Safety on the MacGregor 26

[Newell]

I knew there would be a thread about ballasting and much about safety over this incident. Yes we should all be safe, play safe, sail safe end of statement. Here is another take on this.

This was not an accident it was an incident, it was caused by many factors. Was it unfortunate, perhaps that depends on your point of view. If it helps others to learn and avoid, then perhaps it's fortunate. If people die is that bad?

We all live, we all die. Keep it in perspective.

[mastreb]

I'm planning to build check lists with the admiral, as dennisneal noted...for our own safety of course, but also in case something happens to me and the admiral has to do things by herself, or if anyone else has to help out with the boat, that way they don't tear everything up or hurt themselves while trying to help. The plan is to make one for stepping the mast, one for starting the motor, etc. keeping them short and sweet if possible. I'm thinking of laminating them on cards, putting them on a ring so you can flip to the one you want. Haven't made them yet, but I'm working on the procedures as I go...

When you finish them, be sure to post them here as well as a template

[mastreb]

Mastreb: If its not broken dont play with it.. The system is fine.. Maybe more need to develop a check list.. I have a mental one for diving.. had a written for Winter time X country ski camping..

Sage advice. Roger is a pretty smart guy with 30 years plus experience designing these systems and the system does work well.

But in the end I'm a tinkerer and I've never been one to leave well enough alone, so I think I'll see how this one works out. I think inherent safety is a worthwhile goal--for example, something like this could make these boats safe to rent out or safe for an unfamiliar operator. If it doesn't do everything I want it's an easy mod to remove, cheap to try, and easy to validate. I'll post results when I have them.

[Ixneigh]

Re safe to rent.
Lock the ballast gate Shut at the beginning of the season and only open it to drain It at the end of the season.

[robbarnes1965]

The whole thing is very sad. It's the same story as an incident on Lake Champlain a few years ago: almost double the capacity, owner was not the skipper.

The system works as intended when used as intended. That said, I am not sure a water ballasted boat should be loaned out, especially without very clear instruction at the very least. If rented, it should have never been allowed to leave the dock with that many people. The warning is clear on my boat. The operator was plain irresponsible. The sad thing is that it bound to have somebody say how unstable a Mac is when it's a simple case of negligence.

- rob

[maryyugo]

Lake Champlain accident web site: http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html

[Divecoz]

Mastreb:
Maybe an audio alarm? Or lights at the helm? or Both

[DaveB]

The boat had 10 passengers, some of those passengers may have Autisum or Down Syndrome conditions.
I gather the Boat was a early model of the Mac.S .
That boat is rated for 6 passengers, (Manifacture) and is not rated like powerboats requireing Coast Guard certifications on a name plate.(plated on hull for limits)
One cannot speculate what happened and the type of people aboard until the final results.
You can say empty Ballast,to many people on deck,to much sails. But you are just guessing.
Please keep this open minded until the Coast Guard gives it's report (yes it will take months).
We all know what may have happened and we don't want others interested in a Mac. to have ill feelings.
I for one can say the Mac. is a excellent Coastal Cruiser comeing from 40 years of deep water Sailing from my boats and others.
You have to know your limits on a Boat as there is no one to bring you home or save you most of the time.
Dave

Yesterday, a MacGregor 26 capsized in San Diego harbor, killing two people.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011 ... -accident/
The boat was overloaded (although I've operated with as many people), with everyone above deck, and being operated as a rental boat, making it very likely that the renters did not know about the flood ballast system. The two people who died did not know how to swim according to relatives and were not wearing flotation vests according to the Coast Guard. Sadly, it was a very preventable accident.

I thought I'd start a thread to discuss the measures we take to increase safety when we boat. Please post replies here with the things you do to ensure that our boats don't capsize.

[Ixneigh]

I talked to my dealer a bit about this today. He said he knows a guy who did try to sail the M model with out the ballast. Must be from my neck of the loony bin! 
He turn the boat on it's side, where it floated happily. No water into the companionway or other hatch. The boat did not go all the way upside down due to the flotation in the mast but also could not be righted until the mast was removed. The dealer could not tell me the actual angle of tip before she will not come back.
I gather the fellow did have some additional weight in the boat though.

Ixniegh

[NiceAft]

I agree with Rob's comment;

I am not sure a water ballasted boat should be loaned out,

There is nothing inherent in knowing how to operate a ballasted boat, so common sense should not be expected. If operating a sailboat is not common knowledge, then common sense does not aply to operating one. If something is to be assumed, it's Murphy's Laws.

•If anything can go wrong, it will
•If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong
•If anything just cannot go wrong, it will anyway
~~ETC.~~

You get the idea? There is much to learn about operating a boat, and a ballasted boat, even more. They should not be loaned or rented out (if indeed it was either) without strong proof that the skipper he/she is compedent. Let's wait for the Coast Guard report before assuming any so-called facts.

By the way, I also agree with Rich when he posted

My boat does not leave the dock unless all, ALL passengers and crew are wearing a PFD. I sometimes must motor some distance to get to sailing waters, so the default position of my ballast tank valve is "closed". Even while on the trailer, the gate valve is closed, to prevent critters from making a home in the ballast tank. Wasps are especially fond of this area.

Ray



On edit: I thought I remembered a posting years ago about a sailing check list. I did a search, and found this post by Scott in 2004.

Pre Launch and Presail Checklist
Crew List_____________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Launched____________________________________
Sailed_______________________________________
1.1
Date Initials
PRE-LAUNCH CHECKLIST
1.____________ _____________ Visually check underwater hull surface and transom for any damage sustained during trucking or handling.
2.____________ _____________ Through hulls all tight and clear of any foreign objects. . Hose clamps tight.
3.____________ _____________ Seacock closed
4.____________ _____________ Check propeller retaining nut for tightness.Cotter pin in place and bent over
5.Record propeller information below:
Diameter_________________inches
Pitch____________________inches
Rotation _________________left or right hand

6. ____________ ___________Rudders swing freely side to side.
7. ____________ ___________Bilge dry.
8.____________ ___________ Bilge pump connections okay and Operational
9.____________ ____________Check hull for any chips in gel coat.
1.3
POST-LAUNCH CHECKLIST:
10.____________ ____________ Immediately after launching, check bilge for water. If water is present, Pull from water
11.____________ ____________ Open seacock and check for leaks.
12.____________ ____________ Check battery switch and electrical system operation.
13.____________ ____________ Check battery electrolyte and charge level.
14.___________ _____________ Check head operation.
15.___________ _____________ Check bilge pump operation.
1.4
ENGINE START-UP CHECKLIST
16.____________ ____________ Check engine condition.
17.____________ ____________ Check that cooling water intake is clear
18.____________ ____________ Check to see that cover is secured
19.____________ ____________ Check engine mount nuts for tightness.
20.____________ ____________ Check steering, shift and throttle cable connections.
21.____________ ____________ Check shift and throttle cable operation.
22. ____________ ____________ Completely lower unit into water
23.____________ ____________ Start engine according to the manufacturer's recommendations. Failure to start may be due to air in the fuel lines. Pump primer bulb until it is tight
24.____________ ____________ Immediately after engine starts, check to see that water is coming out of the exhaust port.
25.____________ ____________ Check gauges and/or warning lights.
26.____________ ____________ Check throttle and shift operation.
27.____________ ____________ *Report any unusual noises or vibrations to the Skipper immediately. Do not continue to run engine if any are present.


1.5
RIGGING CHECKLIST:
28.____________ ____________ Check all fasteners on spars for tightness.
29.____________ ____________ Reeve halyards.
30.____________ ____________ Attach stays, shrouds, spreaders and topping lifts.
31.____________ ____________ Check all clevis pins and cotter pins for security. Tape all potential chafe points including spreader bases and ends.
32.____________ ____________ Check wiring of combination deck and bow light. Be sure bulbs work.
33.____________ ____________ Step Mast and rigging.
34.____________ ____________ Check all rigging for length.
35.____________ ____________ Check all clevis and cotter pins for security. Be sure the locking nuts on the turnbuckles are secure. Tape all potential chafe points.
36.____________ ____________ Tune rigging to proper tensions
37.____________ ____________ Attach boom, sheets, blocks, oars, reefing lines topping lifts, etc.
38.____________ ____________ Wire mast light
1.6
MISCELLANEOUS CHECKLIST:
39.____________ ____________ Fill water tank(s) and check operation of all pumps and drains.
40.____________ ____________ Fill fuel tank
41.____________ ____________ Water test ports and hatches.
42.____________ ____________ Recheck all through hulls, valves, seacocks, hose clamps, and hoses.
43.____________ ____________ Bend on sails.
44.____________ ____________ Interior appointments complete.
45.____________ ____________ Optional equipment installed and operational.
46.____________ ____________ Owner's packet, ship's papers, and ignition key given to skipper.

[mastreb]

Another piece of perspective: There are 35,000 MacGregors out there. That's 10 to 100 times more boats than the vast majority of makes.

1:85 cars will be wrecked with fatalities. 2:35,000 for Macs. You're more than 200X safer in a Mac than in a car.

[mika]

Was it unfortunate, perhaps that depends on your point of view. If it helps others to learn and avoid, then perhaps it's fortunate. If people die is that bad?

We all live, we all die. Keep it in perspective.

Frankly, I'm somewhat aghast at these remarks, Newell. Tell me I am totally misunderstanding your meaning. Offhand, the remarks sound rather insensitive and callous. I mean, two people died. Would you be as cavalier if the dead were your family members? If THAT isn't "unfortunate", what is? "Depends on your point of view'? How can you look at it as anything but a terrible tragedy? Yeah, everybody eventually dies, but it's a serious tragedy when the death was totally unnecessary and the result of human stupidity. Did anybody else find the quoted remarks a bit off? Hey, if I am totally misunderstanding, please help me see where I misunderstood. If I'm being too hard on Newell, I apologize. I'm just trying to comprehend his remarks.

[dlandersson]

Thank you for the checklist. Pilots use them, tank commanders use them, I plan to use them.

[K9Kampers]

Was it unfortunate, perhaps that depends on your point of view. If it helps others to learn and avoid, then perhaps it's fortunate. If people die is that bad?

We all live, we all die. Keep it in perspective.

Frankly, I'm somewhat aghast at these remarks, Newell. Tell me I am totally misunderstanding your meaning. Offhand, the remarks sound rather insensitive and callous. I mean, two people died. Would you be as cavalier if the dead were your family members? If THAT isn't "unfortunate", what is? "Depends on your point of view'? How can you look at it as anything but a terrible tragedy? Yeah, everybody eventually dies, but it's a serious tragedy when the death was totally unnecessary and the result of human stupidity. Did anybody else find the quoted remarks a bit off? Hey, if I am totally misunderstanding, please help me see where I misunderstood. If I'm being too hard on Newell, I apologize. I'm just trying to comprehend his remarks.

I don't think he came across as insensitive. I saw his remark as being from a broader philosophical perspective.

[Ixneigh]

The boat was an 88 model year 26 water ballast. The guy had taken ten people on it many times before.
Only a jib up due to strong winds.
The article stated the boat capsized and sank.

Positive flotation? These boats are supposed to float even if filled. Perhaps lubberly editors equate swamping with sinking.
Structural damage. If the water tank was damaged, and flooded the bilges, the boat would go right over. Could it have come adrift from the hull bottom?

From the article I gather this was a crewed outing.
The guy was familiar with the boat. Sounds like something unusual happened.

Ixneigh.