(Existing) ballast tank leaks resolved

[Chip]

My dealer drove up to Orlando from Cape Coral with his fiberglass repairman on Saturday. They patched up the holes in my ballast tank so that it no longer leaks. The mystery disc was a piece of fiberglass and gelcoat that my dealer attached to the tank where he had accidentally drilled into the tank. The disc was removed and new fiberglass was put in place. The through-hull transducer plug, placed in my battery compartment, was also leaking and I will seal that with 3M 4200 on my own. The other leaks, again, were patched up with new fiberglass. We did a water test and found no other leaks.

I figured that the dealer would insist on doing repairs. That's fine. I will, however, send a letter effectively tolling the one-year warranty period by making it clear that leaks were brought to his and MacGregor's attention and that no infrared or other testing was done to ensure the absence of voids or air bubbles in the non-visible parts of the tank. That way, no one can claim that the warranty has expired and that I am without relief when, 12 months from now, new leaks are found (and I hope that they aren't).

It was good of my dealer to make a special weekend trip to Orlando and I'm sure many dealers would not have done the same. If you ever have a warranty issue, be aware that the dealer definitely has an interest at stake (other than its reputation).

My dealer said that he has sold over 400 Macs and mine is the first to have ballast tank leaks. He could not say the same for other major manufacturers of trailerable sailboats. Since I have no firsthand knowledge, I won't list the names of those manufacturers.

Thanks again for everyone's input on my leaks.

Chip S.

[Kevin]

Thanks for updating us.

I know I've been anxious to hear the result.

Still time for some serious sailing before Christmas!!

[Randy Smith]

Chip, very glad to finally hear the situation is resolved. I hope your first mate will gain confidence that your mac will float, dry inside. Many happy sails, talk to you more here on the posts!!!

[Frank C]

Credit's due Macgregor for their commitment in sending two guys (basically, two full man-days) to visit you and repair the boat. Reading their record over the years, I'd have only expected their offer to fix it when you had time to bring it to the dealer. This case surprised me as somewhat unique.

The factory has seemed to exert very little control over their dealers. I guess this could be example of an especially dilligent dealer, but I'd suspect that a factory request was at work, behind the scenes. Odds that the Buzzzz on this list is contributory??? (Possibly also contributory . . . Chip's statement here that he is an attorney.)

Either way, I'll give odds that reading this forum has become somebody's job in Costa Mesa, and there's nottin' wrong wid'dat!

[DeMaster]

Mac replaced my two broken masts but I did have to haul the boat from
Tahoe to the dealer.

[Richard O'Brien]

I talked with my fibreglass supplier about your situation Chip, and he pretty well convinced me that repairs could be made that would be far stronger than the original. I looked around on the internet,and there are incidents when large holes over 1 ft. in diam. have been repaired under the waterline in large vessels, and still they went on to immeadietly sail a few thousand miles of open sea. Polyester gelcoats like our Macs often crack. they haven't the flexibility, and toughness of epoxies, and epoxy-urethane hybrids. Because of the cost carbon, kevlar epoxy lay-ups are usually reserved for racing hulls , but are used for most repairs now. Epoxies have as little as .03% shrinkage, and consequently can fiercely adhere to roughened surfaces, (2000 psi plus or minus). additionally, they have slower set times , allowing higher penetration. I know there are others on this board who might disagree with me, but talk to your repair guy. As far as voids go: one method is to drill holes at each extreme, and inject low viscosity resin into one end while the air is forced out the other. It seems like you invested an awful lot of other improvements in your M, and costs like that are pretty hard to recover, I think.

[Frank C]

I talked with my fibreglass supplier about your situation Chip, and he pretty well convinced me that repairs could be made that would be far stronger than the original. I looked around on the internet,and there are incidents when large holes over 1 ft. in diam. have been repaired under the waterline in large vessels, . . .

There's no doubt that all visible and accessible voids or holes can be adequately repaired. However, I'd be concerned that these voids are evidence of a serious quality deficiency, either materials or labor, that are more generalized on at least this one boat. What about the 40 to 50 percent of the ballast tank that's hidden and inaccessible? It was evident from his earlier postings that Chip understands this nuance. I wish him the best, in a difficult circumstance.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I have no doubt that the fiberglass repairs are better than new..although they will add some more weight to the boat...which may be offset if there was not enough material to begin with.

Adding to Frank's concern though, I would be worried that there are other "thin spots" that may not leak now but with a little bit of wear and tear could start leaking in the future. I'm sure Chip will be closely monitoring the situation. But if it were me, I wouldn't exactly be babying this boat while it is under warranty. Of course, providing he has the adequate skippering experience, take it out in some rougher waters, let it pound in some chop with full ballast, etc. This boat should be tough enough to take it. If you make it through some rough times with no leaks, it will do a lot to instill more confidence in the structure.

Now, those of us who have boats out of warranty...well, that is a bit of a different story

[Catigale]

Chip - glad to hear the progress report and hope to see some sailing posts soon!!

From what I can gather, I think your dealer handled this well and expeditiously, and we should acknowledge this on this board.

I know that there may still be a 'cloud' over your boat, but your dealers actions would bolster my confidence level that they will step up to the plate again if issues come up.

Enjoy it and keep us posted!!

Stephen

[Chip]

Thanks for the comments and encouragement.

Dimitri, I have a better idea. Why don't you and I swap boats and I'll let you test mine out on rough seas for the next six months while I drink beer and fish in a quiet cove in yours (of course, I wouldn't operate your or any other boat with a BAL over .08)? If mine springs a leak on you in the rough seas, not to worry. I have all necessary coast guard safety gear on board, including flares and a horn. Plus, as you know, my boat has positive flotation and a killer sound system which will motivate you to stay alive until help arrives.

[Catigale]

You guys in Florida could help Chip out in selling his boat to himself and the Admiral with a crew offer into heavier weather/water a couple times.

(OK, its fun to sign up other people for tasks)

[Randy Smith]

Catigale is right, go out with another boat for a few trips, get that confidence back that your beautiful M will do her job. Happy cruises! Randy

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Oh, you wouldn't like my boat Chip...no sound system built in...just a boom box...

But the buddy system is not such a bad idea. Next time there is a blow, trailer your boat over to Tampa and I'll sail behind you...ready to rescue you if the boat starts sinking... I'm always looking for an excuse to go out and my boat is moored in the bay, ready to go at any whim.

Of course, probably a 10mph wind is likely enough to make the boat pound under high power, even on a good sized lake.

Really though, come over to the FL West Coast any time...still working on an event for March and its usually good and windy then. There is definitely safety in numbers and there are already 3-4 boats interested.

[waternwaves]

hmmm,

Chip, that idea strikes a chord.........

I wonder.....is there any interest in region trading these boats for those of us that no longer like to charter bigger glass??

lets see, trade the use of mine a couple of summer weeks I am not using it up here in the islands of puget sounds for a couple of weeks in florida in the winter......hmmm or perhaps new england, or great lakes.....

this is sounding better already......lol....

Maybe this forum could have a subthread of those interested in possibly meeting others of like mind for that...... ...lol


P.S I will be watching the results of your testing. tho I note the original observations you made seemed to show more sources of water leaks.. I wonder if that could have been splash from around the inside....


well, back to work....

[Chip]

Dimitri,

Thanks for the offer and I'll definitely take you up on it. Unfortunately, I can't join the group in March because I'm taking my in-laws on a Keys trip (not with the boat) around the time of your planned trip.

Waternwaves,

Your boat sharing idea is a bad one with all of the engineers and tinkerers on this site. You'll let someone use your boat and it'll come back totally reconfigured.