Bearing lubrication for Mast Rotation?

[Terry]

The outer washers or pressure plates pivot on that single row of tiny balls and then develops cracks until the outer edges break off.

That's a bearing working well beyond it's rated capacity. Try matching it to something larger at this site: http://www.vxb.com/

The site mastreb refers to is quite extensive and many are for a different applications, I would not know what parameters to search with to find a bearing similar to what Rich (Haminx) mentions or the BWY version, but mastreb is correct about capacity. (can someone with more knowledge please search that site and let us know what is appropriate)
I viewed the site Haminx cited and see the three piece set is very similar to BWY version except that the BWY version is four piece, it includes a brass center collar that fits the inside depth of the three washers stacked. The BWY version is 1.25 inches in diameter, (I just measured it) and the mast is 3 inches at the most narrow point. I would speculate that a 2 inch diameter would be better and have 2-3 circles of tiny ball bearings or perhaps long roller bearings.
My original setup consisted of two large 3 inch diameter teflon (or hard plastic) washers that did not rotate as freely as I would like so I tried the BWY bearing. I would think that any aftermarket replacement would be an improvement over the oem standard but I am keeping my big washers for future use.
I find in light airs that the mast does not rotate readily so I rigged up a pulley block system with lines back to the cockpit that I could manually rotate the mast with in lighter airs. It connects to the mast end of the boom vang and then extendsto pulleys on those stanchion fairleads for the babystays then the lines run aft where I can operate them. It is actually a nice little setup and easy to install.
I truly believe that these boats with the rotating mast require a much better mousetrap than the factory one, though I have not seen the latest offering from the factory, just a few older variations.
Can we all keep pounding this topic until we come up with a viable solution?

[Berber Boy]

I fitted it yesterday with drylube and will try it out. Thanks for all the comments

I think there are three issues for consideration in a free rotation. The first is the washer or bearing setup at the bottom. I like the idea of a couple of SS washers with grease as an alternative that Highlander uses. I do find the grease gets pressed out with washers and also dries up especially if you have not used it for awhile. The kind of bearing I think you need that can withstand the pressure but is also encased is the kind that we used in cars on the clutch. we called it a throwout bearing. I found one that was 1.25 diameter but about 5/8 high. I could just fit it with my shrouds loosened to maximum and it functioned well but looked bad.

The second issue is that if you extend your reefing and main hailyard lines back through a rope clutch to the cockpit as I have on my rig and the block hangar at the foot of the mast is directly attached to the rotating mast the rope tension pulls it one way or another or holds it in the middle if you have one on the port and one on the starboard. I have moved my block hangar down and attached it on the base plate just forward of the bolt that holds the mast in place. This has made a major improvement

Thirdly I have found that if the lower shrouds are too tight it reduces the ease of rotation considerably or if they are uneven the mast will default to the opposite side of the one that is over-tensioned

If anyone finds a thin encased throwout bearing please let us know . I am still looking

Cheers.

Dave

[mastreb]

The right solution for is application is a pair of oil impreg thrust washers that won't require grease. Ball or needle bearings are unnecessary, have lower load ratings, and are more prone to failure. You want two so they rotate against one another rather than the mast and foot, and you want large surface area washers so they have a large amount of overlap. I'll measure it out this weekend, find the right washers, and test them.

[Hardcrab]

I still have the factory washer set-up on my 05.
Mast rotation has not been an issue in the past, even though I run fairly tight shrouds.
I use a white lithium waterproof grease in a spray can that works fine, sprayed once a year on my yearly mast lowering for inspection.

I do like the idea of bigger SS washers, but instead of grease, I'd look to thin (1/16" - 1/8" or so) teflon sheet sandwiched between the SS washers. Loading issues would disappear as the friction level between the washers will remain consistent unlike grease oozing out with use.
Any extra thickness should not be a player and it should last much longer than the BWY bearing as described earlier.

That should be the ticket for zero maintenance for very long periods of time with no muss or fuss.

I use this same material as shims at the rudders to brackets joint to make tight, no slop rudders raise and lower like butter.

Does anyone have an idea as to the measurements for the OD and ID of the factory washers?
I'd like to have this ready for the next time I lower the mast and take one more thing off of the maintenance list.

[Berber Boy]

Width 0.075 " OD 1.25" ID 0.55"

Dave

[Hardcrab]

Dave, thank you sir.
THe hunt is on for the SS washers.
Prolly will cobble them up from some SS sheet.

[Berber Boy]

A pleasure! You sound softer than your name suggests!

[Hamin' X]

The right solution for is application is a pair of oil impreg thrust washers that won't require grease. Ball or needle bearings are unnecessary, have lower load ratings, and are more prone to failure. You want two so they rotate against one another rather than the mast and foot, and you want large surface area washers so they have a large amount of overlap. I'll measure it out this weekend, find the right washers, and test them.

That is why I referred folks to the website that I did:

http://www.qbcbearings.com/buyrfq/Thrus ... L_SB_I.htm

• Sintered Bronze • Oil-Impregnated • Self-Lubricating

This would appear to be the closest and a pair can be had for about $7 +S&H.

BTNWAS-182004
.565
1.250
1/8

I have an X, or I would try them myself.

~Rich

[Divecoz]

Thanks Rich for the link and even the Cat #.. I was going blind look for bearings .. Thrust washers good idea, bronze better yet.. sintered too, thats the ticket...

[mastreb]

So I checked my 2011 factory washers today. There are three oil impregnated bronze washers, so I'm set. My mast rotates easily. Is this not the same setup as everyone else?

[C Striker]

That's exactly the same as mine made august of 08, minus the oil though. They are holding up okay.

[Russ]

So I checked my 2011 factory washers today. There are three oil impregnated bronze washers, so I'm set. My mast rotates easily. Is this not the same setup as everyone else?

Define "easily".

My '08 would rotate with some pressure. With the bearings, it rotates with total ease.

Bottom line is, if you think it's working well, it probably is.

--Russ

[Divecoz]

Mine .....an 05 got to the point it wouldnt turn at all..I took it apart buffed it on my wheel and sprayed it with dry lube.. But most the time I am on Fresh water.. Moving south....will raise the bar.. On Everyyyy Thing...

[Octaman]

It seems that the MacGregor factory changed the set up at some point.

Mastreb has three oil impregnated washers on his 2011 M.
Highlander, seems to have the same set up on his 2008 M.

My 2004 M came with a different setup that did not hold long; three washers, stainless steel top and bottom washers, centre washer made of Teflon or similar material. No lubrication. After a few weeks, the Teflon washer was squeezed to death and failed. It came out of place and I just happened to find it on deck torn apart. So the washer’s failure was proven. The remaining two washers alone did not do the job well enough because they were not big enough (outside diameter too small) and did not fit snugly around the bolt (inside diameter too big). Additionally, with the Teflon washer torn out of place the mast sat a little lower and needed to be tuned from scratch (i.e. the shrouds became too slack).
My present set up as described above (previous post in this topic) solved the problem.
However, it seems to me that the oil impregnated thrust washers should be a superior solution.

Now, my question; two washers or three???

Octaman

[c130king]

Got the boat at the house and getting it ready for the JMGT. Today I took off my mast base so that I could put my eyes on these washers and see what I have.

Taking the mast base off was very easy (I had never done it before). I only had the through-bolt...no set screw:




Then I took off the lock-nut on the center bolt and found the three washers:



I have rotation issues...it doesn't rotate easily...unless the winds are blowing pretty hard I normally have to grab the main sheet and give it a yank to get the mast rotate. So what should I do? Clean these? Grease/lube these as Hardcrab mentioned with lithium waterproof grease in a spray can (WestMarine???).

Do not intend to add the bearing kit. Just want to clean, lube if possible/necessary, and re-install.

Thanks for any advice.

Cheers,
Jim

P.S. Got up on the boat for the first time this evening since bringing it home on Sunday. Somehow the hatch had slid open while trailering. And of course it poured today...