Boom hardware and other questions

[hoaglandr]

Newbie working on the boat in the driveway....

I put the genoa back on the furler (I think I got it right), installed the new spreaders, and raised the mast. Hooked up the boom.

Couple of questions came to mind:

1. With the furler for the Genoa, does the jib halyard have any actual purpose?

2. On the end of my boom I have a cleat - I assume it is for the topping lift. In the pic below you can see the line for the topping lift which I attached to the cleat hidden on the starboard side of the boom. I also have 6 ft. of line hanging from the boom that I don't know what to do with and a hook-like device that I am clueless about. I'm guessing maybe one of those gets attached to the clew of the mainsail. Anyone have any ideas? The vang and the traveler have all lines accounted for!


While I was at it today I finished my solar panel installation (sorry about the image - for some reason photo bucket insisted on flipping it 90 deg). I used ss bimini fittings to attach it to the mast arch and cut down my old spreaders for the supports. It clears my head and the bimini. I can also flip it around and hang it off the back of the arch if in the future I decide it's in my way. I can adjust the angle of the panel and unplug it and take it down without too much difficulty.


Russell

[hoaglandr]

While I'm at it, I also had a question about my Lazy-Jack system.


This pic show a block and an eyelet one third of the way out on the boom. There is also a cleat on the boom between the block and the mast.

Here we see two eyelets about two thirds of the way out on the boom.

These blocks are hanging from small lines attached to the mast up by the upper shrouds. (photobucket rotated my pics again )

The dealer told me that the small lines running through these blocks were just to tie them off when not in use. I have another line that came with the boat that I am supposed to thread through all these fittings. I'm assuming that I'm supposed to tie off one end of the line in the eyelet in picture 1, go up through the port block, back down through the aft port eyelet, under the boom and through the aft starboard eyelet, up to the starboard block, back down to the block on the mast and tie off on the cleat. This would essentially form a large inverted Y on each side of the boom. Does this sound right?

Russell

[Judy B]

Where are the block and eyestrap on the boom? If they're located near the aft end of the boom, those two pieces of hardware on the boom are most likely intended to be used to install a reefing line.

Here's a diagram of a Catalina boom with a reefing line at the back of the boom.



You tie a line on the eyestrap, go up on the same side of the sail, pass the line through the reef clew grommet, go down the other side of the sail, through the block, and forward to the cleat.

Please note that the reefing line has to pull the reef clew down and aft, not just down. When you reef, you want the back of the sail to be pulled flat and tight, to reduce power in the sail.

Hope this helps,
Judy B

[hoaglandr]

Thanks Judy! That gives me something else to consider. The block on the boom is next to the cleat, about where the eyelet is in your diagram. I can see where I might be able to run a reef line using the existing eyelets but I'm still guessing they were intended for the lazy-jack. The PO had tie off lines (is there a nautical term for these?) running through the grommets at the reef point of the mainsail so I doubt if he used a reefing line.

Either today or tomorrow I'm going to rig the lazy jacks, run the main up and down, reef it, etc. and try to figure out how everything works.

Russell

[Judy B]

Hi Russell,

You may be right about those eyestraps being for lazy jack lines.

Can you get more pictures, please, at wider angles, showing more of the boom? The whole boom? then I can advise you better about how how the reefing works (and maybe how the lazy jacks are supposed to work).

Where is that block? How many inches from the back of the booM? If the block is pretty far aft, you rig the reefing line a certain way. If the block is right under the reef tack (the reefing grommet at the aft (back end) of the sail, you rig the line a different way.

As I noted in my first post, the aft reefing line should pull the mainsails both down and aft - we're looking for hardware that will do that.

Fair winds,
Judy B

[Divecoz]

Judy : Welcome Aboard... : )
I have been too busy for quite some time to add or address any new project on the boat.. But I have been collecting ideas all the while..
So I have a few questions:
Are there any draw backs to the system you show? ( and thanks for the excellent drawing!)
Are there any reason why I couldn't use 1 single line and after the stopper knots behind the grommets thread a piece of plastic tubing ( like a hollow batten? ) over the line? It might facilitate a nicer cleaner reef?
Does anyone have any ideas on how to incorporate this all into 1 line lead aft? Wouldn't that be The Hot Setup?? Time to reef.. Yank , Pull, Cleat and I never set down my drink.. : ) All from the cockpit : ) Single Handed!
Wheres Highlander??

[c130king]

Russell,

I had a reefing system similar to what I think you are describing on your boat. It was a single line led through a series of blocks attached to the boom itself and the ones hanging from up high on the mast (held out to the sides somewhat by lines attached to the shrouds). Anyway to "raise" the LJ (so that they would catch the sail) I had to pull on the line at the end of my boom...I would end up with about 20' of line in the cockpit which I would "ball" up and then bungy to the end of my boom. Had to sail around all day with that wad of line bungied to teh boom...looked like crap IMHO.

And then when I was ready to put the sail cover on I would need to "lower" the LJ so I would un-bungy the ball...untangle as necessary...and then pull all the lines toward the mast which would pull that 20' of line back through all the blocks.

Kinda/sorta a PITA. But the boat came this way from the PO.

So I modified the system with fixed length lines and used small/cheap carabiners to attach the lines to the mast end of the boom and the aft end of the boom. When ready to put the sail cover on I now just unclip the carabiners and bring the lines to the mast and they go inside the cover just like the halyard. And when I "raise" the LJ system I clip on the carabiners and I don't have that 20' "wad" of line bungied to the boom.

Just something to think about. Use what you got a few times and see how easy/difficult you feel your system is...yours may be different from mine and a little more user friendly and less "goofy" looking.

Good luck.

Cheers,
Jim
Sailing on König

PS -- First sail of the season planned for Sunday...can't wait...of course I probably just jinxed myself by talking about it...

[Judy B]

Hello,

For the best overview of reefing and lazy jack systems, go to http://www.harken.com/rigtips/MainsailReefing.php They have some great drawings.

I sail on San Francisco Bay, and we put in and shake out reefs everyday. Our conditions are rough, and I sail a trailerable boat. I prefer to do my reefing from the cockpit, for safety's sake! The forefdeck is no place to be on a small boat in rough seas and lots of wind. I have a -two line system on my 19 foot West Wight Potter, and I can put a reef in in less than 60 seconds, from the safety of the cockpit.

The simplest system to operate is called two line slab reefing. One line pulls the front of the main down, and the second line pulls the back of the mainsail down. You have to get the reef tucked into the front of the mainsail first; if you tighten the back end first, you might rip the slides right out at the front.

Single line systems seem simpler, but they're really not. The have a lot more friction in them, so they're harder to use. They don't establish the reef at the luff first, so you're more likely to damage your main.



Reefing is a big topic, and I don't have time to go into it right now. I've got to take care of some customers. I'll check back later with the forum.

Fair winds,
Judy B

[Judy B]

Oh, I almost forgot -- take a look at this thread about using "floppy rings" for reefing.

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... 5&start=15

Judy B

[hoaglandr]

So I modified the system with fixed length lines and used small/cheap carabiners to attach the lines to the mast end of the boom and the aft end of the boom.

Jim - I went out this morning and started leading my 3/8 line through the blocks and eyelets and realized that I had about an extra 20 feet of line and started questioning why I would ever need a line that heavy for this task anyway . That caused me to wonder if I was on the right track. So I pulled the line back out and just tied off the light 1/8 nylon line that was originally run through the blocks. Not surprisingly, they were just the right length. I figured if this works out, I will just add a snap shackle to the end. Your post confirms for me that I'm on the right track. Is there any reason that a fixed length line won't work? Will the lazy jack interfere with the performance of the sail in any way?

Judy - the boom cleat is about 18" from the mast and the block is about 36 inches from the mast. That puts them on the wrong end for the reefing lines. I'll try to get some more pics tomorrow. I read your post about the "floppy rings" this morning and thought that was a great idea. I can see where using the rings would be much easier than trying to hook the grommet on the gooseneck.

Divecoz - I'm with you. It seems that being able to reef from the cockpit would be a very useful tool. I am adding that to my mod list. Oh, and maybe a "down haul" for the main.

Anybody able to identify the use for the hook and short line in this pic?

Thanks for all your input!

Russell

[c130king]

Is there any reason that a fixed length line won't work? Will the lazy jack interfere with the performance of the sail in any way?

I don't see why a fixed length line won't work. To be honest mine is not completely fixed length. I have about 2' of extra line so that I can adjust if necessary...but have never needed to. I could cut that extra 2' off but sure as the sun will come up in the morning if I cut it off I will need it.

IMHO there is no interference when under sail. If the sail is really full...say a broad reach...then the sail will touch the LJ lines. But if there is any degradation in performance it is less than 1.37%. I leave my LJ system up all the time unless I am putting on my cover. Takes maybe 60 seconds to unclip two carabiners at the end of the boom...clip two carabiners at the front of the boom...pull the lines to the mast...and then another 2 minutes or so to throw on my sail cover and snap and zipper it closed. And I normally only do these steps at the dock right before I pull the boat out.

And to add to the discussion...I also have single line jiffy-reefing very similar to the picture that Judy posted but after the line goes through the forward reefing cringle it comes down to a turning block on the boom and runs back to another turning block on the aft end of the boom then up to and through the aft reefing cringle and then down to a metal piece attached to the boom where I tie it off. So from the cockpit I pull on the reefing line and this will pull the forward and aft cringle down to the boom...aka "reefed". I do have the sail slugs "stacked up" on the slug-stopper just above the stop but this only results in the cringle being maybe 6-8" higher than if it was as low as possible.

No help with that "hook thing"...no idea what that is.

Five very nice mods to have if you plan to go single-handed:

1) Wheel or auto-pilot
2) main halyard led to the cockpit (raise/lower the main without going up to the mast)...and my main does have a "haul down" to pull down the main...you can see it in the video
3) Roller furling foresail (Genoa 150 in my case with CDI FF-2 Furler)
4) Lazy Jacks to catch the sail when you lower it
5) Reefing system led to the cockpit (no need to go up to the mast to reef)

Are there many who do single-handed without these things...certainly and more power to them. But does having these things make life easier and safer...IMHO they certainly do. My boat came with 2-5. I bought the Wheel Pilot which can be expensive. Not sure the cost of roller furling. 2,4, and 5 are pretty cheap I think.

Here is my video demonstrating me single-handed furling the foresail and lowering the main into the Lazy Jacks and I stay seated in the cockpit the whole time:

Lazy Jacks and Roller Furling

Cheers,
Jim
Sailing on König
Sailing on König YouTube Channel

[Doug W]

Five very nice mods to have if you plan to go single-handed:

1) Wheel or auto-pilot
2) main halyard led to the cockpit (raise/lower the main without going up to the mast)...and my main does have a "haul down" to pull down the main...you can see it in the video
3) Roller furling foresail (Genoa 150 in my case with CDI FF-2 Furler)
4) Lazy Jacks to catch the sail when you lower it
5) Reefing system led to the cockpit (no need to go up to the mast to reef)

I have #3 out of your list. I believe that eventually, I'll have most of all of that list. Not having to crawl up to the mast in rough conditions would be pleasant and make my wife happier.

If we both make it to the Jacksonville MacGregor Get Together- 2011 this summer, I hope to check out your rigging and probably drool over your wheel-pilot! [ I've already been approved for enough vacation time to drag my M down to Jacksonville with my wife who has arranged her schedule. Barring early season Hurricane, we plan on being there! ]

Doug

[Doug W]

Couple of questions came to mind:

1. With the furler for the Genoa, does the jib halyard have any actual purpose?
Russell

This is a good thread which I'm very interested in. Thanks for bringing up the questions. The responses have been very helpful!

I have a Genoa on a furler and the jib halyard is extremely useful for me as an extra line to lift, pull or hold things up.. Primarily however, I use it to pull up a jib/genny sock/boot. It makes it very easy to protect the forsail anytime I stop for more than a few hours.

[vizwhiz]

I use the jib halyard for mast raising on my S boat.

Do most of you leave the reefing line at the clew in place through the mast when it's up? Does having this extra rope at the leech of the sail cause any issues as the mast/boom goes back-and-forth, or is it so far back on the sail that it doesn't interfere?

Thanks!

[vizwhiz]

Sumner has set up one-line reefing - I'd have to search for the post, but it may also be on his website where he has the modifications.