Bad Battery?

[Chuck in SD]

I was charging up my batteries like I normally do by putting the selector switch on all and connect the charger to on of the two batteries and I got an unusual amount of sparks and the charger shut itself off. After a little trouble shooting and after disconnecting the wires to the batteries I found the problem to be in one of the batteries. It sparks when I connect the charger and the charger shuts off. Both batteries are maintanance free and the one acting up is a deep cycle whit the other is standard. I have never experienced this situation befor. Any ideas? I am thinking that I will have to replace both batteries. Any recommendations on a good replacement battery type(s)? Deep cycle? Also can anyone recommend a good automatic charger that I can leave on the batteries when not in use.

Chuck

[kmclemore]

The "BatteryMINDer" is the best battery maintainer I've ever found... I have three of them and they keep my Honda EB11000 generator, all my antique cars and my boat topped up and fresh. Not only that, but they fight sulphating of the plates by using a pulsed charge method. Some of my antique car batteries are at least 10 years old now and they still work nicely, with no evidence of sulphation. The unit comes with a 5 year warranty, too, although none of mine have ever needed service (going on 10 years now).

One nice thing is that you can charge/maintain up to 4 batteries at once with one these. That's how I do all my antique vehicles... I made a pigtail for each car and installed it under the bonnet, and when I drive them into the garage I just plug them back into the charger... I made up a split-pigtail from the charger with four plugs to match. Works a treat!

They also make a special model for Optima batteries, if you have that type.


Link to company that makes them HERE.
Link to cheapest price I could find HERE.

[craiglaforce]

I would suggest :

Isolating the suspect deep cycle battery.
checking each cell with a hydrometer.
Checking voltage.
Sounds like it has one or more shorted cells. these tests should reveal this if true. WIth a shorted cell, that cell will show much lower charge with the hydrometer and you will only read around 8 or 9 volts across the battery.

I like the new smart electronic schumaker charger I got from Walmart. It will help diagnose the battery for you and also will apply a desulphate charge to try and recover the battery capacity.

[Chuck in SD]

Thanks for the battery minder info. I have just ordered one.

Chuck

[Chuck in SD]

Voltage reads 2.4 and can not check fluid due to battery being sealed. Apparently the battery is shot. must of shorted out for some reason. The other one reads 11.6 after a short charge a few days ago. May be time to replace both. I am just wondering if I should go with the same configuration (one deep cycle and one standard) or two matching batteries of one or the other.

Chuck

[waternwaves]

Chuck, if you only have a 50 hp on board...... there is basicly no reason for a standard auto battery..... the deep cycle and marine combo bats.....will last longer with the long unattended times most boats have.

[Mark Prouty]

The "BatteryMINDer" is the best battery maintainer I've ever found... I have three of them and they keep my Honda EB11000 generator, all my antique cars and my boat topped up and fresh. Not only that, but they fight sulphating of the plates by using a pulsed charge method. Some of my antique car batteries are at least 10 years old now and they still work nicely, with no evidence of sulphation. The unit comes with a 5 year warranty, too, although none of mine have ever needed service (going on 10 years now).

One nice thing is that you can charge/maintain up to 4 batteries at once with one these. That's how I do all my antique vehicles... I've got a pigtail installed in each car under the bonnet, and when I drive them into the garage I just plug them back into the charger... I made up a split-pigtail from the charger with four plugs. Works a treat!

They also make a special model for Optima batteries, if you have that type.


Link to company that makes them HERE.
Link to cheapest price I could find HERE.

Not here is something I didn't know. I going to have to check out that batteryminder.
Sulphation is the #1 killer of batteries!

My batteries are going to be sitting a long time. Its going to be a long winter!



Thanks Kevin!

[kmclemore]

Just FYI gang... I was looking to get an additional BatteryMINDer and I discovered that Batterymart is having a sale on them which ends Dec 24. See HERE for more information.

They also now have a 15W Solar BatteryMINDer kit.. goes for $139. Perhaps a nice idea for those storing their boat in a yard or away from a mains power source?

Disclaimer: I have no connection with BMart, just passing on info.

[argonaut]

Well at least it was a good time for it to fail!

If your electrical system doesn't have a battery combiner device to make sure each battery only get's charged as much as it needs, I'd recommend using similar batteries to avoid cooking one while the other charges.

Ditto waternwaves comment, with a 50hp your starter will pull little enough starting current that two deep cycle or AGMs should do fine. My BF50 starts with a single sealed marine battery. I have dual group 24 Dekka marine batteries, the PO had installed.

If I were to do it over I'd like a pair of sealed AGMs moved forward for better weight distribution, and go a size larger to a group 27 if they'd fit, the group 24s are a little light on amp/hours.

I'm rewiring mine now for the WestMarine style dual-circuit plan using three switches scheme, I need to pull some new wire over the holidays.
Invest in a decent charger, they aren't that expensive. I looked at WallyMart for the Schumacher but mine only sold Vectors. I bought it anyway, it has three stage charging, fault diagnosis, and a high-frequency desulphating mode for like $55. It worked great for me. I thought my batteries were shot from sitting so long before I bought her, but after charging them separately on the new charger they both look good again.

I don't think it's good to let them sit for long periods, so the BM's probably a good idea.

[craiglaforce]

Argo,
Thats pretty funny because I bought mine after reading someone post here about the Vector charger. My Walmart only had the Schumacker so that's what I bought. I think they are pretty similar in what they do, except I think the Vector can be manually placed into the Desulphate mode, while mine has to decide to do this on its own based on what it reads and by using its magical brain. I think if it detects too fast a rise in battery voltage when charging, it realizes there must be a bunch of sulphates blocking the surface of the active material, and it drops into the desulphate mode for about 12 hours higher voltage pulses applied to try and break through the sulphate crystals.

Theoretically, I guess you could keep this thing hooked up all winter and it would decide when to kick on to top things off. Not sure I trust it that much yet. I have mine hanging from ropes above the battery compartment and it is always connected to the batteries, but I shut off the power supply when it is done.


Regarding those small battery trickle chargers, personally I don't care for the trickle idea. I like to hit the battery with a vigorous recharge to make sure the electrolyte gets mixed and to try to reduce sulfate formation. Plus seems a small continuous charge would be more likely to dry out the battery over time. Plus the cost of the charger seems quite high. Almost cheaper to just throw away your batteries and buy new ones. Those big Nautilus group 27 batteries are only about 45 bucks at a wholesale club.

[kmclemore]

Regarding those small battery trickle chargers, personally I don't care for the trickle idea. I like to hit the battery with a vigorous recharge to make sure the electrolyte gets mixed and to try to reduce sulfate formation. Plus seems a small continuous charge would be more likely to dry out the battery over time.

Hmm... that seems to differ with the link that Moe posted here.

"The recommended charging method using a constant voltage charger is to slowly recharge the battery using a charger sized to recharge the battery over a ten-hour period"

and...

"Size the charger based on the discharge amount and how fast you need to use the batteries again. Slow recharging is recommended, so chargers that are sized 10% of the capacity of wet, AGM or Gel Cell batteries should be used. Fast or "boost" charging batteries can kill batteries because they can warp the battery's plates."

I've always believed that the slower you can charge a battery, the longer the life of the cells.

[craiglaforce]

I agree with both of those statements. a 10% of capacity charge rate would mean about 8-10 amps for a single group 27 battery. That trickle charger thing is what about 1 amp? Thats only about a 1% charge rate.


The electrolyte chemistry can stratify over time if it is not agitated by motion or a few charging bubbles.

Anyhow, I was just stating my opinion. YMMV. I'm glad your system works for you.

I use a 15 amp smart charger on a set of 3 group 27's connected all in parallel. Seems to work well. The total amphour capacity of this bank is around 250 amphours I would guess, so I am less than 10%. Certainly not overheating or warping the plates.

[kmclemore]

I'm not suggesting anyone get "that trickle charger thing" to recharge a battery... it's made to maintain a battery charge. I use these units to keep my batteries fresh whilst my cars or boats are storage. I use a proper charger to recharge... and I use maintainers to maintain.

I was only noting that my understanding was that a 'vigorous' recharging could actually do more harm than good.

[craiglaforce]

makes sense. I leave my batteries in the boat over the winter and am amazed that they do not seem to discharge at all. I turn on the charger and it runs for a short bit until it builds the surface voltage from 12.5 to 14.4 and then shuts off. 12.5 V is what mine read when fully charged after sitting long enough to dissipate the surface charge. WHen I said vigorous I meant charging fast enough to make a few small bubbles. I didn't mean a fast charge like 50 amps or antyhing that might warp the plates.

[normo]

What model Schumacher and Vector chargers do recommend?