Rudder Lifting & Hold-Down Lines

[TexasDan40]

I'm going to install a block pully on both of my rudder lifting lines to make it easier to raise the rudders.
I'm curious how important the hold down lines are...can they be removed without causing any problems; I'm talking about the lines that keep the rudders down in the water. Can I remove them?

Thanks for any guidance.
Tex

[Kelly Hanson East]

No, they cant. I sailed for a season before I figured this out.

If you dont use them, the rudders are pulled back and the force required to move them shoots up by as much as 5x (the difference is the centre of effort shifts backwards from the rudder pivot axis, essentially putting a much bigger lever arm on the rudder.

This increased effort will break your steering gear, cable, or something else, eventually.

[TexasDan40]

Good point.
Thanks for the info.
Tex.

[Rick Westlake]

No, they cant. I sailed for a season before I figured this out.

If you dont use them, the rudders are pulled back....

Odd, that hasn't happened to me. When I let the rudders swing down - dropping the lifting lines and letting the rudders splash - they jam-fit tight enough to stay hard down unless I ground them and kick them up. Consequently, I've left the pull-down lines slack every time I've sailed (30 days this year). I usually have to pry them back up with a boat hook, when I get to the dock.

Of course, I don't motor at high speeds with the rudders down, either....

Tex, try leaving the pull-down lines uncleated while you go sailing - and see if your rudders are pushed up & back. If they do, you'll still have the lines in place to remedy the problem. (On Bossa Nova, the line-tails are slipped under the transom chocks and secured with a figure-8 knot. I did remove my hold-down lines a couple of weeks ago, when one of them caught a crab-pot float on the West River - I hope I didn't drag it so far that the owner didn't recover it!)

[TexasDan40]

Great idea. I'll just give it a try before I remove them.
I wouldn't have them down while powering at high speeds.
Thanks for the note.
Tex

[ALX357]

If you substitute high quality bungee cord for the rudder hold-down lines, they will allow the rudders to kick up temporarily when grounding, limited to what rise is necessay, but re-set into full functionality when there is depth enough for them. This is so much better than letting them hang loose, or cleating them tight. If cleated tight, something will have to break when grounded, and if loose, they will not reset automatically after being free.
I previously used one of those cleats that snaps loose, but it did not have the ability to reset itself, as the bungee function does.
I find it so usefull, that it amazes me it is not a a standard factory installation, and not done by every owner either.

[Paul S]

I was inspired by an X when I came up with this mod. The kick up cleats are neat!

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1075

[Paul S]

I was inspired by an X when I came up with this mod. The kick up cleats are neat!

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1075

[TexasDan40]

Alx357... I like the bungie idea. Will definately make that mod.

PaulS...I just finished reading your mod. I like it. May be a little complicated for me. There was another simple design I think I'll try:

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/index.php?view=872


Thank you both for responding.
Tex

[Paul S]

It is pretty much the same mod, I just added pop up cleats and v-cleats.

It is imperative that the rudders are locked down otherwise the steering is tough and can damage the steering rack.

Whether they are locked down with bungees or the kick up cleat, they must be locked down

[delevi]

Take it from a guy who has broken a few rudders. Don't remove the hold-down lines. Use them. Getting the brackets tight is good... reduces the slop, but without a hold-down, they can kick up when you least expect. The rudder can break, or worse the steering system can damage because the load of a rudder that is trailing is massive. I'm not crazy about the idea of a bungee, but it's better than nothing. I also have blocks on mine... don't see why the hold-down lines would need to be removed. I installed a couple of cam cleats and use those for the hold-down lines, while the factory horn cleats hold the uphaul lines. Also, it's a good idea not to leave any of these lines slack, regardless of the rudder position, otherwise you risk the line getting caught in the prop... of course, when you least expect it.

fair winds,
Leon

[TexasDan40]

Many thanks Leon. Sound advice.
Thanks again Paul. Greatly appreciated.
Te

[March]

Another thing that is likely to happen if you remove the hold-down lines is, the blades will get into the propellor's way if you turn hard right or left. The blades have to be all the way down in order to clear the propellor. Happened to me twice--couldn't figure out how I nicked the rudder blades at that point.

[ALX357]

When using the bungee hold-down rudder lines mod, I recommend you get a few stainless steel "hog rings" which are clips that you crimp around the bungees like cable clamps, to fasten a loop in the end that goes thru the rudder at the bottom. Knots in the bungee cord do not hold very well, and make a large blob on the side of the rudder. There is not alot of distance clearance between the rudder and fairlead on the transom, so there is no room for a shackle and you have to put a fastener or knot anyway, so I do recommend the hog rings. Just pass the bungee cord end thru the rudder hole, and then back along the bungee, place two hog rings per rudder. West Marine will show you how this looks if you have not seen them, but actually most made up bungee cords with hooks on the ends are factory made with hog rings inside the wound ends of the hooks, so you can check them out that way.

The bungee tension can be stretched a bit to provide complete hold-down pressure on the rudders for any sailing purposes, but allow mud, rocks, logs, etc. to kick them up. Sailing control will be restored as soon as is possible, as opposed to a cleat that completely releases the rudder. If you clear the mud or sand bar, or whatever kicks the rudders up, and are then sailing clear again, but your rudders are not reset, you are likely to break them, and steering forces are going to be hard to control. IF motoring slow, you have to be careful not to allow the rudders get afoul of the prop when they are dangling backwards and swinging wide.

[ALX357]

When using the bungee hold-down rudder lines mod, I recommend you get a few stainless steel "hog rings" which are clips that you crimp around the bungees like cable clamps, to fasten a loop in the end that goes thru the rudder at the bottom. Knots in the bungee cord do not hold very well, and make a large blob on the side of the rudder. There is not alot of distance clearance between the rudder and fairlead on the transom, so there is no room for a shackle and you have to put a fastener or knot anyway, so I do recommend the hog rings. Just pass the bungee cord end thru the rudder hole, and then back along the bungee, place two hog rings per rudder. West Marine will show you how this looks if you have not seen them, but actually most made-up bungee cords with hooks on the ends are factory made with hog rings inside the wound ends of the hooks, so you can check them out that way.

The bungee tension can be stretched a bit to provide complete hold-down pressure on the rudders for any sailing purposes, but allow mud, rocks, logs, etc. to kick them up. Sailing control will be restored as soon as is possible, as opposed to a cleat that completely releases the rudder. If you clear the mud or sand bar, or whatever kicks the rudders up, and are then sailing clear again, but your rudders are not reset, you are likely to break them, and steering forces are going to be hard to control. IF motoring slow, you have to be careful not to allow the rudders get afoul of the prop when they are dangling backwards and swinging wide.

There are available some cleats that work best with bungee cords ... the cleats are like jam cleats, but have a row of them on one base, and the cord or line is wound in a M pattern thru the cleat, being jammed at each horn or turn. You do not have to loop the free end under, or turn the line under to get tight fastening, just lace the line back and forth and let the end drop free.