a compass heading alone.
Another problem with todays laptops is heat. All these fast cpu's now require heatsinks and active fans. Gone are the days of silent passive cooling. This makes it even harder to protect a laptop as you can't fully enclose it in a plastic enclosure anymore.
I may experiment with one at the pedestal this summer. Neither of our two new widescreen ones will see service there, but I have a couple old ones in the closet that I'll try. In particular I have an old Pentium 1 laptop that doesn't have a fan. I am thinking of taking the screen off and reversing it so it is in a tablet config. This would be much easier to deal with at the pedestal in some sort of a plastic baggie type enclosure. With a wireless mouse it might be useable. Memory Map will actually run on anything 486 and higher.
Another choice is to get a tablet pc. I'm not big on the pure tablets, but the convertible ones are nice. My favorite is the Toshiba M205, but it is a bit pricey at $1799. It has a great extra hi res 1400x1050 screen
The price leader has just dropped below $1000 for the first time, the Averatec 3500 which was $999 in last Sundays flyer. I hear the both, particularly the Averatec run hot, so neither could be sealed up in a case.
Do consider the PDA. If you have one already trying Outdoor Navigator for $20 is a great way to decide if it will work for you. That may be all you need. Stick a GPS in it, or use a Bluetooth GPS and you are set. The GPS's that use the SiRF XTRAC V2 chipset have amazing sensitivity and will work almost anywhere, in a case, in a car, in a building, places you could never get a signal with the normal GPS.
I protect my PDA with a Otterbox 3600 case. THis is a great box and had special provisions for passing cables into it. There is now a new smaller model, the 1900 series that looks even better. It even has a special serial/power pod module that would work great with a fixed GPS as long as your PPC is a newer iPaq. Check out http://www.watertightcase.com/index.html to see all the choices. They had the best price and great service.
Since it sounds like you do already have a pilot, you will definitely want to connect it to the GPS. The pilots steer much better when following a course or heading to a point than they do by just following a compass heading alone.
Last edited by Duane Dunn, Allegro on Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
Rich, I assume your unit is the Meridian Gold. This unit only supports the Magellan BlueNav chart series. It uses Secure Digital (SD) flash cards. They say these are based on the Navionics Gold charts. They don't however have any South American offerings in the BlueNav format.
Navionics does have Gold series charts for this area, see http://www.navionics.com/Charts2.asp?Co ... &Classic=0 . The Navionics Gold charts can be bought in either Compact Flash (CF) format or SD format. So the million dollar question is whether the Navionics Gold cartridges can be used directly in the Magellan unit. My guess is the answer is 'No', but you would have to talk to someone at Navionics or Magellan for the final word.
Sadly, I think you may be out of luck as far as internal charts go. You do however have a perfectly good GPS that could drive a laptop, Pocket PC or Palm chartplotter. and you can get charts for you area to use on these devices. Don't be surprised by their price however. It seems that all charts for area's outside the US cost about double what the US ones cost.
Navionics does have Gold series charts for this area, see http://www.navionics.com/Charts2.asp?Co ... &Classic=0 . The Navionics Gold charts can be bought in either Compact Flash (CF) format or SD format. So the million dollar question is whether the Navionics Gold cartridges can be used directly in the Magellan unit. My guess is the answer is 'No', but you would have to talk to someone at Navionics or Magellan for the final word.
Sadly, I think you may be out of luck as far as internal charts go. You do however have a perfectly good GPS that could drive a laptop, Pocket PC or Palm chartplotter. and you can get charts for you area to use on these devices. Don't be surprised by their price however. It seems that all charts for area's outside the US cost about double what the US ones cost.
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Frank C
Duane,
My Lowrance LMS-160 (same as yours) is ready to retire, but I've stopped trying to keep up with the GPS market. You're so thorough ... I must admit that when the time comes, I'm planning to read your generous contributions and just follow your research. Based on a quick skim .... I'd pick the Lowrance (480) + Navionics, but with integral Sounder. (Personal issue - I avoid Garmin at all costs).
I think Heath should add a special page button, GPS for Dummies & lazy bums and just assemble this thread as the content. Thanks!
My Lowrance LMS-160 (same as yours) is ready to retire, but I've stopped trying to keep up with the GPS market. You're so thorough ... I must admit that when the time comes, I'm planning to read your generous contributions and just follow your research. Based on a quick skim .... I'd pick the Lowrance (480) + Navionics, but with integral Sounder. (Personal issue - I avoid Garmin at all costs).
I think Heath should add a special page button, GPS for Dummies & lazy bums and just assemble this thread as the content. Thanks!
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
The 480 is the black and white version of what I would pick, the new LMS-337C. If you're going to pop for something new might as well make it color. It's got the same 480x480 screen as the 3500C but includes the sounder.
If I went with an all in one that would be my choice with the Navionics Gold XL charts. Black and white just doesn't do these new charts justice.
Most likely I will head in the opposite direction. There have been quite a few times when I really don't have the need to fire up the whole GPS rig, yet I still want depth info. I am seriously thinking about just putting in a simple depth sounder (don't really need the fishfinder function), then switching to a internal GPS in my Pocket PC. I'd mount the depth display flush forward in a bulkhead and only have the PPC in it's case at the helm. Smaller, cleaner, simpler. A 1900 series otterbox case with that serial pod to send output to the autopilot and power the PPC. Two simple connections. The only thing holding me back is the PPC apps don't output the NMEA autopilot sentances. I've been told it's coming soon however.
I even have a perfectly good eagle fishfinder with depth, speed and temp sitting in the shed I could use if needed. It's left over from the old boat.
If I went with an all in one that would be my choice with the Navionics Gold XL charts. Black and white just doesn't do these new charts justice.
Most likely I will head in the opposite direction. There have been quite a few times when I really don't have the need to fire up the whole GPS rig, yet I still want depth info. I am seriously thinking about just putting in a simple depth sounder (don't really need the fishfinder function), then switching to a internal GPS in my Pocket PC. I'd mount the depth display flush forward in a bulkhead and only have the PPC in it's case at the helm. Smaller, cleaner, simpler. A 1900 series otterbox case with that serial pod to send output to the autopilot and power the PPC. Two simple connections. The only thing holding me back is the PPC apps don't output the NMEA autopilot sentances. I've been told it's coming soon however.
I even have a perfectly good eagle fishfinder with depth, speed and temp sitting in the shed I could use if needed. It's left over from the old boat.
Bill, the Garmin 178C is popular because it gives both a chartplotting GPS and fishfinder/sounder in one compact unit that takes little console/pedestal space. The Garmin 172C is the same unit without the fishfinder/sounder for $464 with internal antenna. Both are also available with external antenna for those with hardtops The $599 Garmin 276C is a combination automotive/marine unit with a much smaller screen, but with auto-routing and with the $249 car kit, turn-by-turn audio prompting. It uses the same data cards as the marine units so it can take the BlueChart cards. Prices below are from GPSdiscount.com, where I've had excellent service.
Garmin 178C Internal Antenna, no transducer $576 AND
Garmin 200Hz, 20 in-hull transducer $56 OR
Garmin 200/50Hz, 15/45 in-hull transducer $89 AND
Garmin AC Power/PC serial adapter $45 OR/AND
Garmin USB Programmer $60 AND
Garmin preprogrammed BlueChart data card $125 OR
Garmin BlueChart CD with one unlock code $109 AND
Garmin blank 32MB data card $46 OR
Garmin blank 128MB data card $79
Additional preprogrammed data cards are $125.
Additional unlock codes are $89
Preprogrammed cards are not tied to a particular GPS like unlock codes, and are thus can be resold, but can be used only on one unit at a time and are not usable in Garmin handhelds. Preprogrammed cards can be used in the GPS without a PC. No PC software is included with them, but waypoints and tracks created on a PC with freeware, shareware, or commercial mapping software can be transferred to them and vice versa. Buying charts this way is best for those who don't want to deal with a PC, or for short one-time trips/vacations, since the card can be resold.
BlueChart CDs include the MapSource software for the PC, so no other PC software is needed. Unlock codes are usable on two Garmin GPSs, a fixed unit and handheld for example. Unlock codes are tied to the serial numbers of those two GPSs and cannot be resold. Buying charts this way is best for those who want to do trip planning on a PC, and for regions local to the user.
Garmin is widely recognized as having the easiest, most intuitive user interface and the best customer service in the industry. I've done computer stuff for a living for 20 years now, and when I get off work, I don't want to do it on my time. I want something turnkey simple, easy to use, and reliable. And I'm willing to pay for it.
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Moe
Garmin 178C Internal Antenna, no transducer $576 AND
Garmin 200Hz, 20 in-hull transducer $56 OR
Garmin 200/50Hz, 15/45 in-hull transducer $89 AND
Garmin AC Power/PC serial adapter $45 OR/AND
Garmin USB Programmer $60 AND
Garmin preprogrammed BlueChart data card $125 OR
Garmin BlueChart CD with one unlock code $109 AND
Garmin blank 32MB data card $46 OR
Garmin blank 128MB data card $79
Additional preprogrammed data cards are $125.
Additional unlock codes are $89
Preprogrammed cards are not tied to a particular GPS like unlock codes, and are thus can be resold, but can be used only on one unit at a time and are not usable in Garmin handhelds. Preprogrammed cards can be used in the GPS without a PC. No PC software is included with them, but waypoints and tracks created on a PC with freeware, shareware, or commercial mapping software can be transferred to them and vice versa. Buying charts this way is best for those who don't want to deal with a PC, or for short one-time trips/vacations, since the card can be resold.
BlueChart CDs include the MapSource software for the PC, so no other PC software is needed. Unlock codes are usable on two Garmin GPSs, a fixed unit and handheld for example. Unlock codes are tied to the serial numbers of those two GPSs and cannot be resold. Buying charts this way is best for those who want to do trip planning on a PC, and for regions local to the user.
Garmin is widely recognized as having the easiest, most intuitive user interface and the best customer service in the industry. I've done computer stuff for a living for 20 years now, and when I get off work, I don't want to do it on my time. I want something turnkey simple, easy to use, and reliable. And I'm willing to pay for it.
--
Moe
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Frank C
Duane,
Yeah, I wrote "480" referring to screen size not the monochrome model. I like the LMS-337C, and yes, I prefer having the unit combined with depth. Since I keep it mounted to the sliding hatch, it never needs moving - just fold it back under and lock everything up.
I've said this before - don't want a GPS out on my pedestal where it's prone to tangling w/ the mainsheet. More importantly to me - I prefer having it visible wherever I'm sitting in the cockpit - just another opinion (worth its weight in hot air).
Magelllan and Garmin have been dueling in the "Street Pilot" wars for automotive users. They want $1,000 for their touch-screen, audio-voice, routing models with 10G hard drive included ... means lot's of maps! (But, I think they still charge extra for the maps - what a RIP).
Touch-screen GPS is an important AND VERY INTUITIVE advance in user interface for GPS. For example, you just move your finger to the screen edge to pan the map in any direction. I just noticed today that Lowrance has a new model for automotive use, the Way-500C, and they've upped the ante by a magnitude. The new Lowrance includes 20G harddrive, audio-voice directions, touch-screen and MP3 player, all for the low-low price of $750 (at buy.com)! Yay team - go Lowrance!
(what a terrific usage model for the car - simply amazing)!
Duane, wonder when touch-screen GUI will find its way to marine GPS?
Yeah, I wrote "480" referring to screen size not the monochrome model. I like the LMS-337C, and yes, I prefer having the unit combined with depth. Since I keep it mounted to the sliding hatch, it never needs moving - just fold it back under and lock everything up.
I've said this before - don't want a GPS out on my pedestal where it's prone to tangling w/ the mainsheet. More importantly to me - I prefer having it visible wherever I'm sitting in the cockpit - just another opinion (worth its weight in hot air).
Magelllan and Garmin have been dueling in the "Street Pilot" wars for automotive users. They want $1,000 for their touch-screen, audio-voice, routing models with 10G hard drive included ... means lot's of maps! (But, I think they still charge extra for the maps - what a RIP).
Touch-screen GPS is an important AND VERY INTUITIVE advance in user interface for GPS. For example, you just move your finger to the screen edge to pan the map in any direction. I just noticed today that Lowrance has a new model for automotive use, the Way-500C, and they've upped the ante by a magnitude. The new Lowrance includes 20G harddrive, audio-voice directions, touch-screen and MP3 player, all for the low-low price of $750 (at buy.com)! Yay team - go Lowrance!
(what a terrific usage model for the car - simply amazing)!
Duane, wonder when touch-screen GUI will find its way to marine GPS?